Tim, as a frequent user and visitor i advise you to get some sleep. i know first hand that there is always the urge to finish everything up before going to bed, but sometimes it must delay for those 8 hours. :)
I built a system in one of these cases and honestly thought it wasn't a bad case for the price. Sadly M-ATX cases usually get the same treatment from manufacturers as M-ATX boards - they are seldom flagship products.
The V350 at least looks nice but, really, I'd just give someone a mid tower case and tell them to stop whining. I'm still impressed by the CM 690 and it's pretty cheap, so that would be my choice.
Originally Posted by Spaceraver Tim, as a frequent user and visitor i advise you to get some sleep. i know first hand that there is always the urge to finish everything up before going to bed, but sometimes it must delay for those 8 hours. :)
Heh, that's what happens when one can't sleep. I tried to get to sleep at about 10pm in order to wake up at 6am... that didn't happen last night. :(
I've built a Linux workstation out of one of these (I wanted something small to be easy to carry around, and I wanted something slightly showy), and I agree, the build quality of it is pretty rubbish, everything is fairly flimsy. However now that it's built I'm not going to change anything in it, and it works well for what I need. The handle does feel flimsy, but I haven't had it break on me. I also was lucky in that nothing really bent for me, so installation was fairly easy for me. A modular PSU would be useful for it though. Also, the windows are very easily scratched.
Originally Posted by yakyb looks like i made a good choice spending the extra on a silverstone sugo
Yeah. Honestly the Sugo series by Silverstone is about the only mATX line worth purchasing right now. Which is actually quite a shame, as they are expensive and I don't think they're that fabulous (at least by Silverstone standards). But, they are the best of the best in a niche market. My vote? Just buy a Shuttle, or build a case :)
I've used a number of SFF cases, including the Lian Li PC-V300, Aspire X-Qpack, Antec Aria, and Thermaltake Lanbox Lite, and quite honestly, none of them are any fun at all. But, the way I look at it, you only build them once. It's not like a goofy keyboard, monitor, or mouse that you're constantly interacting with and suffering any inadequacies they may have.
The worst part of any of them is if you have to work on them once they're assembled, to either repair or upgrade a part. In all cases, there's an order to assembly that really has to be followed because often one thing makes another inaccessible. That means you may have to disassemble half or more of the case to get at some buried part. It can be a real pain in the shorts.
I built my g/f's comp using the X-Qpack (first version) and yes, it was somewhat flimsy. but nothing 'rattles', nothing bent, nothing was razor sharp.
I just built my friend a comp using the X-Qpack 2. same thing as the 1st version, just with an added 80mm fan and new front face. nothing rattles, nothings bent. maybe you just got a case that barely made it through quality control? i dunno.
Originally Posted by kgwagner I've used a number of SFF cases, including the Lian Li PC-V300, Aspire X-Qpack, Antec Aria, and Thermaltake Lanbox Lite, and quite honestly, none of them are any fun at all. But, the way I look at it, you only build them once. It's not like a goofy keyboard, monitor, or mouse that you're constantly interacting with and suffering any inadequacies they may have.
The worst part of any of them is if you have to work on them once they're assembled, to either repair or upgrade a part. In all cases, there's an order to assembly that really has to be followed because often one thing makes another inaccessible. That means you may have to disassemble half or more of the case to get at some buried part. It can be a real pain in the shorts.
Hit the nail on the head. ;) Welcome to the forums.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jodah175 I built my g/f's comp using the X-Qpack (first version) and yes, it was somewhat flimsy. but nothing 'rattles', nothing bent, nothing was razor sharp.
I just built my friend a comp using the X-Qpack 2. same thing as the 1st version, just with an added 80mm fan and new front face. nothing rattles, nothings bent. maybe you just got a case that barely made it through quality control? i dunno.
perhaps you (Mr. Martin) were in a bad mood?
:) No offence intended to the review staff but I think they get a little used to the high end parts that most of us can't justify buying. Sometimes it comes across like a car reviewer who's used to testing high-end cars who's suddenly asked to review a more common mid-range car - they usually hate it.
Originally Posted by Woodstock i wouldn't say no to hourbeforedawn's project F.E.A.R
Well thank you for your kind words, ya it was tough fitting all that into that case but I must admit, although I agree with the comments that updating a SFF case, especially in my situation would be a royal pain in the ass, I wont see myself needing to upgrade for a while ^_^ but ya after building that SFF, I am in love with them, I think my HourBeforeDawn MM Cube case once done will be my last large case and that Im going to stick with Mid-Tower or Smaller cases. ^_^
Now back to this case, I would have to agree that this case has a horrid design to it, lol I wonder if they will attempt to make a water cooled version like they did with the last model, I would say look at TT or Silverstone if you want a SFF case, but I really wish Motherboard manufactures would pay more attention to the SFF market, I want some better boards, boards with Quad support and at least dual x16 support >_<
Originally Posted by jodah175 I built my g/f's comp using the X-Qpack (first version) and yes, it was somewhat flimsy. but nothing 'rattles', nothing bent, nothing was razor sharp.
I just built my friend a comp using the X-Qpack 2. same thing as the 1st version, just with an added 80mm fan and new front face. nothing rattles, nothings bent. maybe you just got a case that barely made it through quality control? i dunno.
perhaps you (Mr. Martin) were in a bad mood?
:) No offence intended to the review staff but I think they get a little used to the high end parts that most of us can't justify buying. Sometimes it comes across like a car reviewer who's used to testing high-end cars who's suddenly asked to review a more common mid-range car - they usually hate it.
I don't think that is the case at all... look at the CM 690 we reviewed the other day - it's 2/3 the price of this and we loved it! If anything, this case just makes the CM 690 look about 10 times better. We loved Enermax's budget case as well, because it had solid build quality and a reasonable set of features at a good price. We had a lukewarm response to the 8600/2600 cards and told everyone that the best buy was the X1950 Pro because the DX10-ness was just a checkbox that you'd never be able to use and performance was sub-par on the new cards.
We've told you to buy P35 boards unless you need dual graphics support, because the performance difference between X38 and P35 is nothing in single card mode and DDR2 performance is slightly below par across the board. Additionally, with P35 you'll get roughly the same overclocking capabilities as you will with X38 and you'll be saving yourself a decent chunk of money. The IP35 Pro is one of the best P35 boards out there and it's well under £100 - we continue to recommend it, even despite it being a budget board in relation to some of the X38 boards coming out at the moment.
We have always called it as we see it, regardless of how much it costs. The build quality on the case we were sent was at least as poor as the original QPack, which we still have in the office. The problem is when we reviewed the original, we said that the build quality was its major downfall and that hasn't been improved upon with the newer version.
It's very easy to get jaded by the slew of high-end products we get to see, but one thing that I constantly ram home is the question of value - is there value in spending £X on something when a different product that's much cheaper does almost the same. It's the key thing I ask anyone writing for me to consider: what are you getting for your money?
Originally Posted by jodah175 I
perhaps you (Mr. Martin) were in a bad mood?
Actually, I was really happy to take a break from reviewing games for a few days. Crysis et al are great, but occasionally I need a break. I also got the sequence of pieces to be installed down on the first try so, although it was a hassle to repair etc, I at least didn't get all the way through and have to start over.
I tend not to get used to high end stuff as, for every good case/game/peripheral that comes in, I get a crap one which I try but don't review (seems odd to some of you, but question if you'd really want a review of Pro Cycling Manager or Happy's Falling Star when you could read about Bioshock or UT3) or which I give a bad review to. I try to stay as balanced as possible without turning Zen.
Ultimately, we have to judge the case against all the other cases in that form factor and price range - there are better cases for the price.
Originally Posted by CardJoe Actually, I was really happy to take a break from reviewing games for a few days. Crysis et al are great, but occasionally I need a break. I also got the sequence of pieces to be installed down on the first try so, although it was a hassle to repair etc, I at least didn't get all the way through and have to start over.
I tend not to get used to high end stuff as, for every good case/game/peripheral that comes in, I get a crap one which I try but don't review (seems odd to some of you, but question if you'd really want a review of Pro Cycling Manager or Happy's Falling Star when you could read about Bioshock or UT3) or which I give a bad review to. I try to stay as balanced as possible without turning Zen.
Ultimately, we have to judge the case against all the other cases in that form factor and price range - there are better cases for the price.
If thats so why did you mention or compare the CM 690 as thats a Mid Tower case not a Small Form Factor Case???
Im not disagreeing with your review, I do agree with what you said but am curious as to why you picked that case to mention in the review instead of another SFF as a recommendation???
Originally Posted by Tim S I don't think that is the case at all... look at the CM 690 we reviewed the other day - it's 2/3 the price of this and we loved it!...
It's very easy to get jaded by the slew of high-end products we get to see, but one thing that I constantly ram home is the question of value - is there value in spending £X on something when a different product that's much cheaper does almost the same. It's the key thing I ask anyone writing for me to consider: what are you getting for your money?
I am glad that you have that stance and I have noticed that generally you all do quite well in sticking to that. I'm not trying to be argumentative or disrespectful of any any of the staff - It's just that in this case I didn't have any of the problems mentioned in the review.
Does the 690 (which is an unfair comparison since it's not a SFF case) also come with a power supply? (I didn't see specs for it in the review)
Quote:
Originally Posted by CardJoe ...
Ultimately, we have to judge the case against all the other cases in that form factor and price range - there are better cases for the price.
I honestly would be greatly pleased if you would tell me what those other options are (while sticking to the form factor and accounting for the value of the included PSU).
Quote:
Originally Posted by HourBeforeDawn If thats so why did you mention or compare the CM 690 as thats a Mid Tower case not a Small Form Factor Case???
Im not disagreeing with your review, I do agree with what you said but am curious as to why you picked that case to mention in the review instead of another SFF as a recommendation???
Originally Posted by HourBeforeDawn If thats so why did you mention or compare the CM 690 as thats a Mid Tower case not a Small Form Factor Case???
Im not disagreeing with your review, I do agree with what you said but am curious as to why you picked that case to mention in the review instead of another SFF as a recommendation???
Purely because that is another case which is cheap (cheaper in fact), which I had reviewed recently and which I could link to. I could have linked to the Lian-Li V350, which is the only other mATX case I've reviewed with this hardware setup, but it isn't a case I'd recommend either.
Well I suppose thats understandable but it still would have been nice to see something compared to its same class of case, but obviously if you have no other case that you can compare to then I guess you would go with what you had on hand.
Originally Posted by Tyinsar I am glad that you have that stance and I have noticed that generally you all do quite well in sticking to that. I'm not trying to be argumentative or disrespectful of any any of the staff - It's just that in this case I didn't have any of the problems mentioned in the review.
Does the 690 (which is an unfair comparison since it's not a SFF case) also come with a power supply? (I didn't see specs for it in the review)
I don't think you are being disrespectful, I was just letting you know that I try not to let the guys get jaded by high-end kit, as that's no use to anyone.
You're right that the 690 doesn't come with a PSU, but then I honestly wouldn't want to use any pre-supplied power supply since my experience in the past has been that they're useless 99 times out of 100. The only case I seem to remember in recent times that came with a decent PSU that you'd likely want to use was the P190.
I don't hold much hope for the unit in this case - it's 'rated' at 500W and if you look at Scan, the cheapest 'good quality' power supply rated at around 500W is £45, with most of the well-respected units costing above £50. If the unit in this case was anywhere near as good as the lowest-priced 'good quality' 500W unit, the case itself would be worth around £30. If you look at the price of specific mATX PSUs, you're looking at more like £30 for a 300W unit, and £70+ for anything above 400W (although the only ones listed are fanless, which obviously increases the price).
As for other mATX cases I'd look at, most have said the Silverstone cases are the way to go and I have to say I agree from my experiences with some of the company's other chassis. Having just seen the SG02W on Scan for under £60, admittedly without a PSU, it seems like much better value to me - I can't speak for you though. :)
yeah, im in no way trying to be disrespectful, Bit-tech is my number one site that i refer to for hardware reviews, and game reviews (just finished my new rig so i can play crysis, w00t!) and i love seeing all the mods that are posted here. i just never had any of the problems you seemed to have had. also, the psu in the g/fs Qpack has been going strong for close to a full year. im still leery of it, but it works and continues to work. i dunno, im just surprised that most of the stuff i buy, i don't have nearly (if any) as many problems as others seem to have. perhaps im just lucky? hehe.
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Heh, that's what happens when one can't sleep. I tried to get to sleep at about 10pm in order to wake up at 6am... that didn't happen last night. :(
Yeah. Honestly the Sugo series by Silverstone is about the only mATX line worth purchasing right now. Which is actually quite a shame, as they are expensive and I don't think they're that fabulous (at least by Silverstone standards). But, they are the best of the best in a niche market. My vote? Just buy a Shuttle, or build a case :)
The worst part of any of them is if you have to work on them once they're assembled, to either repair or upgrade a part. In all cases, there's an order to assembly that really has to be followed because often one thing makes another inaccessible. That means you may have to disassemble half or more of the case to get at some buried part. It can be a real pain in the shorts.
I just built my friend a comp using the X-Qpack 2. same thing as the 1st version, just with an added 80mm fan and new front face. nothing rattles, nothings bent. maybe you just got a case that barely made it through quality control? i dunno.
perhaps you (Mr. Martin) were in a bad mood?
Well thank you for your kind words, ya it was tough fitting all that into that case but I must admit, although I agree with the comments that updating a SFF case, especially in my situation would be a royal pain in the ass, I wont see myself needing to upgrade for a while ^_^ but ya after building that SFF, I am in love with them, I think my HourBeforeDawn MM Cube case once done will be my last large case and that Im going to stick with Mid-Tower or Smaller cases. ^_^
For those who are curious about my project, heres the link
http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=133154
Now back to this case, I would have to agree that this case has a horrid design to it, lol I wonder if they will attempt to make a water cooled version like they did with the last model, I would say look at TT or Silverstone if you want a SFF case, but I really wish Motherboard manufactures would pay more attention to the SFF market, I want some better boards, boards with Quad support and at least dual x16 support >_<
I don't think that is the case at all... look at the CM 690 we reviewed the other day - it's 2/3 the price of this and we loved it! If anything, this case just makes the CM 690 look about 10 times better. We loved Enermax's budget case as well, because it had solid build quality and a reasonable set of features at a good price. We had a lukewarm response to the 8600/2600 cards and told everyone that the best buy was the X1950 Pro because the DX10-ness was just a checkbox that you'd never be able to use and performance was sub-par on the new cards.
We've told you to buy P35 boards unless you need dual graphics support, because the performance difference between X38 and P35 is nothing in single card mode and DDR2 performance is slightly below par across the board. Additionally, with P35 you'll get roughly the same overclocking capabilities as you will with X38 and you'll be saving yourself a decent chunk of money. The IP35 Pro is one of the best P35 boards out there and it's well under £100 - we continue to recommend it, even despite it being a budget board in relation to some of the X38 boards coming out at the moment.
We have always called it as we see it, regardless of how much it costs. The build quality on the case we were sent was at least as poor as the original QPack, which we still have in the office. The problem is when we reviewed the original, we said that the build quality was its major downfall and that hasn't been improved upon with the newer version.
It's very easy to get jaded by the slew of high-end products we get to see, but one thing that I constantly ram home is the question of value - is there value in spending £X on something when a different product that's much cheaper does almost the same. It's the key thing I ask anyone writing for me to consider: what are you getting for your money?
Actually, I was really happy to take a break from reviewing games for a few days. Crysis et al are great, but occasionally I need a break. I also got the sequence of pieces to be installed down on the first try so, although it was a hassle to repair etc, I at least didn't get all the way through and have to start over.
I tend not to get used to high end stuff as, for every good case/game/peripheral that comes in, I get a crap one which I try but don't review (seems odd to some of you, but question if you'd really want a review of Pro Cycling Manager or Happy's Falling Star when you could read about Bioshock or UT3) or which I give a bad review to. I try to stay as balanced as possible without turning Zen.
Ultimately, we have to judge the case against all the other cases in that form factor and price range - there are better cases for the price.
If thats so why did you mention or compare the CM 690 as thats a Mid Tower case not a Small Form Factor Case???
Im not disagreeing with your review, I do agree with what you said but am curious as to why you picked that case to mention in the review instead of another SFF as a recommendation???
Does the 690 (which is an unfair comparison since it's not a SFF case) also come with a power supply? (I didn't see specs for it in the review)
Purely because that is another case which is cheap (cheaper in fact), which I had reviewed recently and which I could link to. I could have linked to the Lian-Li V350, which is the only other mATX case I've reviewed with this hardware setup, but it isn't a case I'd recommend either.
You're right that the 690 doesn't come with a PSU, but then I honestly wouldn't want to use any pre-supplied power supply since my experience in the past has been that they're useless 99 times out of 100. The only case I seem to remember in recent times that came with a decent PSU that you'd likely want to use was the P190.
I don't hold much hope for the unit in this case - it's 'rated' at 500W and if you look at Scan, the cheapest 'good quality' power supply rated at around 500W is £45, with most of the well-respected units costing above £50. If the unit in this case was anywhere near as good as the lowest-priced 'good quality' 500W unit, the case itself would be worth around £30. If you look at the price of specific mATX PSUs, you're looking at more like £30 for a 300W unit, and £70+ for anything above 400W (although the only ones listed are fanless, which obviously increases the price).
As for other mATX cases I'd look at, most have said the Silverstone cases are the way to go and I have to say I agree from my experiences with some of the company's other chassis. Having just seen the SG02W on Scan for under £60, admittedly without a PSU, it seems like much better value to me - I can't speak for you though. :)