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AMD Reveals 2012 Roadmap

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coolius 14th June 2011, 10:02 Quote
Where do they get these names??
NethLyn 14th June 2011, 10:04 Quote
2012?! It's the DNF of CPUs...
fluxtatic 14th June 2011, 10:09 Quote
It's right in the graphic that Bulldozer won't have integrated graphics. Anyway, I guess this confirms what had leaked a few months back, which was almost exactly this.
warejon9 14th June 2011, 10:09 Quote
At a long shot, maybe its stars? As combining stars makes scorpious and leo etc?

I hope that they've got decent performance, and more importantly just not delayed!
Madness_3d 14th June 2011, 10:18 Quote
Good move AMD, letting people know what you're doing makes the option of buying an AM3+ board now more attractive. You know what you're upgrade path looks like
wuyanxu 14th June 2011, 10:25 Quote
death by codename overdose.......

just tell us the overall codename for 2012 processors.

also, i thought 2011 release were supposed to be Bulldozer, where did other codenames come from?
tonyd223 14th June 2011, 11:31 Quote
remember performance per clock? I have a horrible feeling that all AMD have done is put the old Phenom architecture on a smaller die - no, of course they haven't, all the block diagrams are different...

Good luck AMD!
TeenGeek 14th June 2011, 11:34 Quote
i hope they do well with these, they look pretty cool! although, im not a huge fan of the APU thing... i like my gtx 260, thank you very much!
Kris 14th June 2011, 12:37 Quote
FMx - socket maybe? As we have Llano in the FM1 socket...
Xir 14th June 2011, 13:42 Quote
we'll see when it's there...
...i was hoping for a SB-match for this year but hey...
Goty 14th June 2011, 15:27 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by wuyanxu

also, i thought 2011 release were supposed to be Bulldozer, where did other codenames come from?

Bulldozer is the codename for the architecture, the other codenames are for individual product lines.
Aracos 14th June 2011, 16:13 Quote
Anyone reading this thinking southern islands is next year? FFS! I want an upgrade!
abezors 14th June 2011, 16:19 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by storm20200
southern islands is next year? FFS! I want an upgrade!

Tell me about it.. I've been holding off upgrading my 5770 for ages now. Desperately want the 7*** series to have some release details. Don't know whether to hold on and hope for a nice surprise, or or just go for a 6*** series...
Snips 14th June 2011, 19:38 Quote
Roadmap to administration?
Zinfandel 14th June 2011, 19:44 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snips
Roadmap to administration?

I thought this quite hilarious. Good work sir.
OCJunkie 14th June 2011, 19:46 Quote
Whoopie doo... they're just spending way too much time getting all discombobulated with ridiculous codenames instead of actually releasing what everyone's been waiting for. GAH fack Llano and give my BD & 7xxx already!!!
Adnoctum 15th June 2011, 01:38 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by NethLyn
2012?! It's the DNF of CPUs...

What are you talking about? Brazos, Llano and Bulldozer are all this year. This is their roadmap for next year, so obviously they are all about 2012.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyd223
I have a horrible feeling that all AMD have done is put the old Phenom architecture on a smaller die - no, of course they haven't, all the block diagrams are different...

There's no conspiracy, they said in the release (and have said all along) that Llano is based on the Phenom II cores with power and efficiency enhancements. You don't need a horrible feeling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Storm20200
Anyone reading this thinking southern islands is next year? FFS! I want an upgrade!

It is this year. Everyone is saying this year. In fact, it is said that 28nm Southern Islands has taped out and been sent to TSMC for baking, so I'd say definately this year.
This roadmap isn't a graphics one, it is a CPU/APU one. Southern Islands is only not on the roadmap because is won't be ready for launch with the Lynx and Scorpius platforms, which is now for Lynx and September for Scorpius. What we can infer is that Southern Islands will arrive on or after October/November 2011.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OCJunkie
Whoopie doo... they're just spending way too much time getting all discombobulated with ridiculous codenames instead of actually releasing what everyone's been waiting for. GAH fack Llano and give my BD & 7xxx already!!!


I always think it hilarious when supposed computer nerds complain about codenames, because real nerds like codenames. They give us something to hang our speculations and specifications on. If we weren't given codenames we'd have to invent them, like we did with the Phenom II core when we invented K10.5.
aussiebear 15th June 2011, 04:46 Quote
Lots of people don't know what's really going on. So let me fill you in on the overall picture...


Firstly, in regards to GPUs not moving forward. The problem isn't AMD or Nvidia. They are fabrication-less chip design companies.

The problem is TSMC...The company that actually manufactures the designs into physical GPUs. They promised 32nm in 2010. They didn't deliver on time or on budget. It costs more to transition to 32nm than to redesign a GPU for 40nm (Which is what AMD/Nvidia did; as 40nm is cheap and mature)...TSMC decided to skip 32nm and go straight to 28nm. Samples of AMD's and Nvidia's next generation GPUs are being made and tested as we speak. They go through a multi-phase regime of stability testing, then they tweak for performance when its near final silicon.

To keep consumers at bay, both Nvidia and AMD have drastically slowed down their pace, conduct "product refreshes", and "product relabeling" of existing 40nm-based products. 28nm products won't be available until late 2011 or early 2012.

So in summary...
Fabrication plant can't deliver the needed silicon product => Fab-less design company affected => Consumer affected.



Secondly, in regards to 2nd generation Bulldozer-based processors changing socket formats. Its not because AMD is following the Intel practice of "encouraging the customer to upgrade". Its because AMD has no choice from an engineering standpoint.

Here's why...

The upcoming FX-series (Zambezi) is going to be replaced by Komodo...Komodo is going to have up to 10 cores. That's two more than FX-series! Do you honestly think a dual-channel memory configuration is going to cut it? The upper end of JEDEC speeds (with good price/performance) is DDR3-1866...The upcoming FX-series is already on that in dual-channel RAM configuration, and that goes up to 8-cores! To go up to the next JEDEC (official memory speed) standard is costly...Go check prices for DDR3-1866 and -2133 sticks; you'll see the latter is expensive!

What about the A-series (Llano) APU replacement, Trinity?...That's going to have a dual/quad-core 2nd gen Bulldozer with Radeon HD67xx class IGP. You can already see with A-series, that DDR3-1866 in dual channel configuration doesn't offer enough memory bandwidth for optimal performance. (If you don't, just wait for desktop version reviews that are coming at the end of this month, and note what happens when the reviewer ramps up memory speeds when they overclock...See how much the IGP improves.)

So if you can't clock up the RAM while keeping prices affordable, there's only one choice....Add another channel. That's right, AMD is going triple-channel in 2012. This means a new memory controller, different configuration of RAM slots, and a new socket format...Translation? A new motherboard is required.



Think about it:


If you move up to the next official JEDEC memory speed...

Dual channel DDR3-1866 offers 29.9 GB/s
to
Dual channel DDR3-2133 offers 34.1 GB/s

...About a 15% increase.


But if you add another memory channel...

Dual channel DDR3-1866 offers 29.9 GB/s
to
Triple channel DDR3-1866 offers 44.8 GB/s

...About a 49% increase.


Concluding the obvious: Adding a memory channel gives you more benefit per dollar.



Another side fact:

Computer enthusiasts who build their own desktop systems are a small market compared to the rest of the world. If you do some research, you come to realise most of the world upgrades their systems by buying a whole new box. They don't open their box and tinker with its insides. My point? AMD is willing to take a verbal hit from a vocal minority when such a major change doesn't really affect the majority. (The majority and OEMs will enjoy Fusion APUs, because it lifts up IGP performance. To an enthusiast, it doesn't mean anything as they often get discrete video cards that are way more powerful.)

Let's be honest, unless you have specific power and footprint (system size) requirements, you wouldn't bother with A-series APUs; as it won't meet your needs. You would got for Intel Core i-series or AMD's upcoming FX-series with a discrete video card of your choosing.
Kris 15th June 2011, 07:00 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by abezors
Tell me about it.. I've been holding off upgrading my 5770 for ages now. Desperately want the 7*** series to have some release details. Don't know whether to hold on and hope for a nice surprise, or or just go for a 6*** series...
mate, i've been thinking exactly the same thing :) the 6950 looks mighty attractive, but then again the summer is coming so wouldn't have that much time to play anyway so might as well wait... really would like some news about the 7 series :)
OCJunkie 17th June 2011, 18:41 Quote
aussiebear is absolutely right, that's the reality of things and I'm pretty sure most people reading here are (mostly) aware of the situation. Regardless, this is an enthusiast site harboring that small percentage of users who DO build their own and are interested in power, so we're entitled to wish and hope :P
akbareshghi 26th June 2011, 05:16 Quote
what about Ram DDR4 support
Chipset designing special for High-end Desktop that support 3D Softwares is best way that both intel and AMD follow it .
I request from both Company that support DDR4 in Next Chipset (ie for intel X79 and for AMD 990FX) to success agianst consumers
Bindibadgi 27th June 2011, 03:37 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by akbareshghi
what about Ram DDR4 support
Chipset designing special for High-end Desktop that support 3D Softwares is best way that both intel and AMD follow it .
I request from both Company that support DDR4 in Next Chipset (ie for intel X79 and for AMD 990FX) to success agianst consumers

There is no such thing as DDR4 yet. JEDEC hasn't ratified the specification. There are test samples floating around, but you could say that about a lot of technology ;)

The chipsets no longer contain the memory controller anyway, so the X79 or 990FX could already "support" DDR4 in future motherboard iterations if new CPUs are announced that use it.

aussiebear - Triple channel memory is a false economy. Unfortunately AMD is not going triple channel in 2012. Why? Efficiency and costs.

With every additional channel your efficiency goes down due to the limitation of real-world interleaving and where the data is stored. Intel gets away with it more for X58 due to the type of platform it was designed for, but it never gave 30% more performance. Mainstream this is not the case. AMD (well, ATI) has tried to compensate it by adding local memory buffers before - ever since about 2003. This might happen again.

The complexity of PCB and tracing goes up with each additional channel, which means motherboards and their development costs more. This is why Intel introduced FB-DIMMs and then LR-DIMMs for servers.

The overclocking capacity is also limited the more channels you add, but it's also a factor of how the memory controller works (frequency relationship between uncore and memory for example). (However, LGA2011 memory use will be different for reasons I'm not allowed to explain yet.)

No platform designer will use more than dual channel memory and four DIMM slots in the mainstream consumer realm. X58 was an exception because it was designed for workstations. Physical DIMMs cost a finite amount of money, and adding another costs more for OEMs. Frequency and capacity can drop in price though, and with 30nm class memory coming on the market 1866+ DDR3 is easier than ever to make.

It also means that AMD has to redevelop a memory controller to add another memory channel - that's physical silicon validation time and cost, as well as extra silicon and pin-count and redesigning of things like prefetchers and drivers. Remember AMD needs these chips on the market ASAFP. It's already 6 months behind Sandy Bridge and has had to resort to using old K10.5 cores to quicken and simplify development. It won't have the time or resources to develop another channel if it wants to move Bulldozer to mainstream and introduce VLIW4 Radeon cores in 2012.

In addition, even FM1 is based on the AM/AM2/AM3 socket size, which keeps costs lower on the manufacturing and development front. Socket design is actually extremely difficult to make sure every connection is made and the cooling is even (again look at the LGA2011 socket with TWIN clips!)

Simply getting your memory controller to scale in frequency is just easier and cheaper for all involved.

Ultimately though Llano APUs perform good enough for their intended purpose: they nail Intel = design win, but still leave the door open for improvement in future iterations (some form DDR4 maybe if it's late 2012) and the APUs don't impede too much on AMD's discrete GPU sales. Remember of all companies, AMD still needs to make money after several years in the red.
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