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ATI Radeon X1800XT 512MB

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BioSniper 11th November 2005, 18:06 Quote
Not sure how you struggled with FPS on AOE3, I run max with 4x AA on at 1280x1024 on an x800 Pro and it seems just fine here.

Guess I have to check the actual FPS at some point mind you.
Highland3r 11th November 2005, 18:16 Quote
Have you had a chance to see how much headroom there are in the card clocks at all tim?

<edit> Can you try this and let us know if it improves things tim? </edit>
Tim S 11th November 2005, 18:20 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by BioSniper
Not sure how you struggled with FPS on AOE3, I run max with 4x AA on at 1280x1024 on an x800 Pro and it seems just fine here.

Guess I have to check the actual FPS at some point mind you.
You're using an older shader path for a start - all three of these video cards are using Shader Model 3.0. It might be another similar bug to what I was experiencing in F.E.A.R. - I don't have the card anymore, so I won't be able to check Catalyst AI on vs Catalyst AI off. I was tearing hair out for several hours and got no closer to solving the AOE3 performance woes - I can't remember what time it was when I went to bed on Wednesday night after spending more than 4-5 hours trying to work out what was costing performance in AOE3. :|

Highland3r - I'm awaiting retail products before I overclock. :)
Highland3r 11th November 2005, 18:24 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigz

Highland3r - I'm awaiting retail products before I overclock. :)

;) ;)

See comment in previous post too :)
Tim S 11th November 2005, 18:25 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highland3r
;) ;)

See comment in previous post too :)
I did, check the FEAR page. I spoke with Terry Makedon and it's a Catalyst AI bug - hence the Catalyst AI on vs off comments under the table. ;)

There are some quick graphs here:

http://staff.bit-tech.net/tim/cataion.png

CatAI on
min: 13
avg: 42.233
max: 171

http://staff.bit-tech.net/tim/cataioff.png

CatAI off
min: 13
avg: 46.327
max: 166

Notes:

SloMo is used twice in the first firefight (the low points between the 49-57 and 65-73 markers) and then once in the second firefight (the low point between 129-137). The rest is run at full speed. I'm playing the game, so the shape is not going to be exactly the same, but the time taken to get through the level was exactly the same to the nearest second.

The second firefight is noticeably better with CatAI off, but I'd take CatAI on for the first (and heavier) firefight.
hitman012 11th November 2005, 18:46 Quote
I was expecting more from ATI, really :|

The performance difference seems to be quite small and definitely doesn't justify the premium - not to mention that the stock cooler on the card isn't as quiet as the 7800 (important for noise freaks like myself). ATI aren't being all that competitive at the moment if you consider that the newer 7-series is coming soon.

Good review :)
Tim S 11th November 2005, 18:48 Quote
I don't know, I get the impression that the drivers that we've got now are only a taste of what is to come. I hope they fix City of Villains, and I hope that they can get AOE3 working at much higher frame rates. It could be that the demo is just coded differently to the final retail version.

I haven't done comparisons between the demo and the final game.
atanum141 11th November 2005, 19:06 Quote
are you still running it or have you given it back biggles??
Tim S 11th November 2005, 19:14 Quote
It's gone back atanum - went back yesterday. I hope to have it again for further testing in a few weeks.
silent_project 11th November 2005, 20:21 Quote
I hate to say it but i am beginning to become a serious nvidia fan...its a cool card to be sure but i am just...unimpressed.
perplekks45 11th November 2005, 21:05 Quote
It's not what many ATI fans hoped for. It didn't actually blow nVidia totally away.
It's a more than good card with more than un-optimised drivers imo, so let's wait what we'll see in the next weeks. It's quite a bit faster than a standard 7800 GTX @ stock right now... I mean what will it be when optimised and oc'ed?
Biggest problems about it imo is price and availability.
Even though I have always been and will be for the next future a nVidia fan (proud owner of a Gainward 6600 GT GS GLH @ 540/1150 @ 38-46°C core) this card would have been worth a thought if I had the money and if it had been released together with the 7800 or even before.
Tim S 11th November 2005, 21:26 Quote
Yeah, I think R520 is great, just price and availability suck right now. Hopefully they'll come down and slot the X1800XT 512MB in at £360 - then it'd be a good price IMHO. The memory doesn't make a fat lot of difference in most games - Quake 4 at Ultra Quality struggled, F.E.A.R. has more performance to come, and I imagine the likes of AOE3, CoD2 and other games like that will continue to keep these cards locked neck and neck.
perplekks45 11th November 2005, 22:18 Quote
Maybe ATI's got a slight advantage because of their architecture but that will show in the future...
tank_rider 11th November 2005, 23:46 Quote
Was the wait worth it? Well its a slightly better performing card than the stock 7800gtx, and as has happened with the 7800gtx the board partners will offer overclocked version which should push the performance level beyond that of the current breed of nvidia cards, but not by much. It's going to be interesting to see how much extra performance can be gleened from subsequent driver releases. Also how the 256Mb version stacks up against the nvidia.

I used to be a bit of an ATI fanboy, but my current 6800LE has really won me over to nvidia, as has the fact that they can actually manage to hard launch products (i guess the knowledge that the ATI card was a fair way behind them gave them a bit of a hand there).

Meh, it's going to be a year before i can afford to build a decent gaming rig, and everything will no doubt have been turned on it's head several times before then.
Tim S 11th November 2005, 23:52 Quote
Maybe we'll see the 256MB X1800XT being a better competitor to the GeForce 7800 GTX at reference clocks on price? Nobody has had the chance to test those cards yet, but I get the impression that the frame buffer won't make much difference in a lot of games at the moment.

You could see something around the same price as the standard GeForce 7800 GTX's, performing almost identically to the 512MB version - which would you take in that situation? I guess it will all depend on how readily available the part is, and how much it costs in comparison to what else is on offer. :)
Pookeyhead 11th November 2005, 23:54 Quote
Similar performance to the lightly OCed 7800s.. £50 more... and it's a big brute!!! Oh.. crossfire sucks as well.... and it will be noisier too.

I'll be sticking with nVidia me thinks.
.. Oh... and you still can't actually buy the damned thing.

I made the right choice.
Tim S 12th November 2005, 00:13 Quote
I don't think there's a wrong choice at the moment - whichever high-end video card you buy, you're getting a kickass product IMHO.

It's great to be a consumer at the moment.

if money is no object...
Pookeyhead 12th November 2005, 00:43 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigz
I don't think there's a wrong choice at the moment - whichever high-end video card you buy, you're getting a kickass product IMHO.

It's great to be a consumer at the moment.

if money is no object...

True... Just glad it doesn't kick the NV78s ass like some ATi fanboys predicted. Couple that with lower price, better multi-GPU solution, quietr cooling, smaller, and better availability.. seems better ATM.

Better drivers... price drop, and availability, and they'll be pretty even stevens I would think.

Will be interesting to see how it clocks.
Tim S 12th November 2005, 00:54 Quote
It clocks pretty well, but I don't think that reference cards should be overclocked - we should have a retail card soon, I guess.
BioSniper 12th November 2005, 08:12 Quote
Ahh, cheers for clearing that up for me bigz :) Makes alot more sense now :) ;)
Dr. Strangelove 12th November 2005, 19:59 Quote
I don't think the results here should surprise us that much, as I remember the XT1800XT was suppose to have been released around the same time as the 7800. It was never "meant" to be a 7800 "killer" in the sense that it would outperform it by a large margin (although I'm sure that ATI would have loved that). I think this card looks solid and we will just have to see what ATI can pull out by working with their drivers, also there is the possible OC potential of the XT. Furthermore we will have to hope that ATI will be able to "catch up" with nVidia, competition is always good for the consumer! :D

--> Bigz, how on earth did you manage on a manual run through FEAR to repeat a two runs at exactly the same speed very impressive especially considering how the AI is not scripted!!
eek 12th November 2005, 21:57 Quote
When are we going to see some reviews of crossfired x1000 series cards? Are there actually any master cards available yet?

Personally I think ATI have done pretty well considering this a new architecture whereas AFAIK the 7800 is a slightly updated, faster clocked 6800. In the long term (next revision or two) this architecture change for ATI will no doubt benifit them and while nvidia are fiddling with new architectures and so on ATI will be the ones with faster, more available products. It's all swings and roundabouts.
Tim S 12th November 2005, 22:32 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Strangelove
--> Bigz, how on earth did you manage on a manual run through FEAR to repeat a two runs at exactly the same speed very impressive especially considering how the AI is not scripted!!
Lots and lots of practice ;)
Tim S 12th November 2005, 22:33 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by eek
When are we going to see some reviews of crossfired x1000 series cards? Are there actually any master cards available yet?
When they're made available to us - they don't exist at the moment, as far as I know.
Quote:
Personally I think ATI have done pretty well considering this a new architecture whereas AFAIK the 7800 is a slightly updated, faster clocked 6800. In the long term (next revision or two) this architecture change for ATI will no doubt benifit them and while nvidia are fiddling with new architectures and so on ATI will be the ones with faster, more available products. It's all swings and roundabouts.
I totally agree with that statement. ;)

GeForce 6800-series was very slow in comparison to Radeon X800-series when the first drivers came out - the drivers have matured since then and we're seeing some decent performance with more being unlocked all of the time too (see release 80, some good perf increases there).

I think by the time Catalyst 6.1 comes out, we should have some very interesting performance coming from Radeon X1800-series. Drivers take time to master when you've got a completely new architecture, and I'm fully confident that Terry and the boys can work their magic to find more performance for the X1k-series buyers (and the people with older cards too).
Aphex_ 13th November 2005, 12:30 Quote
just thought this might be of interest to ppl wanting to know something about the overclockability http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=3899&page=15

i know hexus's way of testing is inherently different to bit-tech's, i prefer your's but overclocking is overclocking really, and some numbers give an idea of what to expect.

705 core 1700 ram is a pretty damn impressive speed, up from 625/1494 is nice, but with nvidia's new cards going to use faster ram will this advantage still be there.

there is also some words on hexus that the xt cores are coming off really well, so pre-overclocked cards looks pretty certain. makes the cards a bit more appealing imo!
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