Hmmm, an analogy to explain an analogy to explain something that was probably bleedin' obvious in the first place. In case anyone was wondering the relevance of my tangents, yes, I have been drinking.
Originally Posted by John_T I'm confused by your point Thermal5, as the chart you pick demonstrates the 750 & 860 posting the same scores when stock, with the 750 outpacing the 860 when overclocked - and the 920 outpacing both when overclocked..
Your confused because you didn't read my post properly, try again... I was comparing the i7 860 and the i7 920 (see the parts highlighted in bold) I wasn't comparing the i5 750 in my posting, at the time I posted I was comparing the 860 and the 920.
Reading here Bit-tech review of the 1156 i5-i7 CPU's it shows the i7 920 at stock speed gets an average of 32 fps in Crysis and minimum of 24 fps (just below comfortable fps) and the i7 860 gets an average of 34 fps in Crysis and a minimum of 27 fps a 2 and 3 fps increase over the 920, interesting ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindibadgi As everyone has correctly pointed out - for the money of the 860 in the UK you could buy a 920 platform which has more memory, more bandwidth and more features. In the States the 860 is a much better buy.
You forgot something the 920 has more memory, more bandwidth and more features, AND more cost, are you actually telling me it's cheaper to buy an i7 920, 6gb of ram, and a 1366 motherboard for less or the equivalent price of an i7 860, 4gb of ram and a 1156 motherboard? And if not then obviously the slight difference in price clearly wouldn't be justified as it clearly shows in the review that the difference in Crysis between the 860 and the 920 is only 1fps, which no one would even notice.
Originally Posted by Thermal5 You forgot something the 920 has more memory, more bandwidth and more features, AND more cost, are you actually telling me it's cheaper to buy an i7 920, 6gb of ram, and a 1366 motherboard for less or the equivalent price of an i7 860, 4gb of ram and a 1156 motherboard? And if not then obviously the slight difference in price clearly wouldn't be justified as it clearly shows in the review that the difference in Crysis between the 860 and the 920 is only 1fps, which no one would even notice.
The cost is nearly identical. You can get a decent X58 motherboard for £130-140, which is what most of the mid-range P55 motherboards are selling for. The only thing that is more expensive is the RAM, at maybe £20 extra for 3 sticks rather than 2, but that is offset by the fact the 860 is £20 more than the 920. Ridiculous.
For that extra ~£0 you get a higher spec chipset, twice the number of PCI-E lanes for better performance in multi GPU systems, a triple channel memory controller, and a few other features that I forget right now.
Originally Posted by Thermal5 Reading here Bit-tech review of the 1156 i5-i7 CPU's it shows the i7 920 at stock speed gets an average of 32 fps in Crysis and minimum of 24 fps (just below comfortable fps) and the i7 860 gets an average of 34 fps in Crysis and a minimum of 27 fps a 2 and 3 fps increase over the 920, interesting ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindibadgi As everyone has correctly pointed out - for the money of the 860 in the UK you could buy a 920 platform which has more memory, more bandwidth and more features. In the States the 860 is a much better buy.
You forgot something the 920 has more memory, more bandwidth and more features, AND more cost, are you actually telling me it's cheaper to buy an i7 920, 6gb of ram, and a 1366 motherboard for less or the equivalent price of an i7 860, 4gb of ram and a 1156 motherboard? And if not then obviously the slight difference in price clearly wouldn't be justified as it clearly shows in the review that the difference in Crysis between the 860 and the 920 is only 1fps, which no one would even notice.
Crysis is not the be-all-end-all... there are other applications out there too, you know. If Crysis was the only application I was thinking about, I'd opt for the 750 and spend the extra on a faster GPU.
It's an interesting question that Thermal5 has posed, just done a quick check on Scan's site.
Before I did this check, I would have thought the two costs to be pretty similar. Due to the extra bandwith etc I would therefore have recommended the i7 920 system.
Originally Posted by Chris_Waddle It's an interesting question that Thermal5 has posed, just done a quick check on Scan's site.
Before I did this check, I would have thought the two costs to be pretty similar. Due to the extra bandwith etc I would therefore have recommended the i7 920 system.
Total for i7 920 - £468.00
Total for i7 860 - £391.00
This give the 860 system a saving of £77.00
To me, based on the results of the tests you made, the 860 system would well be worth a look now. £77 is a damn good deposit on another component too.
I suspect that the memory you've selected for the Core i5 system isn't compatible - it needs to have a default voltage of no more than 1.65V. So, rather than this kit for £75, you have to use this kit for £100.
That does still give you roughly a £50 difference between the systems, but if it were me, I'd pay the extra and get the better CPU and motherboard.
Still, the list above shows that things are moving in the right direction in the UK - an LGA1156 upgrade needs to be a good bit cheaper than the LGA1366 alternative to make it a no-brainer upgrade, and the prices are starting to shift to reflect this.
im using the exact Dominators RAM, also bought from Scan, on my i5 system, 1600Mhz 9-9-9-24 1.6v no problem, passed 4 memtest86's. it may not work with other RAM, but Corsair RAM always has a huge overhead.
the way i see it: 1156 is ~£60 cheaper than 1336, if you don't ever plan to go for SLI/Crossfire (like me) and feel 12GB is not enough, want to fill slots with 4GB sticks as soon as possible, then settling for i7 860 is a great choice. in fact, for the same amount of money, you can get 8GB instead of 6GB.
i think it all comes down to SLI/Crossfire in the future or not.
update on my Corsair H50 bought from Novatech: they've offered a full refund due to LGA1156 was mis-advertised. i asked for LGA1156 kit for free once it's available, they say they are talking with Corsair about this.
re the last couple of posts: cool, fair enough - just wanted to make sure people knew to look at voltages of DDR3 before rushing to buy the cheapest kit. Thanks for sharing the link and Corsair advice! :D
Originally Posted by Tim S Crysis is not the be-all-end-all... there are other applications out there too, you know. If Crysis was the only application I was thinking about, I'd opt for the 750 and spend the extra on a faster GPU.
Crysis may not be the be all and end all but at the end of the day Crysis was used as one of the benchmarks and if it's not the be all and end all then don't use that benchmark!, I was only commenting on the performance difference between the i7 860 and i7 920 which is literally 1fps which no one would even notice.
Originally Posted by Thermal5 Your confused because you didn't read my post properly, try again...
Really?
I didn't read your post properly? Try again?
So the fact that:
- You did mention the i5 750 in the previous post to the one you kindly highlighted in bold for me...
- That your mention of it was a full 14 minutes earlier...
- That the two chips are both socket 1156 Lynnfields...
- That they both chalk up the exact same stock scores on the Crysis performance chart, (which seems the only criteria you're interested in)...
- That the 750 actually outpaces the 860 on that same chart when overclocked...
- That for equal or greater performance in your parameter of choice, the 750 is as near as dammit £70 cheaper than the 860...*
- That when someone says they're worried about budget, I thought that value for money may be an interesting point to mention...
- And that the ENTIRE ORIGINAL ARTICLE was about the 750 to begin with...
All of that is rendered irrelevant - because you decided to change what you were talking about and I had the temerity to carry on including the 750 in comparison to both the 860 & 920?
Fair enough, a big old slap on the wrist for me then...
I mentioned the i5 in the previous post to the one I kindly highlighted in bold, key word here is PREVIOUS post! Not current one!!!!!!
So the two chips are both socket 1156 Lynnfields... Your point is? We already knew that!
And so they chalk up the exact same scores on the Crysis Performance Chart bar when the i5 750 is overclocked then it scores 1fps more whoop de f*cking do! 1 FPS difference....... Not ever gonna be noticeable is it.
As for the i5 750, it will never outpace the i7 860 overall whichever day of the week you happen to be on so like I said wind your neck in!
Oh and so bl*ody what if the 750 is £70 cheaper than the 860, 750 = 4 cores/4 threads No hyperthreading, 860 = 4 cores/8 threads Hyperthreading which does make a huge difference believe me!
And so what that the original topic was originally about the i5 750, what the hell is your point?, nowhere does it say DO NOT talk about anything but the 860 or express your points about any other CPU in comparison.
So yeah a great big slap on the wrist for you then!
Originally Posted by Thermal5 And wind your neck in!
After you chastising me for not being able to read properly, and telling me that I should 'try again', (which in fairness I did) I rather feel this applies as much to you as me...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermal5 I mentioned the i5 in the previous post to the one I kindly highlighted in bold, key word here is PREVIOUS post! Not current one!!!!!!
This being a rolling conversation, I didn't realise each point was supposed to be considered dead after a subsequent post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermal5 So the two chips are both socket 1156 Lynnfields... Your point is?
That's it's OK to talk about and compare them both without being 'told off', basically.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermal5 And so they chalk up the exact same scores on the Crysis Performance Chart bar when the i5 750 is overclocked then it scores 1fps more whoop de f*cking do! 1 FPS difference....... Not ever gonna be noticeable is it.
You mean stock vs overclocked, (you didn't really word that quite right) but yes, that's exactly and entirely my point: If you're only interested in Crysis, why not get essentially identical performance for substantially less money?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermal5 As for the i5 750, it will never outpace the i7 860 overall whichever day of the week you happen to be on...
Well, apart from on the days you keep posting those beloved Crysis charts of course...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermal5 ...so like I said wind your neck in!
I refer to my previous statement.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermal5 Oh and so bl*ody what if the 750 is £70 cheaper than the 860...
Er, if you're not interested budgets, what exactly was your point in all this again?
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Originally Posted by Thermal5 Hyperthreading which does make a huge difference believe me!
Oh, go on then - I'll believe you! :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermal5 And so what that the original topic was originally about the i5 750, what the hell is your point?
That it was OK to talk about it really.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermal5 nowhere does it say DO NOT talk about anything but the 860 or express your points about any other CPU in comparison.
Well, that was pretty much exactly what you were saying when you picked me up on the error of my ways for mentioning something that wasn't the 860 or 920...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermal5 So yeah a great big slap on the wrist for you then!
That's twice now. Getting a bit sore actually. (It's gone all red & everything...).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermal5 See thee and goodnight.
Im hitting 3.2ghz easy with 21x and the intel stock cooler, I hardly have it on 100% load but when it does i got it to 92degreesC...
May get meself the H50 and try to hit that sweet 4Ghz :)
Grreat article!
I've been searching for two weeks for something like this one, that explains in detail what effect does any specific BIOS setting have on my mobo :)
You know I had this bookmarked from a while back and it's that time of the year (bloody freezin) that computers deserve a wee xmas kick up the SB. I've got to say though, I just spent a thoroughly enjoyable 10 minutes reading the flaming in the comments section. I would thoroughly recommend it.
It could do with a comparisson of their arguements though, maybe some sort of definitive result and conclusion?
Well I'd just like to say thanks for this quick refrence guide.
easily running at 4Ghz which gives me an extra ~10fps on BF3 and this is after I bumped up some settings.
Comments 26 to 46 of 46
Reply4GHz? Screw that! GIVE ME 5GHZ!!! lol
Putting down the keyboard now...
Your confused because you didn't read my post properly, try again... I was comparing the i7 860 and the i7 920 (see the parts highlighted in bold) I wasn't comparing the i5 750 in my posting, at the time I posted I was comparing the 860 and the 920.
Reading here Bit-tech review of the 1156 i5-i7 CPU's it shows the i7 920 at stock speed gets an average of 32 fps in Crysis and minimum of 24 fps (just below comfortable fps) and the i7 860 gets an average of 34 fps in Crysis and a minimum of 27 fps a 2 and 3 fps increase over the 920, interesting ;)
You forgot something the 920 has more memory, more bandwidth and more features, AND more cost, are you actually telling me it's cheaper to buy an i7 920, 6gb of ram, and a 1366 motherboard for less or the equivalent price of an i7 860, 4gb of ram and a 1156 motherboard? And if not then obviously the slight difference in price clearly wouldn't be justified as it clearly shows in the review that the difference in Crysis between the 860 and the 920 is only 1fps, which no one would even notice.
The cost is nearly identical. You can get a decent X58 motherboard for £130-140, which is what most of the mid-range P55 motherboards are selling for. The only thing that is more expensive is the RAM, at maybe £20 extra for 3 sticks rather than 2, but that is offset by the fact the 860 is £20 more than the 920. Ridiculous.
For that extra ~£0 you get a higher spec chipset, twice the number of PCI-E lanes for better performance in multi GPU systems, a triple channel memory controller, and a few other features that I forget right now.
Crysis is not the be-all-end-all... there are other applications out there too, you know. If Crysis was the only application I was thinking about, I'd opt for the 750 and spend the extra on a faster GPU.
Before I did this check, I would have thought the two costs to be pretty similar. Due to the extra bandwith etc I would therefore have recommended the i7 920 system.
i7 920 System: CPU (£210) + Gigabyte EX-58 UD3R (£136) + 3x3gig Dominator 1600mhz Ram (£122.00)
i7 860 System: CPU (£218) + Gigabyte P55 UD3R (£98) + 2x2gig Dominator 1600mhz Ram (£75.00)
Total for i7 920 - £468.00
Total for i7 860 - £391.00
This give the 860 system a saving of £77.00
To me, based on the results of the tests you made, the 860 system would well be worth a look now. £77 is a damn good deposit on another component too.
I suspect that the memory you've selected for the Core i5 system isn't compatible - it needs to have a default voltage of no more than 1.65V. So, rather than this kit for £75, you have to use this kit for £100.
That does still give you roughly a £50 difference between the systems, but if it were me, I'd pay the extra and get the better CPU and motherboard.
Still, the list above shows that things are moving in the right direction in the UK - an LGA1156 upgrade needs to be a good bit cheaper than the LGA1366 alternative to make it a no-brainer upgrade, and the prices are starting to shift to reflect this.
the way i see it: 1156 is ~£60 cheaper than 1336, if you don't ever plan to go for SLI/Crossfire (like me) and feel 12GB is not enough, want to fill slots with 4GB sticks as soon as possible, then settling for i7 860 is a great choice. in fact, for the same amount of money, you can get 8GB instead of 6GB.
i think it all comes down to SLI/Crossfire in the future or not.
update on my Corsair H50 bought from Novatech: they've offered a full refund due to LGA1156 was mis-advertised. i asked for LGA1156 kit for free once it's available, they say they are talking with Corsair about this.
Crysis may not be the be all and end all but at the end of the day Crysis was used as one of the benchmarks and if it's not the be all and end all then don't use that benchmark!, I was only commenting on the performance difference between the i7 860 and i7 920 which is literally 1fps which no one would even notice.
Really?
I didn't read your post properly? Try again?
So the fact that:
- You did mention the i5 750 in the previous post to the one you kindly highlighted in bold for me...
- That your mention of it was a full 14 minutes earlier...
- That the two chips are both socket 1156 Lynnfields...
- That they both chalk up the exact same stock scores on the Crysis performance chart, (which seems the only criteria you're interested in)...
- That the 750 actually outpaces the 860 on that same chart when overclocked...
- That for equal or greater performance in your parameter of choice, the 750 is as near as dammit £70 cheaper than the 860...*
- That when someone says they're worried about budget, I thought that value for money may be an interesting point to mention...
- And that the ENTIRE ORIGINAL ARTICLE was about the 750 to begin with...
All of that is rendered irrelevant - because you decided to change what you were talking about and I had the temerity to carry on including the 750 in comparison to both the 860 & 920?
Fair enough, a big old slap on the wrist for me then...
* http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Intel-Core-i5-750-Quad-Core-266Ghz-%28Lynnfield%29-8M-Cache-LGA1156-CPU-Retail
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Intel-Core-i7-860-Quad-Core-280GHz-%28Nehalem%29-8M-Cache-LGA1156-Retail
I mentioned the i5 in the previous post to the one I kindly highlighted in bold, key word here is PREVIOUS post! Not current one!!!!!!
So the two chips are both socket 1156 Lynnfields... Your point is? We already knew that!
And so they chalk up the exact same scores on the Crysis Performance Chart bar when the i5 750 is overclocked then it scores 1fps more whoop de f*cking do! 1 FPS difference....... Not ever gonna be noticeable is it.
As for the i5 750, it will never outpace the i7 860 overall whichever day of the week you happen to be on so like I said wind your neck in!
Oh and so bl*ody what if the 750 is £70 cheaper than the 860, 750 = 4 cores/4 threads No hyperthreading, 860 = 4 cores/8 threads Hyperthreading which does make a huge difference believe me!
And so what that the original topic was originally about the i5 750, what the hell is your point?, nowhere does it say DO NOT talk about anything but the 860 or express your points about any other CPU in comparison.
So yeah a great big slap on the wrist for you then!
See thee and goodnight.
After you chastising me for not being able to read properly, and telling me that I should 'try again', (which in fairness I did) I rather feel this applies as much to you as me...
This being a rolling conversation, I didn't realise each point was supposed to be considered dead after a subsequent post.
That's it's OK to talk about and compare them both without being 'told off', basically.
You mean stock vs overclocked, (you didn't really word that quite right) but yes, that's exactly and entirely my point: If you're only interested in Crysis, why not get essentially identical performance for substantially less money?
Well, apart from on the days you keep posting those beloved Crysis charts of course...
I refer to my previous statement.
Er, if you're not interested budgets, what exactly was your point in all this again?
Oh, go on then - I'll believe you! :D
That it was OK to talk about it really.
Well, that was pretty much exactly what you were saying when you picked me up on the error of my ways for mentioning something that wasn't the 860 or 920...
That's twice now. Getting a bit sore actually. (It's gone all red & everything...).
Indeed Sir, nighty-night and God bless.
May get meself the H50 and try to hit that sweet 4Ghz :)
I've been searching for two weeks for something like this one, that explains in detail what effect does any specific BIOS setting have on my mobo :)
It could do with a comparisson of their arguements though, maybe some sort of definitive result and conclusion?
easily running at 4Ghz which gives me an extra ~10fps on BF3 and this is after I bumped up some settings.
(was @ 3Ghz)
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