bit-tech.net

Nvidia Talks 3D Vision

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proxess 24th May 2011, 08:11 Quote
Wow love the Elsa glasses!
BRAWL 24th May 2011, 08:38 Quote
*sigh* When you're paying £300+ for a decent graphics card, then christ knows how much for the monitor/tv, I don't wanna' be seeing the 3D glasses "ON SALE NOW!" for £84.99 (think this was on OCUK yesterday). As I said about AMD's 3D thread and article yesterday, nausea, headaches and motion sickness aren't something I suffer with until you give me 3D glasses to wear.

"Is it just a fad?" Yes. Will we all want to play normal games again soon, yes.
Ajhayter 24th May 2011, 09:29 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRAWL
*sigh* When you're paying £300+ for a decent graphics card, then christ knows how much for the monitor/tv, I don't wanna' be seeing the 3D glasses "ON SALE NOW!" for £84.99 (think this was on OCUK yesterday). As I said about AMD's 3D thread and article yesterday, nausea, headaches and motion sickness aren't something I suffer with until you give me 3D glasses to wear.

"Is it just a fad?" Yes. Will we all want to play normal games again soon, yes.

Well that's the great thing about 3D. You want to play games normally? Just turn it off, or don't buy a 3D setup.

I appreciate that you have issues with the 3D system (aforementioned nausea e.t.c.), but I think within the next 2-3 years it will become very economical to do 3D in the home. Who knows, maybe they will invent a head tracking system via something like Kinekt and incorporate 3D into that.
Paradigm Shifter 24th May 2011, 09:36 Quote
Not supporting DisplayPort because not much uses it yet is like saying back in the late 90's that they wouldn't support DVI because most people still use analogue CRTs.
azrael- 24th May 2011, 09:51 Quote
Quote:
"I remember when people said that things like anti-aliasing, tessellation and shader would be niche for game developers, and all those technologies have sort of become the default."
As far as I know none of these technologies were ever considered "niche". Rather, they've never really come into play (until now?) because of crappy console ports.
JCBeastie 24th May 2011, 10:00 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajhayter
Who knows, maybe they will invent a head tracking system via something like Kinekt and incorporate 3D into that.

There's an iPad app called i3D that uses face recognition to track your head and calculate its position, it then renders a 3d scene using what it assumes is your perspective. It actually works very well and in my opinion is the best way to make games 'feel' more 3 dimensional. This has the bonus of allowing you to move your head to see around objects but also it allows you to experience 3d with say; one eye, as it's actually still 2d.

I have a real issue with needing to wear glasses to see in 3d, it just doesn't work; it's not comfortable and due to the way they function not ideally suited for everyone.

Gaming is a medium that can work very well in 3d. Due to real-time rendering the perspective can change as you move. Movies on the other hand are very bad in 3d, as certain parts of what is essentially a flat image (or more technically, 2 images) have to be given depth; the result looks like a pop-up book with flat planes at different levels.

My personal opinion is that 2d is just great; we live our lives seeing the world in 3d; it's really nothing special. 2d is basically a unique experience and we get the liberty to choose which element of the image we want to look at, instead of a focal point jumping out at us because the designers wanted it that way...

Basically, 3d with glasses is bad, 3d displays without eye-wear could be good. Movies in 3d are bad, but games in 3d could be good.
leveller 24th May 2011, 10:00 Quote
Good read with a brew, cheers BT.

The best bit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nvidia
You also get a wider viewing angle with active shutter glasses, which has its benefits if you find yourself looking around. We're also designing our 3D Vision monitors with this 120Hz technology, which has benefits when you're not using 3D – you get the a really fast response time at 120Hz, so if you just want to do 2D you get an incredibly smooth gaming experience, and you simply don't get that with passive monitors today.

Now all I need is Dell to push out a 30" 120hz (minimum) 3D monitor so I can play Portal 2 again in full 3D ... mmmm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCBeastie
there's actually an iPad app called i3D that uses face recognition to track your head and calculate its position, it then renders a 3d scene using what it assumes is your perspective. It actually works very well and in my opinion is the best way to make games 'feel' more 3 dimensional.

I installed that yesterday. It works, kind of, but the 3D depth is not there. It just felt like recreated 3D in 2D with a gyroscope-like control method.
r3loaded 24th May 2011, 10:28 Quote
If the push for 3D results in a 120Hz IPS monitor being available on the market, I'm all for it.
tonyd223 24th May 2011, 10:31 Quote
3D is coming whether we like it or not - and as it's still early days, it will get better and cheaper over time.

Think I posted that exact line on a dial-up bullettin board 20 years ago about DVD, wireless, (insert tech here)...
RichCreedy 24th May 2011, 10:50 Quote
i played wipeout hd in 3d on my playstation, and it's awesome, although it does take a little getting used to
shigllgetcha 24th May 2011, 11:10 Quote
Quote:
somewhere in the middle. I you look at the data

I think this should be if
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doubling from year to year, and will probably to continue to double in sales until about 2014

I think theres an extra to in this sentance
Unknownsock 24th May 2011, 11:12 Quote
Quote:
In fact, the core gaming audience is getting more excited about 3D in some cases than SLI.

Did i just read this right? People..actually..get..excited..about S.L.I.?
BRAWL 24th May 2011, 11:13 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajhayter
Well that's the great thing about 3D. You want to play games normally? Just turn it off, or don't buy a 3D setup.

I appreciate that you have issues with the 3D system (aforementioned nausea e.t.c.), but I think within the next 2-3 years it will become very economical to do 3D in the home. Who knows, maybe they will invent a head tracking system via something like Kinekt and incorporate 3D into that.

If they got rid of the nausea and headache issues for 99% of consumers then I could see it as a truly viable option. But until then, well I'll happily go without... i'll probably go without anyway as seeing 3D on a 2D screen while IRL is 3D just makes it seem... well odd!
Quote:
dial-up

Sir... we don't mention that round these parts *raises pitchfork* ;)
kylew 24th May 2011, 12:13 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unknownsock
Did i just read this right? People..actually..get..excited..about S.L.I.?


I believe he believes they do! :D
PureSilver 24th May 2011, 12:58 Quote
To be honest, I don't think 3D is going to replace 2D until proper 3D displays arrive - and by that, I mean displays where your eye can focus in the perceived depth plane (unlike current 3D, which no matter how shallow or deep you are looking, requires focus on the screen itself). Prototype holographic displays exist (currently only in one colour, though) so I say we'll get there eventually...
[WP@]WOLVERINE 24th May 2011, 13:08 Quote
This a textbook example of worthless tech that nobody asked for but somehow the manufacturers are trying to convince us that we cant live without it. Sorry but if i want a headache i rather drink heavily the day before because that gives me a IRL experience and costs alot less!!!
feathers 24th May 2011, 13:08 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRAWL
*sigh* When you're paying £300+ for a decent graphics card, then christ knows how much for the monitor/tv, I don't wanna' be seeing the 3D glasses "ON SALE NOW!" for £84.99 (think this was on OCUK yesterday). As I said about AMD's 3D thread and article yesterday, nausea, headaches and motion sickness aren't something I suffer with until you give me 3D glasses to wear.

"Is it just a fad?" Yes. Will we all want to play normal games again soon, yes.

I have used active shutter 3d since 2004 at least on PC and have never had nausea or headaches. It sounds to me like you have underlying medical issues.
feathers 24th May 2011, 13:11 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by PureSilver
To be honest, I don't think 3D is going to replace 2D until proper 3D displays arrive - and by that, I mean displays where your eye can focus in the perceived depth plane (unlike current 3D, which no matter how shallow or deep you are looking, requires focus on the screen itself). Prototype holographic displays exist (currently only in one colour, though) so I say we'll get there eventually...

I agree. This hardware is only now getting going in a big way and I think the next 10 years will see it refined and perfected enormously. Having used the old Elsa Revelator shutter glasses over many years though I have no problems using it even as it is now. I don't mind wearing glasses but of course look forward to to the day auto-stereoscopic displays are as natural on the eye as 2d (nothing natural about 2d since we are born with 3d vision).
the_kille4 24th May 2011, 13:35 Quote
i thought DVI would be phased out... I remember reading an bit-tech article about that...
alialias 24th May 2011, 14:11 Quote
a displayport to dvi adaptor for $100?
Xir 24th May 2011, 14:31 Quote
Hmmm, we shall see, I'm not convinced...then again they really pinpointed me with:
Quote:
they remember the days of Elsa Revelator glasses and they say: 'Oh I saw it, it was horrible and it was no good.'
:D
I can second that, it WAS no good, but not for the reasons they state ;)
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Nvidia, bringing out its 3D Vision kits back in 2008
Nope...2000 (as they state later in the article)
Quote:
Originally Posted by feathers
I have used active shutter 3d since 2004 at least on PC and have never had nausea or headaches. It sounds to me like you have underlying medical issues.
I've used revelator glasses, and it did cause Nausea in three out of three users sooner or later.
Of course, back then we used CRT tubes at either 120Hz or 140Hz, which both resulted lower than 75Hz per eye that I usually set as a lower limit for CRT's.
Now for TFT's
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We then take those two images, send them to a monitor running at 120Hz
so only 60Hz per eye left from these 120Hz, and thats not a lot (though standart for many TFT's, might work.)
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but the reality was that it didn't work well. There wasn't really a strong motivation to partner together and produce a high quality experience where the glasses worked great with the display and the drivers worked properly, so it kind of all failed.
Setup was very simple though, high quality CRT+revelator+driver+game (Half-Life 1). Easy as pie, but a horrible experience none the less.
Quote:
If I said you'd be playing with a plastic guitar in your living room, ... But Guitar Hero was one of the best-selling games ever
Guitar hero as the "it's not a Fad" arguement....right after Guitar Hero has been abandoned (because it was a fad) :D
feathers 24th May 2011, 15:25 Quote
I get the feeling a large percentage of people here will complain about any PC tech that is different from what they're used to. I know some people who spew/vomit/hurl if they play any 3d game that isn't counter-strike source. I suspect some of you spew for any old reason.

Nothing sadder than someone playing a plastic guitar. I guess those who spew at every opportunity would have spewed whilst playing guitar hero too? (too much sickness inducing motion).
leveller 24th May 2011, 15:38 Quote
What about if they were using WiiFit, while wearing 3D glasses and playing a plastic guitar? ;)
feathers 24th May 2011, 16:18 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by leveller
What about if they were using WiiFit, while wearing 3D glasses and playing a plastic guitar? ;)

There would be even more spewing. A big spewey mess.
Waynio 24th May 2011, 16:29 Quote
It's something I'd have to have a demo of before considering, it costs a bit & requires double the performance so need beefy gpu or sli & my gtx 580 can struggle with the odd game on max settings, so yeah it's an even more expensive way of gaming to me, but still I'd like to experience it to see if it does make the experience far more awesome.
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