Which is funny, since you yourself bought us one from Yoyotech that we used in the performance review, which was £80. ;);) Prices have changed a little since I looked on Sunday it seems.
I was really looking forward to this review so thanks Bit-tech :-)
As for the comments from James, well that's something that should have been discussed directly with the Bit-Tech staff! Those comments have no place in these forums.
James would you like BT to have performed their review, then send it to you for editing before it's published online? This way you can ensure that only the products strengths are marketed. This is the problems with many review sites these days and is exactly the reason that BT's reader base continues to grow. We get unbiased reviews which help us choose the best components for our hard earned cash.
Originally Posted by Bindibadgi Which is funny, since you yourself bought us one from Yoyotech that we used in the performance review, which was £80. ;);) Prices have changed a little since I looked on Sunday it seems.
Which is funny, since you yourself bought us one from Yoyotech that we used in the performance review, which was £80. ;);) Prices have changed a little since I looked on Sunday it seems.
Originally Posted by zr_ox I was really looking forward to this review so thanks Bit-tech :-)
As for the comments from James, well that's something that should have been discussed directly with the Bit-Tech staff! Those comments have no place in these forums.
If you are wondering why we're on our fifth model, it's because of the radiator barbs. We've had a lot of discussion with CoolIT about the quality of these - and, frankly, we've heard excuse after excuse.
CoolIT presented us with two models originally, both of which CoolIT was happy for us to review. These two broke at either end of the radiator - one during an initial inspection and quality test, and the other while installing into a case.
A third and fourth were sent to us. One of which we demonstrated the lack of flexibility in front of the CoolIT guys. This even, admittedly, prompted some strong reactions from our guest as it was much easier than expected to pop.
Before even finishing the sentence explaining what I was doing, it had exploded water everywhere. I will maintain that with a relatively gentle thumb press at a perpendicular angle to the barb and it's very easily broken. In the real world, all it could take is to catch a thumb on the protruding tubing as you put a hand into your case to adjust something and you've got a pool of water quickly forming.
You can't build a decent performing, silent and quality wc for 75£, it is really that simple.
1)The fact that your company's quality assurance processes allowed defective products to be shipped, does not fill me with confidence.
2) Still vastly more expensive than the best air coolers.
3) One major UK PC builder will sell you a core i7 system with a 4670!!, hyperbolic marketing statements rule the roost in that market. Systems purchased by non-expert users are expected to be trouble free, the additional potential risk of water-cooling is not worth it for non power users, especially for a system that is matched in its overclocking potential by regular air-coolers.
4) A Ultra 120 with 2 x 88 cfm Yate Loons, would outperform your system, cost less and probably be quieter. I can't see the aforementioned cooler being any slower to install than the Domino. If you want to enter the water-cooling scene, and purchase a Domino that cannot outperform a £33 cooler, you will be laughed out of the room.
5) Your company should have made a product that retailed for slightly over £100, yet offered a 5 or more Celsius improvement over the best air coolers, a halfway house to a £200 Swifttech H20, that would have caught the eye of many enthusiasts.
1) They were samples, not production units. The issue was identified. Bit-tech was asked not to review with these replacement units. It was down to a error when shipping direct from North America.
2) Not vastly, but by a small margin yes.
3) Point still stands. The fact PC builders are using the technology plus over 40 glowing reviews with 25 awards (and counting) elsewhere is a sign that maybe the review on bit-tech doesn't quite value the Domino's true merits.
4) Not denying the Fenrir looks like a great cooler for the money, but that's not the point. The Domino offers some fantastic benefits as a closed loop, entry-level water cooling system that does the job very well.
5) CoolIT produces products just as you describe, for example a similar closed-loop setup using a 240mm rad instead. The Domino is designed to lower the barriers of entry for water cooling by making it as low cost as currently possible, easy to install, removing the need to maintain the system and of course offer the performance levels and a degree of customisation. Not forgetting the benefits such as monitoring/warning LCD, taking weight off the motherboard and reducing ambient temps in the PC.
3) The fact PC builders are using the technology plus over 40 glowing reviews with 25 awards (and counting) elsewhere is a sign that maybe the review on bit-tech doesn't quite value the Domino's true merits.
It seems to me that if you wanted a review for a prebuilt system you might have been better off getting one from macworld
*ducks the rotten fruit*
Bit has a long connection with the enthusiast market, not the pre-built area, they are also known for their extremely honest reviews (most of the reason I use their reviews). It doesn't seem, at least to me, that you should be complaining about the review that they made here on the forums, it is honesty reducing my view of your company's professionalism.
1) They were samples, not production units. The issue was identified. Bit-tech was asked not to review with these replacement units. It was down to a error when shipping direct from North America.
LOL.
You and I know this is a fabrication, James. If you're going to post this, then we could just as easily explain those "trade secrets" I refrained from mentioning in the review? Personally I'd thought we balanced a line between open and honesty to our readers, while refraining from divulging into the details of our conversations last Friday.
If you want to call me to discuss this then you know my number :):)
3) The fact PC builders are using the technology plus over 40 glowing reviews with 25 awards (and counting) elsewhere is a sign that maybe the review on bit-tech doesn't quite value the Domino's true merits.
It seems to me that if you wanted a review for a prebuilt system you might have been better off getting one from macworld
*ducks the rotten fruit*
Bit has a long connection with the enthusiast market, not the pre-built area, they are also known for their extremely honest reviews (most of the reason I use their reviews). It doesn't seem, at least to me, that you should be complaining about the review that they made here on the forums, it is honesty reducing my view of your company's professionalism.
You have got it in one, it's not a product for the water cooling enthusiast, but doesn't make it a bad product :)
Originally Posted by jamesadean 1) They were samples, not production units. The issue was identified. Bit-tech was asked not to review with these replacement units. It was down to a error when shipping direct from North America.
2) Not vastly, but by a small margin yes.
3) Point still stands. The fact PC builders are using the technology plus over 40 glowing reviews with 25 awards (and counting) elsewhere is a sign that maybe the review on bit-tech doesn't quite value the Domino's true merits.
4) Not denying the Fenrir looks like a great cooler for the money, but that's not the point. The Domino offers some fantastic benefits as a closed loop, entry-level water cooling system that does the job very well.
5) CoolIT produces products just as you describe, for example a similar closed-loop setup using a 240mm rad instead. The Domino is designed to lower the barriers of entry for water cooling by making it as low cost as currently possible, easy to install, removing the need to maintain the system and of course offer the performance levels and a degree of customisation. Not forgetting the benefits such as monitoring/warning LCD, taking weight off the motherboard and reducing ambient temps in the PC.
i wont comment on all of these responses. But 2) with regard to price, how is something costing twice as much as an equivalent(based on performance) not vastly more expensive.
3) You say that pc builders are using them, who, or did i miss that slither of information? Is dell using them in their xps machine, or alienware? Or is it bill and ben sitting in their shed who make pc's in their spare time using them just so that as a pr man you can tell customers that the pre built machines manufacturers are using them?
4) and 5) just sound like marketing blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, "The domino lowers the barriers for those looking to watercool", really, it gives them a solution, but in all honesty someone who wants to watercool, will probably want their gpu done too as they run hot, and using the domino teaches nothing to anyone interested in watercooling. To me it will sell to those not interested in w/c, but those who are easily misled by the aforementioned bill & ben who will say w/c offers fantastic benefits with a closed loop just so they can charge the customer for it when they order the pc.
A watercooling solution for a non uber high spec massively overclocked machine is overkill and with those poor 'snap off' (you're f$$$ed now) fittings it could be more hassle than its worth imo.
oh yeh i forgot, 40 reviews and 25 glowing awards or whatever doesnt mean s££t if the reviewer hasn't got the credentials that warrant the judgement. I could write a review and stick it on a my site www.thislinkdoesntworkgoonclickitseewhathappensdumba$$.com and you'd take it and say it has as much merit as if bt had given it a good review so do us a favour and save the 25 awards for your mag add that will sucker the unknowing into buying your product, not on a hardware enthusiast site like bt, please.
The fact of the matter is that from what i've read from bindi's experience your product is a fail really... its the closest thing to a face palm i could find.
Originally Posted by mrb_no1 "The domino lowers the barriers for those looking to watercool", really, it gives them a solution, but in all honesty someone who wants to watercool, will probably want their gpu done too as they run hot, and using the domino teaches nothing to anyone interested in watercooling.
You've hit a good point there - the Domino helps reduce the ambient temps of the PC by shifting the heat right out the back of the rig, so it will inadvertently help keep the graphics cards cooler too :)
Obviously if you have to have a pr guy come onto a comments section and defend your product then something is wrong. If it was so great and so awesome winning awards left and right then who cares what one review site thinks right? Like everyone else has said I like bit-tech because they are honest and some people dont like that (pr guys @ coolit *cough cough*). I will def. be passing on this product as it offers not better performance over air colling and for more money. No thanks.
It seems to me that you're giving the product a way too tough time.
It seems rather unprofessional to compare Delta T temperatures. I don't think that differences in ambient temperature are affecting CPU temperature linear (for example, if the ambient temp is 25C and the CPU's 45C, it doesn't mean that when the ambient temp is 30C then the CPU would be 50C). It's only natural, that you compare them in a controlled enviroment at one time, since this can be achieved with a conventional air conditioner...
The medium setting of the fan is less noisier than the Titan Fernir. Its db level is around 30db, which is perfectly acceptable. Obviously not for Richard ;) "I have to say only the lowest the suitable for those wanting a quiet build." Those who want a quiet build wouldn't go the quadcore road, i presume...
And another thing - if, lets say Intel, sends you an ES i7 and it doesn't overclock much would you go ahead and give it low marks? I'm not quite sure who is telling the truth but if the first samples were preproduction ones it seems very unprofessional to include the impressions gathered from them in the final product review...
But isn't that ambient temperature topic something James keeps bringing up as well?
Anyways, I find it sad that it had to turn out like this. Let's just end this discussion by saying that BT wasn't impressed by the product, you disagree and by the way you showed this we weren't impressed.
Just leave it now. Get over it, it's not that it's bad, just not up to the standards of an enthusiast's site/forum.
Originally Posted by vanu It seems to me that you're giving the product a way too tough time.
It seems rather unprofessional to compare Delta T temperatures. I don't think that differences in ambient temperature are affecting CPU temperature linear (for example, if the ambient temp is 25C and the CPU's 45C, it doesn't mean that when the ambient temp is 30C then the CPU would be 50C). It's only natural, that you compare them in a controlled enviroment at one time, since this can be achieved with a conventional air conditioner...
The medium setting of the fan is less noisier than the Titan Fernir. Its db level is around 30db, which is perfectly acceptable. Obviously not for Richard ;) "I have to say only the lowest the suitable for those wanting a quiet build." Those who want a quiet build wouldn't go the quadcore road, i presume...
And another thing - if, lets say Intel, sends you an ES i7 and it doesn't overclock much would you go ahead and give it low marks? I'm not quite sure who is telling the truth but if the first samples were preproduction ones it seems very unprofessional to include the impressions gathered from them in the final product review...
All testing performed in an air conditioned environment where the temperature only varies between 21°C and 24°C. The fact that we measure Delta Ts and not temperatures was not only requested by the readership, but has also been approved of my many in the industry, including, CoolIT when they stopped by last week.
Your posts are sounding more and more like desperate purchase justification, and if you think the CoolIT on medium is "quiet" when your CPU is at full load then you are very much mistaken. An Akasa Nero is miles quieter (a £25 air cooler), and Noctua P12 120mm fan is quieter still. We've reviewed some of the best coolers out there and compare them all to each other - the Domino comes off badly in comparison to what's available from air coolers and there's no bones about it. We're not going to go easy on it just because it's water cooling for cheap.
In regards to our approach to the product "early samples," my understanding is we were given samples from the same batch of stock that first went on sale in the UK and were told these were release standard review samples. If we're handed a product for review, a product that is already on sale, we're going to approach it as if we've just spent our hard earned cash on it ourselves.
The Domino ALC was first launched in December last year. I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I'm struggling to see how the units we were sent could be production samples (or whatever they want to be referred to):
Calgary, Alberta – December 18th, 2008 – CoolIT Systems announces Domino Advanced Liquid Cooling (ALC) that offers the technological advantages employed by high-end liquid cooling solutions of superior performance, quiet protection and years of maintenance-free operation that cannot be achieved by similarly priced heat sink/fan combinations. The unprecedented integrated status display and controls provide users with the ability to easily switch between multiple operation modes satisfying the need for quiet or the desire for overclocking performance.
I've just canceled the order on the Domino under your influence... The $53 Fenrir is on the way. I really wanted to give the idea a chance, support it by buying one. Maybe in time there will be a bigger unit, better pump, bigger radiator for a better price. Having read the comments I couldn't convince myself that I've made the right choice so it's no suprise I couldn't convince you all :(
Well, in the end of the day it's common sense that gives us hope and I'm happy that it has prevailed in me.
I don't think we'll ever see a 'good', low cost water cooling system. It's just logical - an air cooler only requires a series of fins (flat metal, easy), heatpipes, a contact block and a mounting mechanism. All fairly straight forward, no moving parts, no water-tight parts needed.
Watercooling needs a
Block - contact block, clock cover, mounting mechanism,
Pump - pump housing, impeller (asuming its magnetic drive and there's no bearings)
Radiator - fins (lots of), water pipes (lots of), chamber, and casing.
The whole lot needs connected with tube, fittings, and some sort of clamp. It's a much more complex system, and accordingly if you are designing a cheap system it has to have compromises, because you either can't use as good materials (eg plastic fittings) or have to have simpler parts (like simpler cpu block machining).
I think we'll always see a price void between high end air coolers and a 'reasonable quality' water cooling system. This product has had a good go at getting the right price to fill the void, but it's missed the noise and temp benefits that make a watercooling system attractive.
Comments 26 to 50 of 67
Replyimpossible.
Which is funny, since you yourself bought us one from Yoyotech that we used in the performance review, which was £80. ;);) Prices have changed a little since I looked on Sunday it seems.
http://www.yoyotech.co.uk/coolit-domino-cooler-p-1581126.html
http://www.pixmania.co.uk/uk/uk/2681149/art/coolit-systems/domino-a-l-c-liquid-cooli.html?srcid=867
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=WC-001-CI
At £70, it's only 105 percent more expensive than the Titan, and only 2C better (at full load, not to mention "low" noise). :)
As for the comments from James, well that's something that should have been discussed directly with the Bit-Tech staff! Those comments have no place in these forums.
James would you like BT to have performed their review, then send it to you for editing before it's published online? This way you can ensure that only the products strengths are marketed. This is the problems with many review sites these days and is exactly the reason that BT's reader base continues to grow. We get unbiased reviews which help us choose the best components for our hard earned cash.
:-D
Owned
If you looked at the receipt it actually said £70!
Sadly, we did :|
You can't build a decent performing, silent and quality wc for 75£, it is really that simple.
1) They were samples, not production units. The issue was identified. Bit-tech was asked not to review with these replacement units. It was down to a error when shipping direct from North America.
2) Not vastly, but by a small margin yes.
3) Point still stands. The fact PC builders are using the technology plus over 40 glowing reviews with 25 awards (and counting) elsewhere is a sign that maybe the review on bit-tech doesn't quite value the Domino's true merits.
4) Not denying the Fenrir looks like a great cooler for the money, but that's not the point. The Domino offers some fantastic benefits as a closed loop, entry-level water cooling system that does the job very well.
5) CoolIT produces products just as you describe, for example a similar closed-loop setup using a 240mm rad instead. The Domino is designed to lower the barriers of entry for water cooling by making it as low cost as currently possible, easy to install, removing the need to maintain the system and of course offer the performance levels and a degree of customisation. Not forgetting the benefits such as monitoring/warning LCD, taking weight off the motherboard and reducing ambient temps in the PC.
It seems to me that if you wanted a review for a prebuilt system you might have been better off getting one from macworld
*ducks the rotten fruit*
Bit has a long connection with the enthusiast market, not the pre-built area, they are also known for their extremely honest reviews (most of the reason I use their reviews). It doesn't seem, at least to me, that you should be complaining about the review that they made here on the forums, it is honesty reducing my view of your company's professionalism.
http://www.yoyotech.co.uk/coolit-domino-cooler-p-1581126.html
Says £80.72 including VAT there mate.
LOL.
You and I know this is a fabrication, James. If you're going to post this, then we could just as easily explain those "trade secrets" I refrained from mentioning in the review? Personally I'd thought we balanced a line between open and honesty to our readers, while refraining from divulging into the details of our conversations last Friday.
If you want to call me to discuss this then you know my number :):)
You have got it in one, it's not a product for the water cooling enthusiast, but doesn't make it a bad product :)
i wont comment on all of these responses. But 2) with regard to price, how is something costing twice as much as an equivalent(based on performance) not vastly more expensive.
3) You say that pc builders are using them, who, or did i miss that slither of information? Is dell using them in their xps machine, or alienware? Or is it bill and ben sitting in their shed who make pc's in their spare time using them just so that as a pr man you can tell customers that the pre built machines manufacturers are using them?
4) and 5) just sound like marketing blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, "The domino lowers the barriers for those looking to watercool", really, it gives them a solution, but in all honesty someone who wants to watercool, will probably want their gpu done too as they run hot, and using the domino teaches nothing to anyone interested in watercooling. To me it will sell to those not interested in w/c, but those who are easily misled by the aforementioned bill & ben who will say w/c offers fantastic benefits with a closed loop just so they can charge the customer for it when they order the pc.
A watercooling solution for a non uber high spec massively overclocked machine is overkill and with those poor 'snap off' (you're f$$$ed now) fittings it could be more hassle than its worth imo.
oh yeh i forgot, 40 reviews and 25 glowing awards or whatever doesnt mean s££t if the reviewer hasn't got the credentials that warrant the judgement. I could write a review and stick it on a my site www.thislinkdoesntworkgoonclickitseewhathappensdumba$$.com and you'd take it and say it has as much merit as if bt had given it a good review so do us a favour and save the 25 awards for your mag add that will sucker the unknowing into buying your product, not on a hardware enthusiast site like bt, please.
The fact of the matter is that from what i've read from bindi's experience your product is a fail really... its the closest thing to a face palm i could find.
PWNED
peace out,
fatman
that's not too bad
You've hit a good point there - the Domino helps reduce the ambient temps of the PC by shifting the heat right out the back of the rig, so it will inadvertently help keep the graphics cards cooler too :)
It seems rather unprofessional to compare Delta T temperatures. I don't think that differences in ambient temperature are affecting CPU temperature linear (for example, if the ambient temp is 25C and the CPU's 45C, it doesn't mean that when the ambient temp is 30C then the CPU would be 50C). It's only natural, that you compare them in a controlled enviroment at one time, since this can be achieved with a conventional air conditioner...
The medium setting of the fan is less noisier than the Titan Fernir. Its db level is around 30db, which is perfectly acceptable. Obviously not for Richard ;) "I have to say only the lowest the suitable for those wanting a quiet build." Those who want a quiet build wouldn't go the quadcore road, i presume...
And another thing - if, lets say Intel, sends you an ES i7 and it doesn't overclock much would you go ahead and give it low marks? I'm not quite sure who is telling the truth but if the first samples were preproduction ones it seems very unprofessional to include the impressions gathered from them in the final product review...
Anyways, I find it sad that it had to turn out like this. Let's just end this discussion by saying that BT wasn't impressed by the product, you disagree and by the way you showed this we weren't impressed.
Just leave it now. Get over it, it's not that it's bad, just not up to the standards of an enthusiast's site/forum.
All testing performed in an air conditioned environment where the temperature only varies between 21°C and 24°C. The fact that we measure Delta Ts and not temperatures was not only requested by the readership, but has also been approved of my many in the industry, including, CoolIT when they stopped by last week.
Your posts are sounding more and more like desperate purchase justification, and if you think the CoolIT on medium is "quiet" when your CPU is at full load then you are very much mistaken. An Akasa Nero is miles quieter (a £25 air cooler), and Noctua P12 120mm fan is quieter still. We've reviewed some of the best coolers out there and compare them all to each other - the Domino comes off badly in comparison to what's available from air coolers and there's no bones about it. We're not going to go easy on it just because it's water cooling for cheap.
In regards to our approach to the product "early samples," my understanding is we were given samples from the same batch of stock that first went on sale in the UK and were told these were release standard review samples. If we're handed a product for review, a product that is already on sale, we're going to approach it as if we've just spent our hard earned cash on it ourselves.
Press Release
Availability must have been close, because reviews appeared on the 19th: http://www.futurelooks.com/coolit-domino-alc-cpu-cooler-review/
Well, in the end of the day it's common sense that gives us hope and I'm happy that it has prevailed in me.
Watercooling needs a
Block - contact block, clock cover, mounting mechanism,
Pump - pump housing, impeller (asuming its magnetic drive and there's no bearings)
Radiator - fins (lots of), water pipes (lots of), chamber, and casing.
The whole lot needs connected with tube, fittings, and some sort of clamp. It's a much more complex system, and accordingly if you are designing a cheap system it has to have compromises, because you either can't use as good materials (eg plastic fittings) or have to have simpler parts (like simpler cpu block machining).
I think we'll always see a price void between high end air coolers and a 'reasonable quality' water cooling system. This product has had a good go at getting the right price to fill the void, but it's missed the noise and temp benefits that make a watercooling system attractive.
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