First Look: Extensible Firmware Interface

Originally Posted by Woodstock
if apple use EFI how can xp boot with boot camp

Bootcamp fakes the bios, like VMWare has a fake bios in it

This is because they are just abstracting the hardware, so you never really need access to the bios (which, for the OS, basically just lists IO devices)

Originally Posted by Koradhil
Just slipstream the SATA/RAID drivers into your Windows installation CD with nLite, then you won't need a floppy drive.

Yeah, or just put a floppy in the drive? isn't that easier?

Originally Posted by choupolo
Sorry, I also dont see the point of this. Useful to make BIOS options more intuitive yes, but who needs an OS and then a mini-OS for the BIOS as well. No need for the games or instant messenger etc. I want my BIOS to start my PC and thats it (which it already does), I can rely on the normal OS for everything else thanks.

EFI still starts your computer fine, in fact, it should be faster then the bios

Originally Posted by Ramble
Why? What is the point? I jsut want the fastest, most stable thing to get my computer running that supports overclocking options. That is it, I don't want to stream media using a BIOS.

EFI is going to be that thing, The greatest advantage with EFI is the fact its much easier to program, its actually very hard (and slow) to program a bios

The problem these days is the amount of rubbish inside your computer
You have USB, Firewire, Ethernet, serial, printer (maybe) PCI and PCI-E busses, Not to mention the Hard Drive issues

Things like booting a USB Stick are still incredibly flaky, and hard to do, some bioses wont even recognise certain USB devices
Hell some don't even have proper USB keyboard support (and im talking <1yr old mobo's here)

EFI should help with _a lot_ of issues, making the bios look fancy isn't the aim, the aim is to simplify, and enhance (and expand) on an archaic, and inefficient system

Go look at a P2 bios, then look at a modern day bios, you will notice the massively vast number of settings on a modern motherboard
But look at how we are now getting stability problems, coding and testing bios's is just too much money these days

Originally Posted by metarinka
I could almost see a dual use, where in the morning if I don't want to wait the min+ for my computer to boot, i could quickly log on and check my e-mail. I was wondering why it took bioses soo long to get with the times and upgrade the old school menu is about the least user friendly thing.

well, you could just ... dare i say it ... leave the computer on - then you don't have to worry about it!!!


as far as I'm concerned, motherboards with built in sata drivers - considering they GIVE you a disk with the motherboard would be nice. and universal USB support is nifty. using a mouse? quite convenient. but having all kinds of media and extras is quite over the edge of usefulness. unless you were too shady to buy an OS or download a free one, why do you own a computer to begin with. a bios is made to boot the hardware and apply simple configurations to apply to the hardware - ie: clock speeds, boot order, system time, startup passwords, enable\disable on board components. the real operating system is what has been implemented to interface with the computer, the bios is merely a loading program.

sure, it would be nice if they updated it with a universal standard much like how they set definitions for ATX and AT and all those other branches of case standards - imo - thats all thats needed. and maybe a manufacturer specific area so they can feel nifty. because standard support for all new age and ON BOARD devices would be excellent. so if a motherboard comes with USB2.0 - it works in the bois, if it comes with firewire, bluetooth, lan, sound, video - anything built into the motherboard as far as I\O - it will work in the bios. not that there is a need for bluetooth in the bios, but in my oppinion, if it comes with the computer, it should work weather you have a driver CD or not.

thats just my 2 cents.

I've covered a lot of this in the past here. The problem I see in this thread is that a lot of people are confusing the UI with BIOS. That set of screen you get to using del/f1/f2/etc is essentally optional. A BIOS could be written such that you don't need this, or that the settings could even be loaded from something like a floppy.
There is a lot more to BIOS than that. The problem is that most of it is totally worthless past a certain stage of the OS load process. It is basically just taking up space.
Take the interrupt vector table as an example, it's worthless once the OS enters protected mode or long mode. The e820 table is still useful, to some degree, but everything esle outside of the ACPI tables is debatable. Things like the PCI routing table and MP tables may still be useful, but it is redundant to an OS that understands ACPI. Thbe only other thing there really is left after that is the system management interrupt (SMI) and it's not the most welcome thing in the OS space.

EFI is essentially a hardware abstraction layer providing services that will hopefully prove to be more useful for longer than BIOS and function across a wide range of platforms. It is an API that is independent of hardware with a standards body behind it. The pretty graphics may be nice, but it is not what EFI is all about. It is a demo put together by MSI for a wizz-bang effect and no one should read too much into it.

The real power is that the interface used to display those graphics in not tied to a video card, some clever programing could send those graphics just about anywhere, and that is just the tip of the iceberg. Other pats of the interface will allow for better integration of of the BIOS on things like RAID adapters with the system once they start being built for EFI.

And despite all this, it is still plenty capable of doing it's thing fast, and getting out of the way.

I've been working with a derivative of the Tiano core for about 2 years now. I'm by no means an expert, but I can try to answer specific questions.

Originally Posted by DougEdey


But

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goos1e
As far as i know... there are hardly any games out that even work on 64-bit(might be wrong and haven't heard of some tho)

Erm...What planet are you on? Almost all games work on 64 bit, only really old ones have some difficulties, but not a lot of people use them.

yeah sorry.. i know you can run most new games on 64 bit. (Crysis for ex.). i actually meant something more like: require and still... only a few afaik run stable (not having to download patches etc.)

And errrm... no i still think that there are hardly any games that "RUN" under 64bit... geeez its even a pain in the backside to get the O/S up and running (windoze) Again.. it might be just me... but having to deal with all these problems..(driver compatibility issues and the kind) doesn't fall into my category of having a system "running". But this isn't the topic here

then again... they are working on it..

but they (as in PC Industry) keep bringing new crap out to the market without havin one thing completely developed...
anyone know what happend to BTX?

I just think this is another "Fancy-must-have" gimmick they have "invented" again to cash in

I hav elearned a long time ago that BIOS stands for something like: (B)asic (I)nput + (O)utput (S)ystem

Is it now gonna be like a (B)uilt (I)n (O)perating (S)ystem?

Originally Posted by [USRF
Obiwan]We go to the moon and back, have ultraspeed quad processors, super HD 3D gaming, Flatscreen HD LCD monitors, Copper heatpippes on the motherboard, Solid state capicators, terrabyte drives, 1200Watt PSU's, Triple and quad Videocard options, multiscreen views, fast sata connectors, highspeed bluray/HD-dvd drives, 32GB memorysticks, ultrathin flashdrives, Warning led indictations all over the motherboard, Flashy lcd readout, 20 highspeed USB connectors, Linked Gigabit ethernetm external sata connectors, Bluetooth connectivity, wifi wireless connections, HD 7.1 sound with optical connectors, a keyboard with Oled or laserguided keys, weird looking mind/gesture controlable things and multitouch interfaces.



...And still they put a floppydisc connector on the motherboard...

i have never lol'ed so much, why can't they just let floppydisc die ffs >_<!

so in theory a 32bit windows, efi spoof program could be made

Originally Posted by r3Q

Quote:

Originally Posted by metarinka
I could almost see a dual use, where in the morning if I don't want to wait the min+ for my computer to boot, i could quickly log on and check my e-mail. I was wondering why it took bioses soo long to get with the times and upgrade the old school menu is about the least user friendly thing.

well, you could just ... dare i say it ... leave the computer on - then you don't have to worry about it!!!

Or if you turn it off to save power, just put it in standby? It takes ~2-3 seconds for my laptop to go into standby and about 3-4 seconds to get out of it. That's even faster than cold booting.

Just slipstream the SATA/RAID drivers into your Windows installation CD with nLite, then you won't need a floppy drive.

I use Vista now so the point is moot for me. I upgraded to 4gb of RAM and didn't want the nightmare of XP x64, so I went from 32bit XP to 64bit Vista Ultimate. Thank f*cking god I can now use a cd or flash drive to give the windows installer the RAID drivers. I don't even have a working floppy drive anymore.

The main point for EFI is because BIOS really wasn't meant for doing what it currently is. It has just been expanded and hacked into what we currently have. And has been said before, BIOS coders are really becoming a rarity these days. EFI is a natural evolution, and is desperately needed by the industry (even if this doesn't appear to be the case to the users). no support for the 32-bit versions of windows will hurt uptake quite a bit, but now that i think of it, the servers and mac's using EFI are 64-bit already anyway (maybe its an actual limitation to EFI support with the OS?)
The point for having these extra applications in your EFI is because its -much- quicker to load it up than wait for your OS to load...anyone who runs linux off of flash can attest to this, and having to wait 5+ minutes for windows to load just to watch movies stored on another computer, show some friends some photos or even just check your email is painful (assuming your the type that doesn't leave their PC on from the time you get up to when you go to sleep...which i don't think is anyone here)
Finally, Vista (or XP) x64 has no problem running 32-bit applications and works quite well tyvm. however, there are few applications written specifically to take advantage of the 64-bit processing (partly because most users are still running 32-bit, and there isn't much point to it for general office apps), and many device developers are a bit slack on delivering drivers, particularly for older hardware (and by older, i mean anything more than a year or so old!)

Originally Posted by Woodstock
so in theory a 32bit windows, efi spoof program could be made

This should be handled by the compatability support module according to the EFI stuff. No spoofing required.

Originally Posted by r3Q
but having all kinds of media and extras is quite over the edge of usefulness

So don't use them? There are the odd few things in your bios your probably don't use, the new asus boards with Linux also give you these option programs

Just because the features are there, doesn't mean you have to use them, it doesn't slow your computer down, and they could come in useful occasionally