Originally Posted by Turbotab You didn't include a Blu Ray drive, as you said it was too expensive at £150, yet in the Hardware round-up guide yesterday, you included a LG Blu Ray at £66?
I assume that only laptop drives were being looked at in that group laptop blu-ray drives - to keep in line with the selection of compact components in that grouping...
Originally Posted by Turbotab You didn't include a Blu Ray drive, as you said it was too expensive at £150, yet in the Hardware round-up guide yesterday, you included a LG Blu Ray at £66? Plus no TV tuner, or even a basic graphics card, such as a 3450 to ease HD playback. Not up to the usual Bit Tech standards, I'm afraid.
1) A slimline drive is needed for both mini-ITX builds - Specifically a slot loading one in the alternative case.
2) No TV tuner cards because not everyone wants to record TV (Internet streaming via boxee for example), there are vast differences in worldwide standards - not to mention HD/SD/DVB-S/T/cable/sat/etcetc. Plus, we don't give advise on what we don't know - we never review TV cards so it would not be wise to recommend them without prior knowledge.
3) No graphics cards are needed - the 780G has the Radeon HD 3200 (790GX has 3300) which has the same UVD as the 3450. The latest G45 chipset also accelerates HD using Intel ClearVideo (the HQV/HD HQV quality is actually better) or even if we suggested the Nvidia Geforce 8200 - that also has a comparable PureVideo HD too.
There's space for a graphics upgrade in the affordable build if need be - the HD 4000 series has UVD2 which has some additional features for HD 7.1 channel audio, but that's about it.
The Tyr seems like a disaster of a choice in these listings. I mean, $731. For a case. High end be damned, that extra cost could bring it from a Gaming PC in fancy pants to a real HTPC.
You could have gone to an i7 build, along with a much stronger videocard, and a few tb of storage...
Originally Posted by Tulatin The Tyr seems like a disaster of a choice in these listings. I mean, $731. For a case. High end be damned, that extra cost could bring it from a Gaming PC in fancy pants to a real HTPC.
You could have gone to an i7 build, along with a much stronger videocard, and a few tb of storage...
and i7 build for a htpc, you dont gain anything from having an i7 build for a gaming rig, let alone a htpc! and if you want tb's of storage, plug some more hdd in.
i do agree on the price of that lian li case, its outrageous, but if i was loaded i'd have it as i think it looks great!
great guide rich, some nice work there and i didnt know about nvidia having that feature for slowing the fan speed even more when it detects blu ray playback, that is really very nice of them to include that!
You could save £100+ on the "Affordable MicroATX" system by replacing the case and PSU with one of these. Yes it's ugly, but it's low profile, and the one I bought has a pretty much silent PSU. You would have to use a low-profile CPU cooler instead of that Zalman one though. I don't see how you can call £110 for a computer case "reasonably cheap".
Please continue these types of guides they absolutely rock. However we dont want good old bit tech turning into tom's hardware and releasing guides yet changing nothing. So in my opinion keep the monthly cycle for gaming machines no matter what but for things like HTPC or mini gaming pc's etc... only do as much as necessary. You guys are perfect now just wanted to at least point out the importance could become diminished if over used. : D
Originally Posted by Tulatin The Tyr seems like a disaster of a choice in these listings. I mean, $731. For a case. High end be damned, that extra cost could bring it from a Gaming PC in fancy pants to a real HTPC.
You could have gone to an i7 build, along with a much stronger videocard, and a few tb of storage...
Yes the Lian IS completely outrageous in the States. For once, from a Brit - LOL!! See how you like it! :p
What absolutely pimp alternatives do you suggest? Im open to suggestions
HOWEVER, compared to what some people spend on A/V kit - it's a drop in the ocean.
1ad7 - It's every quarter for the HTPC one, perhaps every 6 months. We'll see ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ch424 Good guide, thank you! :)
You could save £100+ on the "Affordable MicroATX" system by replacing the case and PSU with one of these. Yes it's ugly, but it's low profile, and the one I bought has a pretty much silent PSU. You would have to use a low-profile CPU cooler instead of that Zalman one though. I don't see how you can call £110 for a computer case "reasonably cheap".
It's gotta be in your living room, on show - of anything in the build, the case is the absolute most important part. £110 is pretty cheap if it's an investment, when a lot of HTPC cases are 2-300 upwards
Originally Posted by 1ad7 Please continue these types of guides they absolutely rock. However we dont want good old bit tech turning into tom's hardware and releasing guides yet changing nothing. So in my opinion keep the monthly cycle for gaming machines no matter what but for things like HTPC or mini gaming pc's etc... only do as much as necessary. You guys are perfect now just wanted to at least point out the importance could become diminished if over used. : D
This sort of guide will be quarterly, while our monthly updated buyers guide will continue as it is.
Then could you use a splitter and get two DVI-I outputs? Up to 1920x1200 each right?
I cant find any info on this anywhere!
The problem is you can use either DVI or HDMI but not at the same time. The VGA works simultaneously but there's no way I can really use this the pic would be crap at that res using it all day.
Brilliant article. I hope you guys keep going with these (quarterly is fine) so that I can use them when I scrape the cash together to afford some more hardware.
Next request for a guide: A quiet, efficient storage beast to use as a dedicated server for those linux servers we're all using since Guilder's early linux guides.
Originally Posted by Tulatin The Tyr seems like a disaster of a choice in these listings. I mean, $731. For a case. High end be damned, that extra cost could bring it from a Gaming PC in fancy pants to a real HTPC.
You could have gone to an i7 build, along with a much stronger videocard, and a few tb of storage...
Yes the Lian IS completely outrageous in the States. For once, from a Brit - LOL!! See how you like it! :p
What absolutely pimp alternatives do you suggest? Im open to suggestions
HOWEVER, compared to what some people spend on A/V kit - it's a drop in the ocean.
1ad7 - It's every quarter for the HTPC one, perhaps every 6 months. We'll see ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ch424 Good guide, thank you! :)
You could save £100+ on the "Affordable MicroATX" system by replacing the case and PSU with one of these. Yes it's ugly, but it's low profile, and the one I bought has a pretty much silent PSU. You would have to use a low-profile CPU cooler instead of that Zalman one though. I don't see how you can call £110 for a computer case "reasonably cheap".
It's gotta be in your living room, on show - of anything in the build, the case is the absolute most important part. £110 is pretty cheap if it's an investment, when a lot of HTPC cases are 2-300 upwards
Honestly? Either a nice silverstone case, or an old beater, with her cables run back through the wall. A custom E-SATA enclosure could help out here. Still, it's a damn pricy case.
I do not really see the point in the GIGABYTE GA-EG45M-DS2H they said that there was no "alternative Asus product" with HDMI...
On newegg.com, the
GA-EG45M-DS2H = 126.99
P5N7A-VM =119.99
Oh the P5N7A-VM is Asus WITH HDMI and even 16x Pci Express in fact the P5N7A-VM appears to eat the Gigabyte board for lunch and even costs less money. I do not understand why you would not use this ASUS board.
I can't seem to understand something. Would the cheapest of these builds be able to run 1080p content? I'm talking, in the worst case, about mkv files with high bitrate and maybe not encoded in a way to take advantage os the GPU HD content hardware acceleration. There seems to be diferent opinions about this.
If that build is not able to run high bitrate HD content without the need of the GPU, which AMD would be the first (and the cheapest) to be up to the task?
Originally Posted by Ghast The Antec Fusion already comes with a 430W PSU, why would you need to buy the one that was listed?
Is that certain models? Because when I looked there was no mention of that. If it does come with one, then ignore the PSU choice :p
Quote:
I can't seem to understand something. Would the cheapest of these builds be able to run 1080p content? I'm talking, in the worst case, about mkv files with high bitrate and maybe not encoded in a way to take advantage os the GPU HD content hardware acceleration. There seems to be diferent opinions about this.
If that build is not able to run high bitrate HD content without the need of the GPU, which AMD would be the first (and the cheapest) to be up to the task?
No, the 4850e can't do 1080p high bitrate mkv. I've tried, it needs a bit of overclocking to get it smooth. My benchmark is my own Sunshine 1080p rip that makes 2.5GHz stutter in some scenes, but overclocked, it's fine. The advantage of that is that the Gigabyte mobo will store BIOS profiles so you can restart it and flick back and forth to only use it when you need it. It's not "on the fly" convenient, but it is an option rather than running a high power CPU all day everyday pissing away leccy.
Originally Posted by ZERO <ibis> I do not really see the point in the GIGABYTE GA-EG45M-DS2H they said that there was no "alternative Asus product" with HDMI...
On newegg.com, the
GA-EG45M-DS2H = 126.99
P5N7A-VM =119.99
Oh the P5N7A-VM is Asus WITH HDMI and even 16x Pci Express in fact the P5N7A-VM appears to eat the Gigabyte board for lunch and even costs less money. I do not understand why you would not use this ASUS board.
The other specs are the same except that the ASUS board has 3 more Onboard USB headers.
The GeForce 9300 is a piece of arse chipset on Intel CPUs - the DDR2 dividers dont work and the PCI prefetch is disabled killing performance. The only advantage it has is dual digital output support.
It's an option if you want it, but I'd opt for G45 and ClearVideo with it's excellent HQV performance anyday for a HTPC.
Originally Posted by aron311 Does the J&W Minix 780G do DVI-D or just DVI-I??
Then could you use a splitter and get two DVI-I outputs? Up to 1920x1200 each right?
I cant find any info on this anywhere!
The problem is you can use either DVI or HDMI but not at the same time. The VGA works simultaneously but there's no way I can really use this the pic would be crap at that res using it all day.
I *think* it's digital only and it's either DVI or HDMI - not both. That's a chipset limitation. I could be wrong though. Only the latest GeForce 9300 from Nvidia supports dual digital outputs, or the Intel G45 might with an extra TDMS..
Seems to me the guide is only for network/HD playback, not at all for tv recording and such, noting the missing tv card Floppy/DTV and other options.
Nowadays it is not a good idea to build a expensive PC based HTPC to play content from network to your livingroom pc. A way better and probably cheaper option is to get a NMT (Networked Media Tank) player. Smart little (15x15cm max) devices that can run almost anything (including HD) from the network. Take a look around the mediaplayer club website for some pretty nifty devices.
however, if you want to record tv input, browse te web, play some "mame" games, zap tv channels, then a HTPC seems to be a good idea until you walk to the 2 meters thick brick wall thats is your cable network provider. Most TV cable providers use the DVB-C standard (with a twist that is). You need some CI module (like the Floppy/DTV or other DBV-C card) then you need a the 'right' CAM and then pray the providers card will work in it. this part alone will cost you around 400 euro.
Then there is DVB-T, setting this up on a windows bases machine need some software hacking for MCE. Also because the 'free to air' channels can be counted one one hand so you need a card reader for the providers card also, another ci/cam setup is required and some hope.
I had a HTPC and it was a bitch to get it to work and to setup, way to expensive to connect to digital tv. Then last year i saw the light. Ditched the HTPC placed a a small and fast NMT, streamed all the movies/series from other pc, and watch normal tv through the settopbox from the Digital cable provider. Total cost 300 euro...
I have the HDX900, there is a newer version available here
I've been looking at building a HTPC/Entry level Gaming unit for a while, with most questions answered. my initial thoughts was almost identical to the MIniATX build, but with just the one question the Gigabyte GA-MA78GM-S2H.
Has anyone tried the Hybrid CrossFire option to a 3450 (or the likes, around £30 these days) on the any of the 780 Boards, and is there any real performance to this.
I think a this could be a possible review here, Hybrid SLI/CrossFire to single GPU cards.
Originally Posted by Bindibadgi Is that certain models? Because when I looked there was no mention of that. If it does come with one, then ignore the PSU choice :p
No, the 4850e can't do 1080p high bitrate mkv. I've tried, it needs a bit of overclocking to get it smooth. My benchmark is my own Sunshine 1080p rip that makes 2.5GHz stutter in some scenes, but overclocked, it's fine. The advantage of that is that the Gigabyte mobo will store BIOS profiles so you can restart it and flick back and forth to only use it when you need it. It's not "on the fly" convenient, but it is an option rather than running a high power CPU all day everyday pissing away leccy.
also bindi dont forget if you did not want to restart your computer you can run AMD Overdrive, create a profile and store it and just run it whenever you want to OC for games (or in your case videos) and its much quicker than going into the bios every time :)
i do it on a simmilar board as your htpc (GA ma78gpm-ds2h combined with a 5400+) whenever im gaming i have a profile saved on overdrive that i run which boosts me up to 3.1ghz and runs my memory at around DDR 900 speeds then when im done gaming i just turn it back to my defult profile
Originally Posted by Gremlin also bindi dont forget if you did not want to restart your computer you can run AMD Overdrive, create a profile and store it and just run it whenever you want to OC for games (or in your case videos) and its much quicker than going into the bios every time :)
Originally Posted by Bindibadgi No, the 4850e can't do 1080p high bitrate mkv. I've tried, it needs a bit of overclocking to get it smooth. My benchmark is my own Sunshine 1080p rip that makes 2.5GHz stutter in some scenes, but overclocked, it's fine. The advantage of that is that the Gigabyte mobo will store BIOS profiles so you can restart it and flick back and forth to only use it when you need it. It's not "on the fly" convenient, but it is an option rather than running a high power CPU all day everyday pissing away leccy.
Thanks, nice info. I'm not planing to OC so, which AMD would be up to the task of 1080p mkv files playback? Including those not being accelerated by the GPU...
Comments 26 to 50 of 76
Reply1) A slimline drive is needed for both mini-ITX builds - Specifically a slot loading one in the alternative case.
2) No TV tuner cards because not everyone wants to record TV (Internet streaming via boxee for example), there are vast differences in worldwide standards - not to mention HD/SD/DVB-S/T/cable/sat/etcetc. Plus, we don't give advise on what we don't know - we never review TV cards so it would not be wise to recommend them without prior knowledge.
3) No graphics cards are needed - the 780G has the Radeon HD 3200 (790GX has 3300) which has the same UVD as the 3450. The latest G45 chipset also accelerates HD using Intel ClearVideo (the HQV/HD HQV quality is actually better) or even if we suggested the Nvidia Geforce 8200 - that also has a comparable PureVideo HD too.
There's space for a graphics upgrade in the affordable build if need be - the HD 4000 series has UVD2 which has some additional features for HD 7.1 channel audio, but that's about it.
You could have gone to an i7 build, along with a much stronger videocard, and a few tb of storage...
and i7 build for a htpc, you dont gain anything from having an i7 build for a gaming rig, let alone a htpc! and if you want tb's of storage, plug some more hdd in.
i do agree on the price of that lian li case, its outrageous, but if i was loaded i'd have it as i think it looks great!
great guide rich, some nice work there and i didnt know about nvidia having that feature for slowing the fan speed even more when it detects blu ray playback, that is really very nice of them to include that!
peace
fatman
You could save £100+ on the "Affordable MicroATX" system by replacing the case and PSU with one of these. Yes it's ugly, but it's low profile, and the one I bought has a pretty much silent PSU. You would have to use a low-profile CPU cooler instead of that Zalman one though. I don't see how you can call £110 for a computer case "reasonably cheap".
Yes the Lian IS completely outrageous in the States. For once, from a Brit - LOL!! See how you like it! :p
What absolutely pimp alternatives do you suggest? Im open to suggestions
HOWEVER, compared to what some people spend on A/V kit - it's a drop in the ocean.
1ad7 - It's every quarter for the HTPC one, perhaps every 6 months. We'll see ;)
It's gotta be in your living room, on show - of anything in the build, the case is the absolute most important part. £110 is pretty cheap if it's an investment, when a lot of HTPC cases are 2-300 upwards
This sort of guide will be quarterly, while our monthly updated buyers guide will continue as it is.
Then could you use a splitter and get two DVI-I outputs? Up to 1920x1200 each right?
I cant find any info on this anywhere!
The problem is you can use either DVI or HDMI but not at the same time. The VGA works simultaneously but there's no way I can really use this the pic would be crap at that res using it all day.
Next request for a guide: A quiet, efficient storage beast to use as a dedicated server for those linux servers we're all using since Guilder's early linux guides.
Honestly? Either a nice silverstone case, or an old beater, with her cables run back through the wall. A custom E-SATA enclosure could help out here. Still, it's a damn pricy case.
On newegg.com, the
GA-EG45M-DS2H = 126.99
P5N7A-VM =119.99
Oh the P5N7A-VM is Asus WITH HDMI and even 16x Pci Express in fact the P5N7A-VM appears to eat the Gigabyte board for lunch and even costs less money. I do not understand why you would not use this ASUS board.
Specs side by side:
GIGABYTE| ASUS
FSB: 1600 (O.C)/1333MHz | 1333/1066MHz
N/B: Intel G45 | NVIDIA GeForce 9300/nForce 730i
RAM: DDR2 1066 (O.C)/800 | DDR2 800
PCI Express 16x: NONE | 1x
PCI Express 4x: 1x | NONE
PCI Express 1x: 1x | 1x
The other specs are the same except that the ASUS board has 3 more Onboard USB headers.
If that build is not able to run high bitrate HD content without the need of the GPU, which AMD would be the first (and the cheapest) to be up to the task?
Is that certain models? Because when I looked there was no mention of that. If it does come with one, then ignore the PSU choice :p
No, the 4850e can't do 1080p high bitrate mkv. I've tried, it needs a bit of overclocking to get it smooth. My benchmark is my own Sunshine 1080p rip that makes 2.5GHz stutter in some scenes, but overclocked, it's fine. The advantage of that is that the Gigabyte mobo will store BIOS profiles so you can restart it and flick back and forth to only use it when you need it. It's not "on the fly" convenient, but it is an option rather than running a high power CPU all day everyday pissing away leccy.
The GeForce 9300 is a piece of arse chipset on Intel CPUs - the DDR2 dividers dont work and the PCI prefetch is disabled killing performance. The only advantage it has is dual digital output support.
It's an option if you want it, but I'd opt for G45 and ClearVideo with it's excellent HQV performance anyday for a HTPC.
I *think* it's digital only and it's either DVI or HDMI - not both. That's a chipset limitation. I could be wrong though. Only the latest GeForce 9300 from Nvidia supports dual digital outputs, or the Intel G45 might with an extra TDMS..
Nowadays it is not a good idea to build a expensive PC based HTPC to play content from network to your livingroom pc. A way better and probably cheaper option is to get a NMT (Networked Media Tank) player. Smart little (15x15cm max) devices that can run almost anything (including HD) from the network. Take a look around the mediaplayer club website for some pretty nifty devices.
however, if you want to record tv input, browse te web, play some "mame" games, zap tv channels, then a HTPC seems to be a good idea until you walk to the 2 meters thick brick wall thats is your cable network provider. Most TV cable providers use the DVB-C standard (with a twist that is). You need some CI module (like the Floppy/DTV or other DBV-C card) then you need a the 'right' CAM and then pray the providers card will work in it. this part alone will cost you around 400 euro.
Then there is DVB-T, setting this up on a windows bases machine need some software hacking for MCE. Also because the 'free to air' channels can be counted one one hand so you need a card reader for the providers card also, another ci/cam setup is required and some hope.
I had a HTPC and it was a bitch to get it to work and to setup, way to expensive to connect to digital tv. Then last year i saw the light. Ditched the HTPC placed a a small and fast NMT, streamed all the movies/series from other pc, and watch normal tv through the settopbox from the Digital cable provider. Total cost 300 euro...
I have the HDX900, there is a newer version available here
Never looked back.
Has anyone tried the Hybrid CrossFire option to a 3450 (or the likes, around £30 these days) on the any of the 780 Boards, and is there any real performance to this.
I think a this could be a possible review here, Hybrid SLI/CrossFire to single GPU cards.
But great article.
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/motherboards/2008/08/15/asus-crosshair-ii-formula/11
You can get kind of an idea from that - the 780a has the same IGP as the GeForce 8200 and the Gigabyte board is a 780G one. :)
also bindi dont forget if you did not want to restart your computer you can run AMD Overdrive, create a profile and store it and just run it whenever you want to OC for games (or in your case videos) and its much quicker than going into the bios every time :)
i do it on a simmilar board as your htpc (GA ma78gpm-ds2h combined with a 5400+) whenever im gaming i have a profile saved on overdrive that i run which boosts me up to 3.1ghz and runs my memory at around DDR 900 speeds then when im done gaming i just turn it back to my defult profile
;) Nice idea!
Thanks, nice info. I'm not planing to OC so, which AMD would be up to the task of 1080p mkv files playback? Including those not being accelerated by the GPU...
I had to read through it twice to catch it
Unsure, but the price link (listed as the cheapest one too) included it.
http://www.nextwarehouse.com/item/?389461
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