bit-tech.net | Athlon X2 7750 vs. Intel E5200 OC & Value

Kúsař 22nd December 2008, 09:01

Great job & nice charts(I'd have one set as wallpaper if there was light blue instead of white)

Will you include 7550 once AMD has announced it's price? (How does it OC?)

robi386 22nd December 2008, 09:34

It's all good, but readers should know that not all E5200 chips OC so nicely.

At that 1.425V I can barely run mine at 3.3Ghz stable. It needs 1.475 for 3.4Ghz and is not stable with 1.5 at 3.5Ghz.

Probably just bad luck with the chip, tho, because usually they do OC better. But 4Ghz with 1.425 is still above average, IMO.

Teq 22nd December 2008, 09:44

tbh overclocking should not be the main basis for comparison, its always worth a mention but it does paint certain parts in an unnecessary bad light, especially when not all the parts have been overclocked during the value review...

capnPedro 22nd December 2008, 10:45

I would agree with the 5200+ statement at the end (see sig); it'll hit 3Ghz easily with a decent motherboard. However, AMD need to get more competative; I bought this processor in like March 2007. And it was cutting edge. And I said I'd never buy Intel (past experiences, eurgh.)

And that will probably not be true for my next rig.

bahgger 22nd December 2008, 10:52

Can bit-tech suggest a good protocol to overclock the E5200? I purchased the setup recommended for 'Budget' systems in the December "What should I buy?" Article and I can't seem to overclock past 3GHz :/

LeMaltor 22nd December 2008, 11:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by robi386
It's all good, but readers should know that not all E5200 chips OC so nicely.

At that 1.425V I can barely run mine at 3.3Ghz stable. It needs 1.475 for 3.4Ghz and is not stable with 1.5 at 3.5Ghz.

Probably just bad luck with the chip, tho, because usually they do OC better. But 4Ghz with 1.425 is still above average, IMO.

How do you know it's the chip? It could be your mobo, PSU, ram etc that are holding you back.

Bindibadgi 22nd December 2008, 11:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teq
tbh overclocking should not be the main basis for comparison, its always worth a mention but it does paint certain parts in an unnecessary bad light, especially when not all the parts have been overclocked during the value review...

True. But on the other end of the stick - people will complain how can we not include overclocking value because without it, the Intel is out of favour and yet most people who buy E5200s do so to overclock. We took a retail, off the shelf sample E5200 from Novatech, it's not like it was hand-picked from Intel either.

I put in all my BIOS settings - you could give them a go if they apply to your own BIOS.

RE: 7550 - we'd have to get a retail sample because we clocked down the 7750 to test at 7550 speeds, but we obviously can't overclock a 7750 assuming it was a 7550.

mclintox 22nd December 2008, 12:56

Prices in $ ????

Bindibadgi 22nd December 2008, 14:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by mclintox
Prices in $ ????

We took the official prices from AMD's and Intel's website to make it uniform.

mclintox 22nd December 2008, 14:36

Arrrrrrrrrr!

robi386 22nd December 2008, 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeMaltor
Quote:
Originally Posted by robi386
It's all good, but readers should know that not all E5200 chips OC so nicely.

At that 1.425V I can barely run mine at 3.3Ghz stable. It needs 1.475 for 3.4Ghz and is not stable with 1.5 at 3.5Ghz.

Probably just bad luck with the chip, tho, because usually they do OC better. But 4Ghz with 1.425 is still above average, IMO.

How do you know it's the chip? It could be your mobo, PSU, ram etc that are holding you back.

It shouldn't be RAM, since it runs at 880 no problem at default voltage. But with the CPU at 3400 and 1.45V it fails even with RAM at 750.

Motherboard could be, but it's kinda suspect that the only thing that makes the OC stable is increasing the CPU voltage. None of the other settings (NB, FSB, RAM voltage...) seem to help. Also, at 12.5x multi I use a rather low FSB, must be around 270 ish. I tried above 300 and it worked as well, so that shouldn't be a limit.

I have a cheap PSU, so that could be the problem. But I tried with another (also cheap-ish, tbh) and it fails at exactly the same settings, so I kinda doubt it's the PSU, would be too much of a coincidence.

The CPU also heats up more than an average one. At 1.425 and 3300Mhz full load it goes up to 70C with Core temp (-5 with Real temp), stock cooler. I read a few very similar complaints regarding the temperature, so it can't be just me or this particular CPU.
Not that I'm too worried about killing the CPU, tho. Maybe I'll get it replaced with a better one. ;) :D

robi386 22nd December 2008, 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bindibadgi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teq
tbh overclocking should not be the main basis for comparison, its always worth a mention but it does paint certain parts in an unnecessary bad light, especially when not all the parts have been overclocked during the value review...

True. But on the other end of the stick - people will complain how can we not include overclocking value because without it, the Intel is out of favour and yet most people who buy E5200s do so to overclock. We took a retail, off the shelf sample E5200 from Novatech, it's not like it was hand-picked from Intel either..

I agree that you should test the OC potential (perhaps with a word of warning, but users should know nothing is guaranteed, anyway).
Frankly: not OCing a current Intel CPU is a waste of money.

nightstalker 22nd December 2008, 14:48

yeah Intel Cpu´s are good at overclocking
i got my intel e4300 from 1.8ghz to 3.2ghz
primestable at 52°C and without raising the voltage

Bindibadgi 22nd December 2008, 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by robi386
It shouldn't be RAM, since it runs at 880 no problem at default voltage. But with the CPU at 3400 and 1.45V it fails even with RAM at 750.

Motherboard could be, but it's kinda suspect that the only thing that makes the OC stable is increasing the CPU voltage. None of the other settings (NB, FSB, RAM voltage...) seem to help. Also, at 12.5x multi I use a rather low FSB, must be around 270 ish. I tried above 300 and it worked as well, so that shouldn't be a limit.

I have a cheap PSU, so that could be the problem. But I tried with another (also cheap-ish, tbh) and it fails at exactly the same settings, so I kinda doubt it's the PSU, would be too much of a coincidence.

The CPU also heats up more than an average one. At 1.425 and 3300Mhz full load it goes up to 70C with Core temp (-5 with Real temp), stock cooler. I read a few very similar complaints regarding the temperature, so it can't be just me or this particular CPU.
Not that I'm too worried about killing the CPU, tho. Maybe I'll get it replaced with a better one. ;) :D

What motherboard are you using? and 65-70 is really, very warm.

You could have hit a FSB hole on the motherboard/CPU - jack it to 333 and clock down the multiplier. That should also allow 800MHz memory too.

robi386 22nd December 2008, 15:27

The motherboard is a GA-EP31-DS3L, rev. 1.
I'll try some more settings, but from what I remember using higher FSB only decreased stability and didn't help for the general OC.

tank_rider 22nd December 2008, 18:00

robi386 I have the same setup as the recommended hardware, except i have crucial ballistix memory. I am currently at 3.125 on 1.136V (reported in cpu-z). It does seem like you need very excessive voltages. I suggest maybe a different cooler, I'm running the akasa 965 (currently passive as the fan is dead) which keeps my temps below 60 full load (prime 95 4+ hours) with only case fans. When i get a replacement fan and some time to have a better play i'll try to remember to post my setting in here. As far as i can remember though, i'm at +0.1V for the fsb and mch.

bahgger 22nd December 2008, 19:15

Just adding my contributions..

GA-EP31-DS3L, rev. 1. on my side, and Corsair XMS DHXC4 2 x 2GB sticks with the E5200. Cooler is the OCZ one recommended by Bit-tech. PSU is a 560W Silverstone one just recently purchased.

So far stable at 3 Ghz, but playing around with the multiplier as 240MHz on the RAM seems to cause problems.

Doogal 22nd December 2008, 21:39

if I want a cheap cpu to oc then I'm going for the cheapest mobo that'll do the job, not a £150 monster.
the article would have been much more help if you could have suggested a _likely_ pairing for the wee beastie

(btw I have a new E5200 and am looking for a mobo that will give me the option of a mild oc)

Bindibadgi 22nd December 2008, 22:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doogal
if I want a cheap cpu to oc then I'm going for the cheapest mobo that'll do the job, not a £150 monster.
the article would have been much more help if you could have suggested a _likely_ pairing for the wee beastie

(btw I have a new E5200 and am looking for a mobo that will give me the option of a mild oc)

P5Q non-deluxe or Gigabyte EP45-UD3R/P have been good ones and can be had for £100.

The two boards were all I have to hand and were similarly priced. I wouldn't use the AMD Black Edition without the SB750 southbridge really - in which case you'd go for a 790GX northbridge instead.

For EP31 people - you need more FSB/VTT voltage and more northbridge voltage, but keep an eye on the temps. The board is likely your limiting factor.

Doogal 22nd December 2008, 23:13

Cheers for the reply & thanks for the articles :-) bit-tech is a great site!

robi386 25th December 2008, 00:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bindibadgi
For EP31 people - you need more FSB/VTT voltage and more northbridge voltage, but keep an eye on the temps. The board is likely your limiting factor.

Meh, I tried raising all the voltages. Only raising the CPU voltage helps.

Tried with lower multipliers = the same or worse.
For example, at 3300Mhz and 12.5 multi = prime95 stable for 12 hours.
3300Mhz and 12 multi = prime95 error after 15 minutes. (at even lower mem speed)
Also tried 333x10, but again errors in prime95 after 10 minutes.

BTW, I found a better program for testing stability: IntelBurnTest.
It found an error in that 12hour prime95 stable 3300MHz after 5 minutes. (Raised voltage just a little bit and it's ok now.)
It does stress the CPU more, it heats it up more than prime95 (by at least 5 degrees).
Some discussions about this program:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=197835
http://forums.techarp.com/overclocking-cooling-modding/24559-intelburntest-new-stress-testing-utility-your-overcooked-cpu.html
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/1034786.html
(Maybe it's old news to you guys, but I just found it so I have to share.)

[USRF]Obiwan 25th December 2008, 10:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by robi386

BTW, I found a better program for testing stability: IntelBurnTest.
It found an error in that 12hour prime95 stable 3300MHz after 5 minutes. (Raised voltage just a little bit and it's ok now.)
It does stress the CPU more, it heats it up more than prime95 (by at least 5 degrees).
Some discussions about this program:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=197835
http://forums.techarp.com/overclocking-cooling-modding/24559-intelburntest-new-stress-testing-utility-your-overcooked-cpu.html
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/1034786.html
(Maybe it's old news to you guys, but I just found it so I have to share.)

Nice find!

DarthElvis 25th January 2009, 02:31

http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=492200
Prime stable @ 8HRs, chip will bench at 3.4, but fails Prime -working on that. (cpu voltage is 1.4V, don't know why that never shows up.)
To the reviewers : Something was wrong with your AMD board methinks, I broke 2000HTT easily, and I'm nowhere near the professionals you are. The fact that a component failed is telling. Should have used another board.
Bottom line, for around a $100.00cdn, you can't go wrong with either chip. I just find AMD more fun.

Bindibadgi 25th January 2009, 11:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarthElvis
http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=492200
Prime stable @ 8HRs, chip will bench at 3.4, but fails Prime -working on that. (cpu voltage is 1.4V, don't know why that never shows up.)
To the reviewers : Something was wrong with your AMD board methinks, I broke 2000HTT easily, and I'm nowhere near the professionals you are. The fact that a component failed is telling. Should have used another board.
Bottom line, for around a $100.00cdn, you can't go wrong with either chip. I just find AMD more fun.

Sure thing :) I've got a DFI 790FX on at the moment but I'm having some serious overheating problems with it. To be honest, the MSI DK 790GX we have is not very good, but it's either that, a dead M3A79-T, a 4/10 Foxconn 790FX or this DFI I'm reviewing :(

DarthElvis 25th January 2009, 16:07

RMA the ASUS (and the DFI too for that matter). That way you can 'review' the whole process. If they're smart, they will be tripping over themselves to get you a confirmed and tested board.
Everybody runs into issues every now and then. If you look at the sheer complexity of today's technology, I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often.
Oh well, I'm just a green spec in this sea of blue.

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Athlon X2 7750 vs. Intel E5200 OC & Value

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