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MSI NGTX275 Lightning Review

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[PUNK] crompers 31st August 2009, 13:36 Quote
looks like a decent option at the moment, personally though i think the GT200 cooler is just very good, and 3rd party solutions really need to cost the same amount to compete
CrapBag 31st August 2009, 13:40 Quote
Wasn't this known as the twin Frozr before or is that a different animal with the same cooler.
greigaitken 31st August 2009, 14:12 Quote
guys i think this is the best tech site in the world, but please please update the games you use for the benchmarks. Did you play any of those games last week?, did your readers play those games last week? i doubt it.
Bindibadgi 31st August 2009, 14:37 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by greigaitken
guys i think this is the best tech site in the world, but please please update the games you use for the benchmarks. Did you play any of those games last week?, did your readers play those games last week? i doubt it.

We had a meeting for updates last week including drivers and games. At the moment we're just running through all the content already reviewed and ready to go live.

Crysis and CoD5 are still the most popular pages, a lot of people still play Fallout 3 because of DLC and it uses a different engine too. STALKER is a DirectX 10/10.1 game that's highly demanding, typically more ATI biased than Nvidia but that just evens things out generally. And finally Far Cry 2 is just real easy to run, but will be dropped shortly.

What other good games have there been? We don't update week by week because it's infeasible to retest everything, and the games are carefully selected to give a variety of engines, with the ability to provide customised and consistent benchmark results, as well as ease of testing on our part too.
MaverickWill 31st August 2009, 14:45 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maybe Bindibadgi"
Crysis and CoD5 will cripple naff cards and sort the wheat from the chaff, a lot of people still play Fallout 3 because it's awesome and Liam Neeson's in Oblivion with guns! STALKER is a DirectX 10/10.1 game that's highly demanding, typically more ATI biased than Nvidia but that just evens things out generally. And finally Far Cry 2 is like watching a barrel of sepia-tinted mud hit the screen, so will be dropped shortly, thank goodness!

Is that what you were aiming for, Bindi?

Please don't hurt me... :(
Paradigm Shifter 31st August 2009, 14:45 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by greigaitken
guys i think this is the best tech site in the world, but please please update the games you use for the benchmarks. Did you play any of those games last week?, did your readers play those games last week? i doubt it.

I'm still playing Fallout 3 and STALKER... community mods make a game. I'll admit that since I completed the maps in the Intel Crysis Mapping Competition I've not touched Crysis, but it's still arguably one of the more stressful games around.

I could see your point if the games being used were things like F.E.A.R, but Bit has managed to keep a fairly well balanced mix for it's benchmarks over the years. It's also important to be able to compare between cards by using the same benches for as long as possible.

But hey, what games would you suggest instead? ;)
Bindibadgi 31st August 2009, 14:48 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaverickWill
Is that what you were aiming for, Bindi?

Please don't hurt me... :(

Generally, yes

ARMA 2 and Batman maybe on the cards, as well as an RTS and the latest CoD when that arrives too. We've got to test their strength in consistent benchmarks first though :)
Panos 31st August 2009, 14:56 Quote
I don't see it's point to be honest for this card at the moment.

When a 4890 goes for around £127 inc VAT (overclocked versions <£150) and costs twice as much without providing enough power......
Also why these old ATI drivers is being used since there are 9.8 out, and 9.4 are being used. Or 185.xx instead of 190.xx
greigaitken 31st August 2009, 14:57 Quote
I'm not saying dont use any of those games, and i do agree you gotta use a variety of engines.
I'm sure arma 2 would be a very popular choice,and personally i'd love it if gta 4 was included because it chugs along like tractor with 3 punctures. Once a game gets above 60fps, i'm not too bothered if it prefers ati or nvidia. i'm more interested in the games hovering around 25 - 30fps since thats where the difference matters.
Bindibadgi 31st August 2009, 15:01 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Panos
I don't see it's point to be honest for this card at the moment.

When a 4890 goes for around £127 inc VAT (overclocked versions <£150) and costs twice as much without providing enough power......
Also why these old ATI drivers is being used since there are 9.8 out, and 9.4 are being used. Or 185.xx instead of 190.xx

We've just running through stuff already reviewed and in our engine. We've one more on older drivers this week but it doesn't invalidate the results because they are all consistent - they just aren't as current as humanly possible. New drivers are being updated for new stuff this month but it requires a lot of background re-testing which takes significant time. :)

GTA4 I think we've tried before but afaik it was largely inconsistent and GFWL ****ed it up more than we could bare.
perplekks45 31st August 2009, 15:09 Quote
But... but... I just wanted to whine about new drivers and games!!! :|

As long as the base is consistent it doesn't matter much, does it?
Sure 9.8/190.xx might be faster/have more optimizations and profiles/are just newer [therefor better?] but I doubt that you would want to be the one re-testing every old card and their respective overclocked models just because nVidia just dropped the 3rd driver in as many days.

Great review, slightly too expensive yet impressive card. I'll wait for DX11 cards and i5 though. October 22nd Win 7 arrives here in a neat box and I'll start planning what to buy around Christmas. ;)
frontline 31st August 2009, 15:29 Quote
I think the mix of games and engines has been great for review purposes. Even games on Valve's orange box engine are relevant as they are still played regularly. If anything it highlights the need for developers to get the right balance between gameplay and graphics, especially when top of the range systems are struggling to get consistently playable frame-rates at times.
Nature 31st August 2009, 16:06 Quote
Please test Crysis on very high like you used to.
Bindibadgi 31st August 2009, 16:16 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by frontline
I think the mix of games and engines has been great for review purposes. Even games on Valve's orange box engine are relevant as they are still played regularly. If anything it highlights the need for developers to get the right balance between gameplay and graphics, especially when top of the range systems are struggling to get consistently playable frame-rates at times.

We tried HL2 for Left4Dead but Valve consistently updates the engine so it makes it impossible to benchmark. :( Not to mention the face it's a dumb timedemo and not really indicative of realworld gameplay.
MaverickWill 31st August 2009, 17:21 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by perplekks45
As long as the base is consistent it doesn't matter much, does it?
Sure 9.8/190.xx might be faster/have more optimizations and profiles/are just newer [therefor better?] but I doubt that you would want to be the one re-testing every old card and their respective overclocked models just because nVidia just dropped the 3rd driver in as many days.

That's a thought - could you not have a purpose-built PC with the side off, so every time you go to review a card, you just cram it in the box, run an hour or 2 of tests, then run with either-side-of-it ATI and nVidia cards, should a new driver be available? (ie if you were reviewing a 4870 1GB and Catalyst 9.8/Forceware 193.xx just got released, use a 4850 1GB/4890, and a GTX260/275). You can have both drivers installed on a Vista system (I should know - at one point, I was forever switching cards from ATI to nVidia and back) - just you can't use both at the same time.

Or even 2 hard drives in the case - one marked Catalyst, one marked Forceware.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nature
Please test Crysis on very high like you used to.

I'd kinda like this too. It's nice to see what's possible with ALL the bells and whistles on, as opposed to just most of them.
TSR2 31st August 2009, 17:35 Quote
It doesn't matter if the games are not the latest, as long as there hasn't been a massive revolution in game engine design. The main point of the game benchmarks is to provide a real-world indication, hence the use of well-known games, so if you're looking to upgrade your card you can simply look at the framerates for yours against those for the one you are looking at. If bit-tech changed the games, that comparison would be less relevant and easy.
B1GBUD 31st August 2009, 19:10 Quote
There are 2 of the same Far Cry 2 charts
Wolfe 31st August 2009, 22:15 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by article

Amongst the long list of tweaks and refinements you'd find over and above that on a stock GTX 260 were solid state iron choke capacitors

...What?

That sentence doesn't even make sense. There is no such thing as a choke capacitor. That's 100% pure marketing BS.
Combatus 31st August 2009, 22:29 Quote
Sorry that should have been solid state iron chokes and all solid capacitors. The chokes certainly aren't marketing BS however, they really do stop the aweful squealing ;)
Ta10n 1st September 2009, 00:00 Quote
Quote:
The box again features the F-35 Lightning II but as we alluded to last time, we suspect this is to take advantage of the cool sounding name and striking silhouette of a modern warplane rather than Lockheed Martin (who make the F-35) adding its expertise to the equation. In addition, the F-35 is famous for its ability to take off vertically rather than being particularly fast or manoeuvrable. Inside it is a PCI-E to molex power adapter, HDMI cable, DVI to HDMI adapter and a DVI to D-Sub adapter along with an SPDIF audio cable for HDCP compatibility.

Which is all well and good, but the aircraft on the box art is in fact an F-22 Raptor (the YF-22 prototype to be specific) , which is quite fast and extremely agile. Sorry for being today's aircraft nazi
Lizard 1st September 2009, 00:17 Quote
Does that meant this graphics card will also crash if it passes over the International Date Line? :)
Ta10n 1st September 2009, 02:19 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizard
Does that meant this graphics card will also crash if it passes over the International Date Line? :)

No, but if it crosses at more than 87 mph then it will go back in time..... and destroy ATI
Wolfe 1st September 2009, 04:32 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Combatus
Sorry that should have been solid state iron chokes and all solid capacitors. The chokes certainly aren't marketing BS however, they really do stop the aweful squealing ;)

Sorry, there's still no thing as solid state chokes. It's still marketing BS.

There are a number of measures that can prevent Magnetostriction from causing inductors in switch-mode power supplies from producing audible noise, and it's possible (or probable) that they've implemented one (or more) of those. However, promulgating faux electrical terminology only serves to confuse people tho know what they're dealing with, and misinform people who don't.

Sorry for being such a pedant, but this sort of thing bothers me a lot.
Bindibadgi 1st September 2009, 08:11 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfe
Sorry, there's still no thing as solid state chokes. It's still marketing BS.

Instead of there being a little bar of iron/ferrite on the inside the whole thing is iron/ferrite coating the coils within. It was just hard to describe :(
[USRF]Obiwan 1st September 2009, 09:56 Quote
i wish they start to do something on the idle power state of video cards. Why do they have so much idle power consumption. for normal desktop operations it should not use more then 30 to 50 watts. My guess is that 75% of the time pc's are running in desktop mode.
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