Originally Posted by legoman666 a) it looks stupid
b) all of the features sound retarded
c) removable weights are quite possibly the most stupid gimmick idea i've heard of
d) it looks stupid
I'll stick with my mx1000.
Dpi adjustment is actually pretty useful. I like sniping in DoD and now, TF2. While running to my location I make the mouse super twitchy, how I like it. When I'm sniping though, I tone it down a bit so that I can be more precise and smooth while still have enough twitch to catch those annoying scouts.
Also, even though I don't have a mouse with weights, I would quite like my Razer Copperhead to be a tad heavier, but I'm too vein to go sticking blu tack to it :p
I have to agree, the adjustment is very useful when using weapons such as a long range rifle, allows far more precise movements, but it also means i can swap to a more useful sensitivity when i'm working close range without adjusting game settings.
As a huge fan of the old MS Sidewinder range (got a gamepad + joystick still in use here) i must come out to say this is the single most ugliest mouse i've seen in years
And it really hurts me to say that too, as while MS software can be iffy, their hardware add-ons up untill now have allways been faultless, i'm a big fan...
but this mouse? just yuck...
I just can't see why they've released this... it seems the complete antithesis to everything they've done in the past, ergonomics and usability gone out of the window in favour of 'perceived' retro design...
MS, if you're reading this, please FIRE anyone involved and go back to what the old sidewinder range was please.
I personally agree with the assessment of the fact that wireless lag is a load of crap. I've been using a wireless mouse since the first days of the MX700 and I've never noticed ANY lag in ANY game or other application, and before anyone says that I must not be the type of user or gamer that would notice lag, let me just say that I've been playing first person shooters competitively since the later days of Tribes (even to the point of being ranked 8th in the world in the Ultra Renegades mod according to the CLQ).
I'd say another very good reason for having a cabled mouse is that the wireless ones generally only have a choice of 2 or 3 channels.
What if you went to a LAN party and the guys either side had the same wireless mouse as you did? No free channel for you!
Originally Posted by IanW I'd say another very good reason for having a cabled mouse is that the wireless ones generally only have a choice of 2 or 3 channels.
What if you went to a LAN party and the guys either side had the same wireless mouse as you did? No free channel for you!
Now thats a good point. I'm very much enjoying the feedback ont he whole wired/wireless issue as well, it's very interesting.
As for the idea that all hardcore gamers would choose a wired mouse, that's certainly likely but its my opinion that most gamers wouldn't actually be able to notice the differend. I know there are people who can and there are those who prefer the feel (there are other complaints too about the battery and the channels, which I do agree with), but generally I think it is more of a style thing and wanting to look like a pro gamer or be able to willy-wave on that issue. It's similar to football boots - the new nike ones with improved designs etc are great, sure, but it doesn't make the older designs bad, just as with wired/wireless mice. Just because wired guarentees no lag and is used by all the the prominent gamers, doesn't mean that wireless is laggy - I've never noticed anything in the lag area.
As for the laser always on setting, that's something I'd always suggest in a good wireless mouse because with the laser powering down there's going to be obvious lag. I use a G7 and it's set to have the laser power-down after a minute, which is a fine balance for me because never when I'm gaming is my hand still for that long, especially in the eyes of a sensitvie laser like that. I get about a day or twos of gaming out of a single LI-Ion battery and the mouse comes with two rechargeable ones.
afaic weights are very useful in mice
Dpi adjustment is almost essential now with games containing multiple control methods (throw it down for sniping up for tank control etc etc)
I actually like this mouse, got to have a go with it at a Microsoft seminar i was at the other week. Solid feel , side buttons are good, much better to use than Razer's IMO. At first glance i thought it was ugly ( and to a degree i still do) but the feel and use of it are fine. I personally think Microsoft's hardware has always been top notch, I still use a sidewinder joystick.
I'm getting one. Fed up with the rubberised coating wearing off my Razer plasma.
Oh and to throw my 2p worth into the mix, I'd never use a wireless mouse on my gaming PC, not for any lag issues, only for the never having to worry about battery life.
Originally Posted by plagio gaming mice are wired, period.
If you don't agree with the lag issue you will agree that you can't risk to have your wireless mouse batteries uncharged before a clan war.
Yeah, I'll keep my copperhead thanks.
You have no idea what you are on about.
I have owned the G7 for nearly a year, and there is 0% lag on that mouse what so ever, and I am a gamer, so I know what lag is.
If you don't beleive me, buy one, and about battery life, you get 2 batteries, so you will never run out of charge, ever.
Moreover, unless you're playing SupCom LANs with a 2 hour turtle-up time (which then leads to a several week match) you are never going to run out of batteries within a normal match.
Originally Posted by MajorGN You have no idea what you are on about.
I have owned the G7 for nearly a year, and there is 0% lag on that mouse what so ever, and I am a gamer, so I know what lag is.
If you don't beleive me, buy one, and about battery life, you get 2 batteries, so you will never run out of charge, ever.
Well... we might have a problem here.
Both sides think they are right when they aren't. They are not because they don't know how the other person use their mouse. Some people play with a lot of acceleration, others have the 'enhance pointer precision' box checked and some have smoothing options enabled in games. With all those variables, a player using a wired mouse CAN have huge mouse lag while another person without these options enabled could have a more responsive wireless mouse.
I personnally play without smoothing, no windows precision enhancing crap and no acceleration and if you plug a wireless mouse and ask me to play , i WILL feel the lag. I don't care how uber-pro anyone think they are, nobody here has a universal answer good for everyone. It's all a matter of settings and personnal preferences
How much of that is psychological though? If someone made a wired and wireless version of the same mouse, but attached to a PC with a wire so you had no way of knowing which was wireless (any variable other than 'feel' is removed for the purposes of the experiment) can you be 100% sure you'll feel the difference? It's something we shoudl probably consider testing in the offices somehow.
Originally Posted by CardJoe Looking to get a bunch of stuff in over the next few months, so i'll try and add those to the list :D
thanks, I've been looking or a second gaming mouse, and these are my top competitors (I dislike the profile of razer mice, they just don't fit my holding style)
Originally Posted by capnPedro It looks like something from the future, from the 80s. If you get what I mean...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kipman725 I am by no means pro but even I notice input lag on most wireless mice, I also notice the differance between mouse acceleration off in windows and mouse acceleration rearly off (via registry hack). So far the best mouse I have used for twitch gaming is the razer diamondback but it's not the most comfortable beast.
Heh, and I prefer the feel of the Diamondback over the Copperhead because the curve at the back is more gradual - a difference so tiny it's hard to see but I sure can feel it. It just goes to show how personal taste in mice can be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eternum ...
Did someone else say welcome to the forums yet?
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman666 a) it looks stupid
b) all of the features sound retarded
c) removable weights are quite possibly the most stupid gimmick idea i've heard of
d) it looks stupid
I'll stick with my mx1000.
I agree with you on the weights thing but some people want it and to them it matters. -shrug-
dpi switching ftw... its something really nice, especially when switching between gaming and windows...
as for the weights.. make the mouse heavy enough to start with:D
cabel or wireless? well, i do prefer wireless, and i cant feel or see or whatever a difference between cabled and wireless... except when the batteries are near empty... but, thats why one leaves his mouse in the charger while at work...
Originally Posted by Archangel How much of that is psychological though? If someone made a wired and wireless version of the same mouse, but attached to a PC with a wire so you had no way of knowing which was wireless (any variable other than 'feel' is removed for the purposes of the experiment) can you be 100% sure you'll feel the difference? It's something we shoudl probably consider testing in the offices somehow.
I am 90% sure I would. I'll leave 10% for a possible surprise
It if comes across that way then its only because I used it before I wrote that I had used it, if you follow me. I've no reason to love or hate the mouse, I just ended up hating it.
Moreover, Joe has several objective reasons to hate it, while I like it without knowing why. After a two hour stint on TF2, however, my hand hurts... a change back may be in order...
Originally Posted by MajorGN ...G7...If you don't beleive me, buy one...
I have. It lagged.
Those of you that don't notice wireless lag, can't tell the difference between a laser or led mouse, don't mind a crt @ 75hz, enjoy gaming @ 30-45fps, and have no problem w/ loud fans or hdd's should be grateful. But for some of us, this stuff's noticeable...and unacceptable. Just keep an open mind and realize that we're not all alike.
FWIW, here's my current ranking/thoughts on some mice:
1. MX518
Pros - very comfortable, surface keeps palm/thumb/pinky cool, lots of buttons and even more functionality w/ uberoptions, very precise tracking, on-the-fly switching, low liftoff, lightweight
Cons - silly color, wheel doesn't side to side, annoyingly fat cord needs assistance (mouse bungie, twisty tie a foot up)
2. MX510
Pros - see above, blue color looks great
Cons - slightly less precision and buttons
3. DeathAdder
Pros - extremely precise tracking, very tactile feeling primary buttons, long thin cord that doesn't get in the way, very low liftoff
Cons - top gets warm and sides combine to make this uncomfy for prolonged gaming sessions, lack of buttons, great feet
4. IE3
Pros - kept me happy for a long time
Cons - it's no 518 (honestly, it's been awhile since I've used it) :D
5. Habu
Pros - great feet, it lights up blue?
Cons - laser engine just does not feel precise enough for me, fit 'n' finish (specifically the side buttons), bsoded my computer more than once
6. G7
Pros - it's almost comfy
Cons - it weighs a bit too much, it's missing a button, it lags, the batteries need to be changed to often, laser engine
7. MX1000
Pros - lots of buttons
Cons - it lags...a lot, laser engine
8. G5 V2
Pros - it got back it's button
Cons - it looks like spidey had his way w/ it, it feels like spidey had his way w/ it, laser engine
9. Copperhead
10. Diamondback
Both of these mice screwed up the side buttons completely and neither are anywhere near as comfy as the logi or some of razer's newest
I used the G9 briefly for a day and didn't care for the way my palm felt like it was dragging all over the mouse pad. The laser engine did seem quite nicer than previous G5 tho.
Comments 26 to 50 of 64
I have to agree, the adjustment is very useful when using weapons such as a long range rifle, allows far more precise movements, but it also means i can swap to a more useful sensitivity when i'm working close range without adjusting game settings.
And it really hurts me to say that too, as while MS software can be iffy, their hardware add-ons up untill now have allways been faultless, i'm a big fan...
but this mouse? just yuck...
I just can't see why they've released this... it seems the complete antithesis to everything they've done in the past, ergonomics and usability gone out of the window in favour of 'perceived' retro design...
MS, if you're reading this, please FIRE anyone involved and go back to what the old sidewinder range was please.
+1
:):):)
What if you went to a LAN party and the guys either side had the same wireless mouse as you did? No free channel for you!
Now thats a good point. I'm very much enjoying the feedback ont he whole wired/wireless issue as well, it's very interesting.
As for the idea that all hardcore gamers would choose a wired mouse, that's certainly likely but its my opinion that most gamers wouldn't actually be able to notice the differend. I know there are people who can and there are those who prefer the feel (there are other complaints too about the battery and the channels, which I do agree with), but generally I think it is more of a style thing and wanting to look like a pro gamer or be able to willy-wave on that issue. It's similar to football boots - the new nike ones with improved designs etc are great, sure, but it doesn't make the older designs bad, just as with wired/wireless mice. Just because wired guarentees no lag and is used by all the the prominent gamers, doesn't mean that wireless is laggy - I've never noticed anything in the lag area.
As for the laser always on setting, that's something I'd always suggest in a good wireless mouse because with the laser powering down there's going to be obvious lag. I use a G7 and it's set to have the laser power-down after a minute, which is a fine balance for me because never when I'm gaming is my hand still for that long, especially in the eyes of a sensitvie laser like that. I get about a day or twos of gaming out of a single LI-Ion battery and the mouse comes with two rechargeable ones.
I also have had a PS3 since March, enough said...
Dpi adjustment is almost essential now with games containing multiple control methods (throw it down for sniping up for tank control etc etc)
I'm getting one. Fed up with the rubberised coating wearing off my Razer plasma.
You have no idea what you are on about.
I have owned the G7 for nearly a year, and there is 0% lag on that mouse what so ever, and I am a gamer, so I know what lag is.
If you don't beleive me, buy one, and about battery life, you get 2 batteries, so you will never run out of charge, ever.
Yeah, I used to have the same "OMG LAG!" thought about wireless mice, but the G7 won me over. It's an awesome mouse.
Well... we might have a problem here.
Both sides think they are right when they aren't. They are not because they don't know how the other person use their mouse. Some people play with a lot of acceleration, others have the 'enhance pointer precision' box checked and some have smoothing options enabled in games. With all those variables, a player using a wired mouse CAN have huge mouse lag while another person without these options enabled could have a more responsive wireless mouse.
I personnally play without smoothing, no windows precision enhancing crap and no acceleration and if you plug a wireless mouse and ask me to play , i WILL feel the lag. I don't care how uber-pro anyone think they are, nobody here has a universal answer good for everyone. It's all a matter of settings and personnal preferences
EDIT: Add the vsync as a possible variable ;)
How much of that is psychological though? If someone made a wired and wireless version of the same mouse, but attached to a PC with a wire so you had no way of knowing which was wireless (any variable other than 'feel' is removed for the purposes of the experiment) can you be 100% sure you'll feel the difference? It's something we shoudl probably consider testing in the offices somehow.
Looking to get a bunch of stuff in over the next few months, so i'll try and add those to the list :D
thanks, I've been looking or a second gaming mouse, and these are my top competitors (I dislike the profile of razer mice, they just don't fit my holding style)
as for the weights.. make the mouse heavy enough to start with:D
cabel or wireless? well, i do prefer wireless, and i cant feel or see or whatever a difference between cabled and wireless... except when the batteries are near empty... but, thats why one leaves his mouse in the charger while at work...
I am 90% sure I would. I'll leave 10% for a possible surprise
Double blind test with the two identical mice.
Easy.
Timmeh, it looks poo, get a proper mouse :p
Those of you that don't notice wireless lag, can't tell the difference between a laser or led mouse, don't mind a crt @ 75hz, enjoy gaming @ 30-45fps, and have no problem w/ loud fans or hdd's should be grateful. But for some of us, this stuff's noticeable...and unacceptable. Just keep an open mind and realize that we're not all alike.
FWIW, here's my current ranking/thoughts on some mice:
1. MX518
Pros - very comfortable, surface keeps palm/thumb/pinky cool, lots of buttons and even more functionality w/ uberoptions, very precise tracking, on-the-fly switching, low liftoff, lightweight
Cons - silly color, wheel doesn't side to side, annoyingly fat cord needs assistance (mouse bungie, twisty tie a foot up)
2. MX510
Pros - see above, blue color looks great
Cons - slightly less precision and buttons
3. DeathAdder
Pros - extremely precise tracking, very tactile feeling primary buttons, long thin cord that doesn't get in the way, very low liftoff
Cons - top gets warm and sides combine to make this uncomfy for prolonged gaming sessions, lack of buttons, great feet
4. IE3
Pros - kept me happy for a long time
Cons - it's no 518 (honestly, it's been awhile since I've used it) :D
5. Habu
Pros - great feet, it lights up blue?
Cons - laser engine just does not feel precise enough for me, fit 'n' finish (specifically the side buttons), bsoded my computer more than once
6. G7
Pros - it's almost comfy
Cons - it weighs a bit too much, it's missing a button, it lags, the batteries need to be changed to often, laser engine
7. MX1000
Pros - lots of buttons
Cons - it lags...a lot, laser engine
8. G5 V2
Pros - it got back it's button
Cons - it looks like spidey had his way w/ it, it feels like spidey had his way w/ it, laser engine
9. Copperhead
10. Diamondback
Both of these mice screwed up the side buttons completely and neither are anywhere near as comfy as the logi or some of razer's newest
I used the G9 briefly for a day and didn't care for the way my palm felt like it was dragging all over the mouse pad. The laser engine did seem quite nicer than previous G5 tho.