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DirectX 10: The Future of PC Gaming

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Da_Rude_Baboon 1st December 2006, 10:09 Quote
Does vista use DirectX 9 for DirectX 9 games, or does it have emulate it because of the new driver model and suffer a perfomance hit as a result?
Tim S 1st December 2006, 10:41 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Da_Rude_Baboon
Does vista use DirectX 9 for DirectX 9 games, or does it have emulate it because of the new driver model and suffer a perfomance hit as a result?
There's a modified version of DirectX 9, known as DirectX 9Ex - this is used for the Aeroglass 3D desktop and is also used in DirectX 9 games. Early Vista drivers are slow (when compared to Windows XP drivers) but the hardware vendors are focusing on stability rather than performance right now - performance will continue to improve over time.
nemetho 1st December 2006, 10:43 Quote
As I know some of these "new driver model features" are already implemented on Linux and other UNIX-like systems for a long time.
A few years ago very basic things did not work on windows such as switching back to the desktop while playing games. When Microsoft came out with Windows XP we had to "say farewell" some "older" games. Now game creators have to make their new games to support DX9 and DX10. So many changes - so many problems... Because of the lot of "features" that are missing on earlier versions of Windows!
Compiling an OpenGL source which was made e.g. 10 years ago could be easily done with a little modification on the source!
I hope that OpenGL will be the future of gaming so we could play easily on any Operating System.
CaMiX 1st December 2006, 14:06 Quote
Great article but how many times can this author write, "However"? Once I started to notice the word it was really annoying ever time I read it. Started to drive me CRAZY!

there wasn't really a need for all of that, but thanks for your comments, we will take them on board.
Cthippo 1st December 2006, 14:46 Quote
You joined to say that? :| Reported
zeoverlord 1st December 2006, 14:58 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mother-Gooser
There is not an Open GL equivalent to DX10 for starters

Actually there is (well at least the D3D part of it), openGL already supports most if not all of the new DX10/SM4 features (on all systems with DX10 class hardware) with more on the way, not to mention that openGL never really had the small batch problem that DX10 so franticly tries to fix, in fact, when openGL 3 comes out this spring that problem will be solved once and for all in openGL, can you say the same thing for DX.

I read a post that voiced concern that the openGL support in vista would perhaps not have as a solid support in vista, let me put that concern to rest permanently, Microsoft wouldn't dare to do so, you see, while DX might be the leader in games, openGL is OMGWTF dominating all other areas where 3D is used, and that's a pretty large chunk.
So if they gimp the support for openGL, they would automatically gimp the need for windows.

O, and one more thing, what would you rather spend money on, a new graphics card + games, or a new graphics card and Windows Vista + games(the few there are)?
keir 1st December 2006, 16:23 Quote
directX10 also makes more people join :D
[USRF]Obiwan 1st December 2006, 16:34 Quote
I loved the article about dx 10. But Now that the EU prices are somehow anounced to be enormous... i will stay a year or so on xp :

Vista Ultimate:
US dollar - 369,-
DUTCH euro - 549,-
difference: 303,24 (52,1%)

Vista Business:
US dollar - 279,-
Dutch euro - 409,-
difference: 227,24 (51,2%)

Vista Home Premium:
US dollar - 219,-
Dutch euro - 329,-
difference: 181,64 (52,2%)

Vista Home Basic:
US dollar - 129,-
Dutch euro - 279,-
difference: 151,24 (55,0%)

1) Bank dollar-euro: 0,76 euro per dollar.
2) Dutch euro differencecalculation minus 19% VAT
Tyinsar 1st December 2006, 17:15 Quote
Attention Tim: (my question from post #20)

If DX10 can run more than one 3D session at a time does this mean we could see both outputs on a video card used for one 3D game? That alone would make DX10 a killer upgrade.
hitman012 1st December 2006, 18:12 Quote
It's already possible to use both screens for a game - the beta of Supreme Commander will allow rendering on both outputs of a dual-head card.
zeoverlord 1st December 2006, 18:20 Quote
Dual screens in games, already possible, and it has been since the day one could fit two GFX cards into one computer, we are talking pre AGP days here (pre DX days even).
And BTW i regularly run openGL on multiple screens and windows, it's no biggie, it just drains a bit of performance with X times as much stuff to render.
Tyinsar 1st December 2006, 19:48 Quote
What I'm looking for is an alternative to using the Matrox TripleHead2Go.

None of the games I've tried supported multi-monitor 3d (but then I don't have time to try very many) but if I missed it.
Aankhen 1st December 2006, 21:48 Quote
Thanks for the detailed explanation, Tim: I do appreciate it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim S
Typically, more geometry slows things down because in the past, we've had fixed-function graphics pipelines and a scene can be completely vertex bound with idle pixel shader hardware. With DirectX 10 that changes because the shader can handle vertex, geometry and pixel operations, and it will be interesting to see how developers move forwards. I think that displacement mapping (and evolutions of it) will still be used in the future though, because my understanding is that it's a lot more efficient. :)
We need more geometry! I don't place graphics over gameplay, but I do believe graphics contribute to the immersion factor of a game, and going up close to a character or object only to see a 256x256 texture stretched all over it does tend to ruin the immersion somewhat. :p
speedfreek 1st December 2006, 23:10 Quote
Yeah! Go overhead!

Although it looks like DX10 has less than 9 and it does take some of the strain off of the developers. But I would prefer linux to vista because with vista its more overhead. Yeah! lag rocks!!!
Kevin_G 1st December 2006, 23:18 Quote
There is already one big DX 10 only title set for release next year: the PC version of Halo 2. Then again this is from MS owned Bungie, so that isn't too surprising.

Depending on how fast Vista is adopted will mean how soon more DX10 only titles are released. I don't think anyone right now can make the call about how fast Vista will spread on PC's. It is a given that most new computer purchases from major manufacturers will have Vista pre-installed once it is formally released. Beyond that is purely variable. While developers do seem genuinely pleased the improvements in DX 10, most of them are not abandoning DX 9 because of this.

Open GL could certainly handle a geometry shader in Windows XP (or any other modern operating system for that matter) in theory. I haven't seen the three new nVidia extensions (EXT_gpu_shader4, EXT_geometry_shader4, and EXT_bindable_uniform) appear on SGI's Extension Registry. From the sound of it though, those extensions are available under Windows XP with Geforce 8800 cards and recent nVidia drivers.

One thing worth noting is that Vista is playing catch up to OS X, Linux and modern UNIX systems a bit. Those operating systems have allowed for multiple applications to take advantage of 3D hardware for years.
Kurayamino 2nd December 2006, 17:34 Quote
ok I did check know one else mentioned this as far as I can see. It also maybe a really stupid question that im asking but i dont know myself, what happens if I install DX10 on my pc and I am running a 7800 GTX? Will it work? and if not what will happen?
Cthippo 2nd December 2006, 17:39 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurayamino
ok I did check know one else mentioned this as far as I can see. It also maybe a really stupid question that im asking but i dont know myself, what happens if I install DX10 on my pc and I am running a 7800 GTX? Will it work? and if not what will happen?

It will work fine. DX10 cards are fully reverse compatible to systems running DX9.
DougEdey 2nd December 2006, 17:46 Quote
You won't get DX10 on a DX9 card.
Cthippo 2nd December 2006, 19:13 Quote
No, but a DX9 card in a system which has a DX10 capable OS will ignore the DX10 parts and run fine.
DougEdey 2nd December 2006, 19:59 Quote
Quote:
what happens if I install DX10 on my pc and I am running a 7800 GTX?

DX9 card on DX10 software
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cthippo
DX10 cards are fully reverse compatible to systems running DX9.

You mixed it up ;)
Cthippo 2nd December 2006, 20:12 Quote


I shouldn't post without caffiene.

However, my original statement stands. You can run a 8800GTX on a DX9 system and it will work. You just won't get the DX10 features.
DougEdey 2nd December 2006, 20:13 Quote
Yea, thats obvious.
Tim S 2nd December 2006, 20:56 Quote
There are two versions of DirectX installed on Windows Vista - DirectX 10, and DirectX 9Ex. DirectX 9Ex is "compatible" with all GPUs and DirectX 10 is only used with DirectX 10 hardware - any hardware that isn't DirectX 10 compatible will not use DirectX 10.
FragK 4th December 2006, 13:04 Quote
Are you sure Supreme Commander will be a dx10 game? I'm playing the open beta right now and it's on dx9.0c .
Tim S 4th December 2006, 14:12 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by FragK
Are you sure Supreme Commander will be a dx10 game? I'm playing the open beta right now and it's on dx9.0c .
Yes, the DirectX 10 libraries aren't available until January when Windows Vista ships.
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