Don't worry, I'm not going to flame you - that's not the way we do things here and we're always open to critiscism, especially when they are constructive like yours.
To address some of the issues you raised, as I said at the start of the review, this is my first Lian-Li case and I'm not only learning with this specific product line, but obviously still learning with cases as a whole. There are a few things which we missed and have since amended in the review, such as the PSU cover which nobody in the office knew about at the time time.
There are a number of minor issues you raise, such as vented PCI slots which I was both aware about and took pictures of. However there is a cost/benefit element to consider when writing reviews and to comment on every single feature is something which is slightly impractical. Photography, testing, sourcing, writing and editing can take up enough time as it is and doubling the length of the review by discussing minor features like these would mean that the review was even further delayed.
In the past, before I joined BT, I understand that Bit-tech worked at this level of detail, however it does mean fewer reviews on the site - which can only be combatted by taking on more staff, which is problematic for a company of our size. Instead, we try to walk the middle line between quality and quantity.
I fully acknowledge that there elements of this case which I missed or didn't mention - I knew the sides were noise insulated, but given that the material did not fill the entire panel and the case was still audible, it did not seem correct to heap praise on this feature.
As for the PSU cover being on like that - that's how it was when we opened the box, which is the point of the pre-testing photos.
I admit I forgot to take the pictures of the installed system - but to say that I was on my way out of the door at the time gives the wrong impression and makes me appear unprofessional, an implication I resent. If I wasn't bothered with these picture then I wouldn't have taken them at all - instead I worked to correct my mistake and ended up overlooking the cable management.
The graphics card and hardware used in the testing is deliberately intended to be warm - hence the slow fan. We want to give the case some real heat to try and deal with, which is why we always use the same setup.
As for photos, I fully admit that I'm not a professional photographer and that my background is in writing. In the picture you link to I can't actually see a massive handprint, but I realise that there are fingermarks in places. Unfortunately, it's very hard to turn a case around and get the required photos without leaving handprints, especially on a easily marked case like this.
I do agree with you though - the case is gorgeous to look at and could be even better with a few LEDs.
Given the response to this review, you can all rest assured that the next bit-tech case review will take your advice and views into account. We make sure we always listen to the community here and always do our best to keep you all as informed and happy as possible. Each and every forum member we try to treat as a member of staff (in a way) with a say in the direction of the site and the content.
If anybody has anymore feedback regarding the review itself, the please feel free to contact me directly to further discuss the issue. You can PM me through the forums. :)
Thanks for the response CardJoe, to hear you are new makes me feel bad for my comments! (I don't want you to be getting any digs in the office!) And it's all part of the learning process, It's just a shame it was with something I had been waiting to see! :)
I must admit in most case reviews I've seen they never really do go all out with cable management as I assume doing this work every day must take the buzz out of it compared to the average guy who only really builds a PC every year or so and takes super pride and care in the job as its for themselves
And looking again at the handprint photo, it doesn't look anywhere near as bad on my works monitor as it did at home on my 2407WFP, in fact you can hardly see anything.
"I knew the sides were noise insulated, but given that the material did not fill the entire panel and the case was still audible, it did not seem correct to heap praise on this feature."
Now that is an important piece of info and greatly affects my purchasing decision and now I guess I'll have to wait for other reviews to see if they say the same thing before I jump in and buy one.
Did you remove the interior panel to see it was only part filled?
"but to say that I was on my way out of the door at the time gives the wrong impression and makes me appear unprofessional, an implication I resent."
but it is ok to say "The fact that we got annoyed having to add rubber grommets to the screws ourselves is a decent indicator of just how lazy we are"?
I wouldn't say that was particularly professional either.
I also felt that your final comment "a case which isnt about being the coolest or the quietest, just about being the most stylish" wasnt really correct as that is exactly what this case was designed around and if they hadn't met this criteria then that was a huge negative for it. Of course it all depends on what you chose to put in it as to how loud it will be, but to me those temps seemed pretty decent and your comparison seemed to be against big fan filled cases for OCers and this isn't what this case is about.
anyway.... I'll shut up now.
And thanks for not jumping down my throat! (Or banning me on my very first post!):)
Originally Posted by mink Not even the women? must get pretty stinky in your office:|
:edit: I guess you dont get many women pc enthusiasts do you? and if you do they prolly look like geezers so would use the mens loo!
:|
It's a good thing my very attractive girlfriend hasn't read you saying that...
Besides, here bit-tech we have beetches of the highest caliber, Hiren captures and tames them from the wild, where they roam free and unmolested...sigh
Thanks for the review, but I have to say that I'm baffled by your trouble with the HDD installation. Your description sounds like it involves the same method as in the Lian-Li PC-A05, in which I built a PC for my dad a few months ago. I found it very easy. The procedure was laid out very clearly in a couple of diagrams in the case instruction sheet. Following these, HDD installation was completed in less than five minutes. Did you all ignore the instructions and just try to procede according to the methods of previous Lian-Li cases? Personally, I found this new method very smooth and convenient.
I disagree kingfearon, and really don't see how you can say "its by far better" without ever having actually used it. (I have it therefore it must be better). What more options has it that the B25 doesn't have apart from fitting a 120.3 rad which not everyone wants to do, The PC-A16 is a good case too and has that option of stripping the whole front out as you say, but it isn't very soundproof due to all the holes in the front where the PC-B25 has a soundproofed front door and side panels (waiting on another review to confirm how well they work). You can do exactly what you've done but using a 120.2 rad in the B25 which is enough for CPU and GPU if you're not an OCer, and being quieter. With the improved cable management and removing the hard drive cage leaves the bottom section totally open whereas the A16 still has the full rack sides. The side panels seem to be a love em or hate em affair but I personally prefer the overall look of the B25 to the A16. It's just all down to how much the B25 is going to cost!
Ever since the vulgar flame war (and thankfully cleaning up the messages), everyone seems to have abandoned this thread. I was enjoying reading all the comments about the Lian Li B25 case and review.
Does anyone know when this case will be available for purchase or how much it will cost? Are there any other independent reviews going on out there somewhere?
Hrm... For that kind of money, I guess I'd rather have a V-1000. Now, if they'd put that front door on a PC7H+, and sell it for $100 or so, that would be rather tempting.
Out of curiosity, do you know if there's a silver version being offered?
I can't say for sure but I think the GTX8800 will fit without any problems. If you look at the photo of the motherboard installed in the case (http://www.bit-tech.net/content_images/2007/09/lian-li_pc-b25/xb.jpg), it looks like there is about 1.5 to 2.0 inches of space beyond the motherboard. That should be a 9.6 inch MB and the GTX8800 is about 1 inch longer than the MB.
This is going to be my next case for sure, and I will have a GTX8800 or the next version (9800 or whatever). I would like to see a couple more reviews though, just to get some different perspectives on the case.
I don't think you can really compare the V-1000 case with the B25. This case is designed more for quiet than the V-series. All those holes in the front of the V-series cases will let noise flow right out, although it is a very nice looking and good performing case. I'm not too fond of the circle of blue light on the B25 but I love the insides, the 2 front 120 fans, dust filters, the added room due the the design of the hard drive rack, and I like a door to help block hard drive noise.
hmmm, sexy case hey...well each to their own, i dont think i've ever felt that way about a case but then thats probably why i'd never make part of the bit-tech team. Good article, but i just want to say that i'm bored of PC cases....manufacturers arent doing anything different and ok, maybe its really hard thinking of something new for a metal box, i know i cant think of anything right now but if you paid me £25k a year to design cases i might think a little harder and come up with something.
As for my case, i'm a Lian Li fanboy as from the first custom build pc (guided by felixthecat) i made i was introduced and never looked back from lian li. I have mates who've invested in the antec and coolermaster lines of casing, buying the premium cases (antec 180 i think) and the build quality is nothing on Lian Li, the brushed al finish on the outside is much more elegant, but upon looking inside i feel the antec's and cooler masters lack the look of quality all the way through, Lian Li simply looks rpofessional from start to finish, none of this cheap steel looking grills etc etc, i know i'm a fanboy so i'm biased anyways, but realistically i like to know what the pro's at bit-tech think without having to worry what sponsors are paying them (i'm new so i dont know if saying that is bad in the forums but we all know the PR buttering up happens).
Originally Posted by mrb_no1 but if you paid me £25k a year to design cases i might think a little harder and come up with something.
It's not about that - it's about being able to manufacture it on existing equipment without it costing too much and also appealing to the sensibility of the 95+% of people who think a computer case should be cuboid.
Quote:
but realistically i like to know what the pro's at bit-tech think without having to worry what sponsors are paying them (i'm new so i dont know if saying that is bad in the forums but we all know the PR buttering up happens).
It absolutely does not happen here mate. There's simply no point in being a PRs bitch since the readers can see through it and without a reputation the site is as good as useless - which means no one will read it - which means people won't advertise anyway. In fact, our editorial team is in a completely separate office to sales and no one here downstairs ever deals with anything but reviews :) Other sites may have different arrangements but we certainly wouldn't have come this far without this attitude.
We're all FAR too cynical and the Taiwanese couldn't afford us anyway :P hahaha :D When I make a post about driving a Ferrari to work - then ask again.
If somethings good, we'll say it's good, but if it's a turd we'll tell them that too - but also give some constructive criticism for a better product next time. There's no merit to anyone to just slag something off unless it's so far off the mark it's stupid, in which case we won't review it anyway because it wastes our time and your time. :)
Comments 51 to 75 of 95
To address some of the issues you raised, as I said at the start of the review, this is my first Lian-Li case and I'm not only learning with this specific product line, but obviously still learning with cases as a whole. There are a few things which we missed and have since amended in the review, such as the PSU cover which nobody in the office knew about at the time time.
There are a number of minor issues you raise, such as vented PCI slots which I was both aware about and took pictures of. However there is a cost/benefit element to consider when writing reviews and to comment on every single feature is something which is slightly impractical. Photography, testing, sourcing, writing and editing can take up enough time as it is and doubling the length of the review by discussing minor features like these would mean that the review was even further delayed.
In the past, before I joined BT, I understand that Bit-tech worked at this level of detail, however it does mean fewer reviews on the site - which can only be combatted by taking on more staff, which is problematic for a company of our size. Instead, we try to walk the middle line between quality and quantity.
I fully acknowledge that there elements of this case which I missed or didn't mention - I knew the sides were noise insulated, but given that the material did not fill the entire panel and the case was still audible, it did not seem correct to heap praise on this feature.
As for the PSU cover being on like that - that's how it was when we opened the box, which is the point of the pre-testing photos.
I admit I forgot to take the pictures of the installed system - but to say that I was on my way out of the door at the time gives the wrong impression and makes me appear unprofessional, an implication I resent. If I wasn't bothered with these picture then I wouldn't have taken them at all - instead I worked to correct my mistake and ended up overlooking the cable management.
The graphics card and hardware used in the testing is deliberately intended to be warm - hence the slow fan. We want to give the case some real heat to try and deal with, which is why we always use the same setup.
As for photos, I fully admit that I'm not a professional photographer and that my background is in writing. In the picture you link to I can't actually see a massive handprint, but I realise that there are fingermarks in places. Unfortunately, it's very hard to turn a case around and get the required photos without leaving handprints, especially on a easily marked case like this.
I do agree with you though - the case is gorgeous to look at and could be even better with a few LEDs.
Given the response to this review, you can all rest assured that the next bit-tech case review will take your advice and views into account. We make sure we always listen to the community here and always do our best to keep you all as informed and happy as possible. Each and every forum member we try to treat as a member of staff (in a way) with a say in the direction of the site and the content.
If anybody has anymore feedback regarding the review itself, the please feel free to contact me directly to further discuss the issue. You can PM me through the forums. :)
I must admit in most case reviews I've seen they never really do go all out with cable management as I assume doing this work every day must take the buzz out of it compared to the average guy who only really builds a PC every year or so and takes super pride and care in the job as its for themselves
And looking again at the handprint photo, it doesn't look anywhere near as bad on my works monitor as it did at home on my 2407WFP, in fact you can hardly see anything.
"I knew the sides were noise insulated, but given that the material did not fill the entire panel and the case was still audible, it did not seem correct to heap praise on this feature."
Now that is an important piece of info and greatly affects my purchasing decision and now I guess I'll have to wait for other reviews to see if they say the same thing before I jump in and buy one.
Did you remove the interior panel to see it was only part filled?
"but to say that I was on my way out of the door at the time gives the wrong impression and makes me appear unprofessional, an implication I resent."
but it is ok to say "The fact that we got annoyed having to add rubber grommets to the screws ourselves is a decent indicator of just how lazy we are"?
I wouldn't say that was particularly professional either.
I also felt that your final comment "a case which isnt about being the coolest or the quietest, just about being the most stylish" wasnt really correct as that is exactly what this case was designed around and if they hadn't met this criteria then that was a huge negative for it. Of course it all depends on what you chose to put in it as to how loud it will be, but to me those temps seemed pretty decent and your comparison seemed to be against big fan filled cases for OCers and this isn't what this case is about.
anyway.... I'll shut up now.
And thanks for not jumping down my throat! (Or banning me on my very first post!):)
Too late! I've already beaten the crap out of him for his noobness!
YOU WILL NOT MAKE THE MISTAKES AGAIN! YOU HEAR ME, JOE! IT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH!!
Do it again and we'll move your desk to the room with no windows (aka - the toilet).
;)
:edit: I guess you dont get many women pc enthusiasts do you? and if you do they prolly look like geezers so would use the mens loo!
:|
It's a good thing my very attractive girlfriend hasn't read you saying that...
Besides, here bit-tech we have beetches of the highest caliber, Hiren captures and tames them from the wild, where they roam free and unmolested...sigh
It got a lot better a while ago ;)
Read up, and try again? I believe you should have insinuated something about his mother.
[/sarcasm]
@kingfearon: Jeez, there's no need to get so worked up. State your points, but don't start throwing insults around. We're not cavemen, right?
The comments following it had me pissing my pants! hilarious stuff
Wise words for the young (and retarded)(or both)(kingfearon)
Does anyone know when this case will be available for purchase or how much it will cost? Are there any other independent reviews going on out there somewhere?
Joe
That is all, Gentlemen.
Out of curiosity, do you know if there's a silver version being offered?
This is going to be my next case for sure, and I will have a GTX8800 or the next version (9800 or whatever). I would like to see a couple more reviews though, just to get some different perspectives on the case.
The Lian Li site shows both black and silver versions of this case: http://www.lian-li.com/product/product05.php?pr_index=125&cl_index=1&sc_index=1&ss_index=5
I don't think you can really compare the V-1000 case with the B25. This case is designed more for quiet than the V-series. All those holes in the front of the V-series cases will let noise flow right out, although it is a very nice looking and good performing case. I'm not too fond of the circle of blue light on the B25 but I love the insides, the 2 front 120 fans, dust filters, the added room due the the design of the hard drive rack, and I like a door to help block hard drive noise.
As for my case, i'm a Lian Li fanboy as from the first custom build pc (guided by felixthecat) i made i was introduced and never looked back from lian li. I have mates who've invested in the antec and coolermaster lines of casing, buying the premium cases (antec 180 i think) and the build quality is nothing on Lian Li, the brushed al finish on the outside is much more elegant, but upon looking inside i feel the antec's and cooler masters lack the look of quality all the way through, Lian Li simply looks rpofessional from start to finish, none of this cheap steel looking grills etc etc, i know i'm a fanboy so i'm biased anyways, but realistically i like to know what the pro's at bit-tech think without having to worry what sponsors are paying them (i'm new so i dont know if saying that is bad in the forums but we all know the PR buttering up happens).
peace
fatman
Personally as both a Lian Li and Antec owner, I much prefer my Antec. Just seems to have more useful features.
It's not about that - it's about being able to manufacture it on existing equipment without it costing too much and also appealing to the sensibility of the 95+% of people who think a computer case should be cuboid.
It absolutely does not happen here mate. There's simply no point in being a PRs bitch since the readers can see through it and without a reputation the site is as good as useless - which means no one will read it - which means people won't advertise anyway. In fact, our editorial team is in a completely separate office to sales and no one here downstairs ever deals with anything but reviews :) Other sites may have different arrangements but we certainly wouldn't have come this far without this attitude.
We're all FAR too cynical and the Taiwanese couldn't afford us anyway :P hahaha :D When I make a post about driving a Ferrari to work - then ask again.
If somethings good, we'll say it's good, but if it's a turd we'll tell them that too - but also give some constructive criticism for a better product next time. There's no merit to anyone to just slag something off unless it's so far off the mark it's stupid, in which case we won't review it anyway because it wastes our time and your time. :)