Originally Posted by Tim S I can't wait to see a slew of mods based on this chassis.
It's only natural. There will be a slew of them too! It just looks like a bloody perfect chassis to work with. Really, there just isn't much I'd change on it, other than the quick-release drive rail things. I've never liked those. I'm an old school screws-through-holes kinda guy. :)
At first when I started seeing spy pics of this chassis creeping up on the net, and seeing that they put the two large fans up top, I was like, "oh great....no rad support..." I'm glad my suspicions were unfounded! Nice of Cooler Master to do that. It seems very modular and flexible with what you can do with it.
Originally Posted by StephenK Any thoughts on increasing the air cooling performance? Although this looks like an opportunity for me to try my hand a watercooling maybe :)
A truly top quality case though. Beautiful :)
It certainly seems that cases with side panel intakes get a huge boost in air cooling performance - the HAF 932 and the akasa Omega both use this to good effect. Cut a 230mm blow hole into that nice big side panel and i'm sure you'd see temperatures better than those we say in HAF 932.
I was gonna say the same thing, every time I remove the side panel the temps spike up few degrees on the 932.
Planning a mod based on this case right now, just waiting for them to release it so I can get one in and start putting it into CAD and then start designing the mod.
its a beautiful case in an of itself, but is probably the only case ever to make me want it no matter how much it costs.
That's one of the most impressive Coolermaster cases I've seen in a long time. (I've bought 3 Silverstone cases in a row).
I do wonder about those thermal tests though. Surely most people here choose their own case cooling based on their system - rather than using what the manufacturer provides?
Speaking of Silverstone... I'm hoping this rather tasty case will keep them on their toes. I've always though Lian Li were better for workstation type machines tather than gaming...
Has anyone noticed that the noise from really big fans is fine in the same room, but can be quite loud through walls and floors? (especially wood floors.) It seemed with one of my old systems that the hum could be heard in other rooms, but in the same room it was whisper quiet... Maybe just that house.
Originally Posted by Tile Several people that work with high-performance parts told me that the longitudinal hard drive cage is the better design. Another thing that I don't like is the non-standard fans and when they wear out you're out of luck trying to get a replacement.
And they design cases that ship hundreds of thousands--if not millions--of units?
I can't tell; are the HDDs soft mounted? Is the typical aluminum "hum" still present? What are mechanical acoustics like (HDDs, bearings, panel rattle, internal fans- clicking, buzzing, etc.)? Do the fans have any unwanted acoustic characteristics?
Originally Posted by Tile Another niggle this time with the review itself is the 404 error when trying to open the 4th image on the 2nd page.
Can't help but feel that someone is just looking for problems :p
Actually Tile was right on that one, and wanted to comment on that but forgot, the colon was missing from the file name so. imagejpg instead of image.jpg. Easy to spot this yourself.
About the comments on the HD rack, I can imagine the hatred for this like i have a natural rage against any consoles. I stopped whining about that a while ago. Instead Tile could just buy the case and mod his own HD cage version into it. Problem solved.
You should make another CPU temperature test but make airflow guide from (for example) cardboard which forces top exhaust fans to draw air only from above CPU instead of everywhere.
One user reported 10C CPU temp drop with such arrangement in Cosmos so uncontrolled airflow isn't minor thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeSean Has anyone noticed that the noise from really big fans is fine in the same room, but can be quite loud through walls and floors? (especially wood floors.) It seemed with one of my old systems that the hum could be heard in other rooms, but in the same room it was whisper quiet... Maybe just that house.
Big low speed fans generate more harder to hear low frequency noise which penetrates walls and structures better.
Low frequency noise (basically vibration of molecules) might make some objects to vibrate at their resonant frequency making it audible, also size of room etc could amplify it at certain position. (try positioning speaker at different distances from wall and listen behaviour of low frequencies)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Furymouse Hows the connection of the front IO to the mobo when you pull the tray out? Is it necessary to disconnect those before you pull the tray?
Isn't there general rule for these situations: Not if you can stretch cables enough! :D
Originally Posted by Tile From now on I will be absolutely pasive around the forums.
Nobody said you should not comment, they asked you to stop spamming all of the case reviews with the same groundless nonsense.
It's not just here though, you've been spamming the Xtremesystems forums with the same rubbish, everyone over there is telling you the same though...It makes...no...difference!!!
What nobody seems to understand is why you wont stop, to make matters worse I dont know how many of us with traversley mounted hard drives tell you that it's not a problem! However you still fail to listen and are adamant that some high tech hardware guy told you that such mounting increases the chance of failure!
Well most modern hard disks have manufacturers warranties which state operating temperatures from 5 to 55 degrees C! You can wrap your disk in a plastic bag and it'd probably be fine! Hard disks are probably the component in your computer which require the least amount of cooling!
Now stop the madness! Until you have some hard evidence and not just some hearsay, on second thoughts perhaps you can contact Adam & Jamie and ask them to clear this up once and for all!
Originally Posted by zr_ox on second thoughts perhaps you can contact Adam & Jamie and ask them to clear this up once and for all!
please don't, there are enough people taking their crap as scientific evidence when half of it has no science whatsoever to it.
admittedly some of it is decently interesting, but lacks the depth required for serious testing or proof. (most likely due to their time and budget constraints, as well as requiring entertainment value)
Originally Posted by zr_ox Well most modern hard disks have manufacturers warranties which state operating temperatures from 5 to 55 degrees C! You can wrap your disk in a plastic bag and it'd probably be fine! Hard disks are probably the component in your computer which require the least amount of cooling!
At work, we enclose hard disk drives in near-unvented solid aluminium enclosures and they withstand 24 hours of 50 centigrade in the oven. Disk drives are quite dandy things, until you shake them.
For those looking for a quiet case - take the review findings here about case noise with a HUGE grain of salt. The problem: as was the case with the HAF test, a passively cooled GPU was used inthe build by bit-tech. As anyone knows who's done a high end build in the last three years using a decently quiet fan on their CPU cooler, by FAR the major source of noise in a high end gaming system (aside from case fans) is the fan on any current high end GPU - it completely masks the HD and CPU sounds. So from this review, we know the case fans are quiet; but what we can't know is if the case is any good at masking fan noise from a GPU card. Other reviews of the HAF out there make it very clear that (contrary to the view expressed in the bit-tech review) that case if very noisy when used with a high end video card as its honeycombed case does nothing to muffle sound. Hopefully the 840 is better in this regard due to its more solid construction but there is no way of knowing from this review, and the two large blowholes at the top of this case could let a lot of the GPU sound escape. We will have to await other reviews before knowing; too bad given the quantitative comparisons bit-tech runs don't test for this crucial factor .
The fact that you buy high end cards knowing what kind of noise they generate and they only kick things up a notch when you're gaming anyway - how many of us game with headphones or nice, loud speakers? (how many people own 360s and tolerate that?)
We test the case on what the case is - we can't account for every single setup unfortunately so we rate on one uniform one to ascertain apples to apples comparatives. You have made a good point, although your wording is somewhat harsh in criticism, and we welcome your opinion. Maybe we should test an SLI setup and four hard drives in the future for larger cases to understand the vibration deadening or masking effects. Generally if you fill it with sound deadening then the case becomes an oven - so you sacrifice on cooling and a potential overclock perhaps - or if you make the sides thicker to compensate the case is so heavy you need a forklift to move it (P190 here). What's the correct answer - built like a tank and super expensive? enclosed and foaming in but very hot or ventilated and open to vibration permittivity?
The HAF specifically is called high air flow for a reason - it's designed to cool, not to be a concrete block. The ACTS 840 is somewhere in between this - Antec P190 territory - a bit of a medium, but without the extreme weight so much and wider to make it easier to work with (I have a P190 under my desk FYI).
If you want to work towards silence you invest in a cooling kit and the build as a whole to make it possible. This is the same as ANY build - you balance the budget according to your needs. You watercool everything and keep the large fans to a minimum or use multiple radiators, or look for alternative aftermarket coolers if possible. Vadim used to cool highly overclocked cases with tons of radiators and very quiet fans in this way and it was hugely successful (albeit expensive).
Originally Posted by DevonK For those looking for a quiet case - take the review findings here about case noise with a HUGE grain of salt. The problem: as was the case with the HAF test, a passively cooled GPU was used inthe build by bit-tech. As anyone knows who's done a high end build in the last three years using a decently quiet fan on their CPU cooler, by FAR the major source of noise in a high end gaming system (aside from case fans) is the fan on any current high end GPU - it completely masks the HD and CPU sounds. So from this review, we know the case fans are quiet; but what we can't know is if the case is any good at masking fan noise from a GPU card. Other reviews of the HAF out there make it very clear that (contrary to the view expressed in the bit-tech review) that case if very noisy when used with a high end video card as its honeycombed case does nothing to muffle sound. Hopefully the 840 is better in this regard due to its more solid construction but there is no way of knowing from this review, and the two large blowholes at the top of this case could let a lot of the GPU sound escape. We will have to await other reviews before knowing; too bad given the quantitative comparisons bit-tech runs don't test for this crucial factor .
LOL. Personally, I ALWAYS change off the stock cooler on my GPU's, and it's usually a waterblock. So, to me your argument is a moot point. Bindi's points underline that fact.
I have nothing but confidence in Cooler Master's design team, especially when they slap the ATCS logo on it.
Originally Posted by DevonK For those looking for a quiet case - take the review findings here about case noise with a HUGE grain of salt. The problem: as was the case with the HAF test, a passively cooled GPU was used inthe build by bit-tech. As anyone knows who's done a high end build in the last three years using a decently quiet fan on their CPU cooler, by FAR the major source of noise in a high end gaming system (aside from case fans) is the fan on any current high end GPU - it completely masks the HD and CPU sounds. So from this review, we know the case fans are quiet; but what we can't know is if the case is any good at masking fan noise from a GPU card. Other reviews of the HAF out there make it very clear that (contrary to the view expressed in the bit-tech review) that case if very noisy when used with a high end video card as its honeycombed case does nothing to muffle sound. Hopefully the 840 is better in this regard due to its more solid construction but there is no way of knowing from this review, and the two large blowholes at the top of this case could let a lot of the GPU sound escape. We will have to await other reviews before knowing; too bad given the quantitative comparisons bit-tech runs don't test for this crucial factor .
Personally, that doesn't matter one whit to me. What does matter is HDD mounting, since there's so little I can do to alter it. High-end GPU? It's in my loop, and 700 RPM Slipstreams are VERY quiet ;)
I'd also like some idea of how this case responds to system vibration, since aluminum has a tendency to "hum" and amplify vibration noise rather than damp it. It's why my last three cases have been steel.
Originally Posted by Bindibadgi The fact that you buy high end cards knowing what kind of noise they generate and they only kick things up a notch when you're gaming anyway - how many of us game with headphones or nice, loud speakers? (how many people own 360s and tolerate that?)
We test the case on what the case is - we can't account for every single setup unfortunately so we rate on one uniform one to ascertain apples to apples comparatives. You have made a good point, although your wording is somewhat harsh in criticism, and we welcome your opinion. Maybe we should test an SLI setup and four hard drives in the future for larger cases to understand the vibration deadening or masking effects. Generally if you fill it with sound deadening then the case becomes an oven - so you sacrifice on cooling and a potential overclock perhaps - or if you make the sides thicker to compensate the case is so heavy you need a forklift to move it (P190 here). What's the correct answer - built like a tank and super expensive? enclosed and foaming in but very hot or ventilated and open to vibration permittivity?
:)
You make some good (if fairly well known) points about building a quiet(er) system. However many of us don't want the cost and hassle of building and maintaining a water-cooled system (many of which are not that quiet anyway with their radiator fans), and the current generation of top-end video cards such as the 280 and 4870 do not yet have alternative quiet air coolers readily available, so testing higher end cases for their abilty to dampen video card noise would seem a useful part of a complete test. It's highly unlikely that the typical purchaser of this case is going to use a passive air-cooled GPU - it's a high-end case and will likely house a high-end video card (none of which can be passively air cooled). And only a small minority of folk choose to water-cool. So I'm just saying "test for the typical user". A cardinal principle that applies to any usability testing is to "know thy user and his needs" and shape your evaluation protocol accordingly. Most of us use our computers for purposes that go beyond gaming, and we don't want to have speakers blasting or headphones on all the time to mask system noise. So knowing the balance between GPU fan noise damping capacity and heat dissipation efficiency for a given case is valuable information for the prospective buyer.
I do appreciate your efforts to quantify heat dissipation efficiencies in your case comparisons, that is certainly a big step up from most case testing seen on the web.
I must say that I've used high-performance dual radiator watercooling setups with upwards of ten 120mm fans in the system that were literally inaudible - the loudest thing was the power supply and that wasn't exactly loud by any stretch as it was a so-called 'silent' unit (no, it wasn't silent, but it wasn't noisy and was inaudible above background noise at approx 1m). Those that turn the fans up on their watercooling loops don't actually want silence, they're after even higher performance. :)
The only time a watercooling kit I've used actually made noise that stood out above background noise was when I was using one of those pre-built 'watercooling in a box' kits. If you spend time investigating and planning a good watercooling loop, it will be silent if you want it to be.
Originally Posted by E.E.L. Ambiense I have nothing but confidence in Cooler Master's design team, especially when they slap the ATCS logo on it.
I'll put it this way - we don't recommend something unless we genuinely want one, and we were fighting (drawing straws) about who was going to keep the 840 until Cooler Master decided it wanted it back :(
Comments 26 to 50 of 71
ReplyIt's only natural. There will be a slew of them too! It just looks like a bloody perfect chassis to work with. Really, there just isn't much I'd change on it, other than the quick-release drive rail things. I've never liked those. I'm an old school screws-through-holes kinda guy. :)
At first when I started seeing spy pics of this chassis creeping up on the net, and seeing that they put the two large fans up top, I was like, "oh great....no rad support..." I'm glad my suspicions were unfounded! Nice of Cooler Master to do that. It seems very modular and flexible with what you can do with it.
Any loose parts of a case vibrating can drive you nuts when trying to silence a system.
they're TINY and very very well fitted - we didn't notice any vibration from them at all throughout our testing.
I was gonna say the same thing, every time I remove the side panel the temps spike up few degrees on the 932.
its a beautiful case in an of itself, but is probably the only case ever to make me want it no matter how much it costs.
I do wonder about those thermal tests though. Surely most people here choose their own case cooling based on their system - rather than using what the manufacturer provides?
Speaking of Silverstone... I'm hoping this rather tasty case will keep them on their toes. I've always though Lian Li were better for workstation type machines tather than gaming...
Has anyone noticed that the noise from really big fans is fine in the same room, but can be quite loud through walls and floors? (especially wood floors.) It seemed with one of my old systems that the hum could be heard in other rooms, but in the same room it was whisper quiet... Maybe just that house.
And they design cases that ship hundreds of thousands--if not millions--of units?
Can you tell I'm a quiet nut? ;)
Can't help but feel that someone is just looking for problems :p
Actually Tile was right on that one, and wanted to comment on that but forgot, the colon was missing from the file name so. imagejpg instead of image.jpg. Easy to spot this yourself.
About the comments on the HD rack, I can imagine the hatred for this like i have a natural rage against any consoles. I stopped whining about that a while ago. Instead Tile could just buy the case and mod his own HD cage version into it. Problem solved.
One user reported 10C CPU temp drop with such arrangement in Cosmos so uncontrolled airflow isn't minor thing.
Low frequency noise (basically vibration of molecules) might make some objects to vibrate at their resonant frequency making it audible, also size of room etc could amplify it at certain position. (try positioning speaker at different distances from wall and listen behaviour of low frequencies)
Nobody said you should not comment, they asked you to stop spamming all of the case reviews with the same groundless nonsense.
It's not just here though, you've been spamming the Xtremesystems forums with the same rubbish, everyone over there is telling you the same though...It makes...no...difference!!!
What nobody seems to understand is why you wont stop, to make matters worse I dont know how many of us with traversley mounted hard drives tell you that it's not a problem! However you still fail to listen and are adamant that some high tech hardware guy told you that such mounting increases the chance of failure!
Well most modern hard disks have manufacturers warranties which state operating temperatures from 5 to 55 degrees C! You can wrap your disk in a plastic bag and it'd probably be fine! Hard disks are probably the component in your computer which require the least amount of cooling!
Now stop the madness! Until you have some hard evidence and not just some hearsay, on second thoughts perhaps you can contact Adam & Jamie and ask them to clear this up once and for all!
please don't, there are enough people taking their crap as scientific evidence when half of it has no science whatsoever to it.
admittedly some of it is decently interesting, but lacks the depth required for serious testing or proof. (most likely due to their time and budget constraints, as well as requiring entertainment value)
We test the case on what the case is - we can't account for every single setup unfortunately so we rate on one uniform one to ascertain apples to apples comparatives. You have made a good point, although your wording is somewhat harsh in criticism, and we welcome your opinion. Maybe we should test an SLI setup and four hard drives in the future for larger cases to understand the vibration deadening or masking effects. Generally if you fill it with sound deadening then the case becomes an oven - so you sacrifice on cooling and a potential overclock perhaps - or if you make the sides thicker to compensate the case is so heavy you need a forklift to move it (P190 here). What's the correct answer - built like a tank and super expensive? enclosed and foaming in but very hot or ventilated and open to vibration permittivity?
The HAF specifically is called high air flow for a reason - it's designed to cool, not to be a concrete block. The ACTS 840 is somewhere in between this - Antec P190 territory - a bit of a medium, but without the extreme weight so much and wider to make it easier to work with (I have a P190 under my desk FYI).
If you want to work towards silence you invest in a cooling kit and the build as a whole to make it possible. This is the same as ANY build - you balance the budget according to your needs. You watercool everything and keep the large fans to a minimum or use multiple radiators, or look for alternative aftermarket coolers if possible. Vadim used to cool highly overclocked cases with tons of radiators and very quiet fans in this way and it was hugely successful (albeit expensive).
:)
LOL. Personally, I ALWAYS change off the stock cooler on my GPU's, and it's usually a waterblock. So, to me your argument is a moot point. Bindi's points underline that fact.
I have nothing but confidence in Cooler Master's design team, especially when they slap the ATCS logo on it.
Personally, that doesn't matter one whit to me. What does matter is HDD mounting, since there's so little I can do to alter it. High-end GPU? It's in my loop, and 700 RPM Slipstreams are VERY quiet ;)
I'd also like some idea of how this case responds to system vibration, since aluminum has a tendency to "hum" and amplify vibration noise rather than damp it. It's why my last three cases have been steel.
I do appreciate your efforts to quantify heat dissipation efficiencies in your case comparisons, that is certainly a big step up from most case testing seen on the web.
The only time a watercooling kit I've used actually made noise that stood out above background noise was when I was using one of those pre-built 'watercooling in a box' kits. If you spend time investigating and planning a good watercooling loop, it will be silent if you want it to be.
I'll put it this way - we don't recommend something unless we genuinely want one, and we were fighting (drawing straws) about who was going to keep the 840 until Cooler Master decided it wanted it back :(
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