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What is the best UV water-cooling coolant?

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Combatus 18th March 2012, 20:43 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siwini
Umm... Guys, Feser One??

Its the most popular product used today, and yet somehow is missed in this article. Why?

We worked in partnership with Aquatuning on this one as they supplied the expensive gear we used to test the coolants and the coolants themselves - they don't stock Feser on their store afaik but tbh, we've heard some bad things about Feser coolants in the past so we'd be reluctant to include them anyway...

As for long term testing, this isn't something that's easily achieved with group tests of coolants - we stated in the testing methods that we only used one test system so long-term testing just wasn't feasible - you usually have to wait many months for anything nasty to happen, so testing like this could take over a year, even if you had two or three loops on the go. It's a limitation of our results, but it's one we'll all have to live with.
mayhem 19th March 2012, 15:39 Quote
Sorry but Feser is one of the best sellers world wide and should be tested, personal opinions do not count but reliable and unbiased approach to such testing should be done.

These tests are flawed completely as there is no consistency.

Your viewers and readers expect that professionalism and a unbiased approach on all you products you test this and your comments prove otherwise.
Combatus 19th March 2012, 17:17 Quote
Hi Mayhem. I'm not entirely sure how you think the results are flawed and why we lack constancy. We've flushed each coolant out and drained the system before using the next one, we used a digital thermometer to obtain a delta T, an industry-grade water flow meter to test the flow rates, and we used a single system and loop while the UV testing is a no-brainer. If it refers to the fact that Aquatuning provided the samples, well, this was in return for them providing the expensive test gear we used - we don't have the money for that kind of thing ourselves. As for the samples, they were shipped direct from their warehouse, so are exactly the same as anyone else would be able to purchase, and all arrived in sealed containers. This is all we've had time to test at the moment, we will get around to doing more and adding them to the data as we go along, but we wanted to make sure the test gear lived up to expectations.
Big Elf 19th March 2012, 17:51 Quote
For a start I'd expect the temp delta's to be virtually the same within 1ºC and certainly de-ionised water would not produce temps 10% hotter than another fluid in that test. Same goes for flow rates, they should be identical.
Combatus 19th March 2012, 18:32 Quote
I think the message to take away from the testing, and something I'll be stressing in future is that in the real world, there is next to no difference between coolants in terms of cooling or flow rate, and it certainly isn't something you should base your purchase on. Our test gear differs from any other outfit that has done it, so you can't compare results directly. However I'm not going to quibble over one or two degrees difference when the variation is so small - it's simply not worth getting all worked up about it because at the end of the day, it shouldn't impact on your purchase, which is why looks and performance take a lion's share of the scores.
Parge 20th March 2012, 08:41 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by mayhem

These tests are flawed completely as there is no consistency.

Your viewers and readers expect that professionalism and a unbiased approach on all you products you test this and your comments prove otherwise.


Its clearly impossible to test every single product on the market. Yes, Feser might be a very popular product, but it also has something of an inconsistent reputation. Mayhem, all you've done here is throw your toys out of the pram in front of your customers.

I can't remember seeing a UV water cooling roundup anywhere else ever, so I, for one would like to say thank you very much for the above article, its very useful indeed.
Big Elf 20th March 2012, 11:00 Quote
Mayhem was complaining because a competitors product wasn't included? Hardly throwing 'toys out of the pram'.

Although I've complained about Feser One in the past I've come to realise it was more likely plasticisers leaching from the tubing or other debris and being dyed giving the impression it's the fluid at fault, it might be, it might not.

Water cooling fluid roundup
mayhem 21st March 2012, 03:40 Quote
1) Feser was not included in the test - They are "THE" world number one resellers. (I strive to be as good as them if not better one day)

2) The fluid "UV Red" is out dated and i have a email showing from the company that supplied you from months back that that have had new stock and that I "personally" sorted the problem. yet they sent you a old sample. I have given you the chance to rectify this how ever you haven't responded (not toys out the pram but the truth)... I can all so tell you that tomorrow im actually heading down to our warehouse and im going to go though all the batches of UV Red to make sure they are UV active. Why because i care... And i believe in customer care not sales.

3) They are not all the same colour.

I have spent years proving that build up is not actually the fluid but other things such as plasticizer build up, inhibitors reacting to certain conditions and i've stood my ground all the time. I stand up for Feser because i have tested there fluids over and over again and had it tested at universities and biological labs (whom are capable of testing fluids properly) at a personal cost to me. Comments by you own mods are personal comments and are NOT the truth but hear say.

Some thing to note as well. I have kids, All though i can guarantee our fluids do not contain poisons from our testing and research i know for a fact some of the ones you tested are poisons and can cause liver failure if drunk (glycol based products). We Took steps to avoid any child drinking the product as a cost of only £0.26p per bottle by adding a child safety cap. This is my largest GRIPE with water cooling fluids and some thing reviews fail to mention.

I am a part owner of my company "Mayhems" and take a huge amount of pride in what i do and i all so take grate pride in the fact i am unbiased. We listen, we learn, we move forwards .... and I respond ...
KayinBlack 21st March 2012, 04:03 Quote
Mick has a point. In fact, he has several good ones.

Without testing all the same color, it's already not an apples to apples comparison. You can't extrapolate analogous color strength based on a single color, nor can you do so if they're not all the same color. Different color are differing brightnesses, as well. Blue is brighter than red. It's down to the chemicals used. It's a difficult thing to gauge if their red is gonna be good if you test a green, and so on. While I know you can't test all the colors (that's quite a test) testing all the same color would have given consistency to the testing. I believe this to be one of the major issues.

If you were supplied with old product, and one that had a known flaw, then the testing would have given a false negative. Think about B2 and B3 P67 boards. The SATA performance was horrible on the first rev, and they recalled them and replaced them. Mick recalled and replaced his fluid, and has offered a new bottle to prove his UV red is actually functional. As a reader, I'd be interested in knowing if the replaced red was any better than the previous one.

The mentions of other coolants in the "why not these?" is very understandable-I have never heard of half of the coolants, and the ones I did care to see weren't there. Mick asked about Feser One because they really are the biggest name in LC. Thermochill is a British company, and their EC6 is getting a lot of great press, plus it's perfectly safe. I understand, you tested what you were given-I'm a fellow tester, I have been handed things like that before. This is simply to add a bit of clarification as to the legitimacy of the questions and claims already espoused in this thread.

I, for one, appreciate the effort-it's not easy to organize something like this. I'm adding my support to the listed issues simply so you guys can learn and grow-I believe in helping, not hurting. There are plenty of us here that know lots about liquid cooling, and will gladly help if you guys want us to. Mick knows more than 95% at least of the liquid cooling world as far as coolant formulation goes-he's not trying to shill, he's trying to get people to learn more about what they use, whoever made it. I know plenty about the chemistry of loops, as well as block design. I'm betting there are plenty of others who have their areas of specialty, and we're all willing to help.

I wouldn't see this as a dig at you-it's certainly not intended to be. There were issues with the testing, and we feel we can help you guys figure out testing so the next time you guys have something to test you can get the most out of it.
mayhem 22nd March 2012, 01:17 Quote
@KayinBlack thank you for the back up. You are correct its not a go at the mods. It all so has a lot to do with pride in our product as well.

Today i went down to our ware house and we pulled every bottle of X1 UV Red out of the box's and i sat there for several Hours testing every single one. All the liquid pre- 02 (feb) are as stated in the review "not as UV active as they should be". we have now removed all these bottles we have and they are being trashed (no compromise we do not want these going out to re-sellers).

I am offering "ANY USER" of our product a bottle of "Mayhems 10ml UV Pink Dye" to boost there X1 UV Red that they have bought before this date. Please read blow of how to contact me. You do not need to send the bottle back to the re-seller, you can deal with me direct and i WILL personally resolve any issues you may have.

So

1) I apologise if you got a "bad batch".
2) We rectified this problem 2 in Feb 2012

How to get a bottle of 10ml Mayhems UV Pink dye

Please send me a personal email to michael (at) mayhems dot co uk
Please include a photo with you email address of the bottle
Please include your address in the email (for shipping)

I will send you out a new Bottle of 10ml UV pink that you may add to the X1 UV Red. You can use this to "Boost" the UV aspect of the X1 fluid.

We have now got double check sheets to make sure this never happens again.

Mick
rge 27th March 2012, 18:11 Quote
You can buy dallas 1 wire probes and a crystalfonz interface for $150, and measure intake ambients of each rad fan, and get very accurate core temps using average of core temps - avg ambient, if all recorded every 1 second. Pretty much the standard of doing any temperature testing, and allows repeatability within 0.2-0.3C.

The thermal conductance of water is 0.6 w/mK and specific heat is 4.18 kj/kg/k. Ethylene glycol thermal conductance is 0.26 w/mk and spec heat 2.2 kj/kg/k, and higher viscosity/lower flow than water. propylene glycol is lower even yet. Adding any of either to water lowers temps and worsen flow, period.

For example, since nanoxia hyper is ~98% distilled water with just anti-corrosives, had you accurately tested the temps it would have been within 0.1C of deionized water. The 2C you got difference is by definition your error.

When you publish that 5 coolants all tested better than water, it becomes systematic error, since odds that 5 would test better than water and 1 same with random error, is pretty small.

And when you have systematic error, one tends to discount everything you write, and the article becomes useless, except to those few who actually believe adding glycol or anticorrosives actually improve cooling, though that may have been your target audience.

Had you accurately tested, you would have found that all fluids that had 98% or higher distilled water would all have same temps within margin of normal testing error of 0.2C.

And any fluids that had ~ 15% ethylene glycol, would suffer about 1C worse temps than deionized water.

Had you not had the systematic error in temps, or had you accurately measured them, the take home point would have been these blingly fluids (which I use myself sometimes for pictures of builds) especially the ones that dont needlessly add glycol, ie just water/biocide/anticorrosives cool same as water. But when you have systematic error, I have to look at other reviews for things I am interested in (since I know temps by simply physics and reading ingredients) from a review I can trust.
mayhem 28th March 2012, 00:58 Quote
One thing we have never published is our results from temp testing as i personally believe that our results are useless and not accurate enough to be able to give a good comparison to other liquids.

How ever after talking to KayinBlack we are building a new accurate test system and have all the parts on order Being the crystalfonz system and using the white papers to increase the accuracy. How ever once again we dont know if we will publish the results as once again each system is different and no one will ever get the same results as we will nor will any reviewer.

bit-tech.net have now categorically stated that take the temp results with a pinch of salt and look at the colours. I agree 100% with that methodology. Water cooling has advanced so much that there is such a marginal difference that unless you have state of the art system temp difference do not matter and more over looks in a system seem to matter more.

Simple though if your after performance buy water, if you after looks go with dye or pre mixed liquids. All so take all manufacturers claims with the same pinch of salt to.

If how ever you would like to see Accurate testing then may i suggest you do as we do and pay £120 per sample to be tested. When you have tested every liquid on the market then publish your results. How ever you may wish for the total bill to be kept quiet ...
SmoothyGennat 29th June 2012, 12:46 Quote
Hi all,
and "Hi" to some old friends here on Bit-tech!!

I always get tears in my eyes when i read something like this. I wish all producer of liquids good luck to get a good coolingperformance. I know its not easy and it takes some time. The final test have to be done against the holy water of lourdes please! :-)
Mayem.. good luck!


TFC FESER-ONE
[WP@]WOLVERINE 29th June 2012, 17:42 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmoothyGennat
Hi all,
and "Hi" to some old friends here on Bit-tech!!

I always get tears in my eyes when i read something like this. I wish all producer of liquids good luck to get a good coolingperformance. I know its not easy and it takes some time. The final test have to be done against the holy water of lourdes please! :-)
Mayem.. good luck!


TFC FESER-ONE

Hey man nice to see that youre still alive and kicking. Im one of the people that was a bit surprised that feser wasnt in the test... It most certainly should have been
SmoothyGennat 29th June 2012, 18:36 Quote
Hi Wolverine,

nice to see u. I hope u feel fine!
This was my third post on 4 years Bit-tech lol,,, but u know i read a lot !
Most of the liquids in this Test are produced from the same manufactor.
Thats why its really hard to find out who will win. Mayhems is my personal favorite because he produce all those crazy colors ;) . The rest is....... :(


What about Brett ? U are still in contact ?
I am waiting for u to do some new mods in time!!

Martin
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