Originally Posted by willyolio a question about leak testing... for pumps that are powered off the PSU, how would you turn everything on for 24 hours without connecting at least the motherboard?
Plug a paperclip between the green wire and a black wire on the motherboard connector.
I never had a pump fail on me; then again I never used a cheap pump. IMHO; stick with DangerDen, Swiftech, EK-Waterblocks, Hardware-Labs, and LIANG components and you'll be fine. The kits on the market generally only perform on par with (or slightly better than) a good heat-pipe cooler.
Originally Posted by willyolio a question about leak testing... for pumps that are powered off the PSU, how would you turn everything on for 24 hours without connecting at least the motherboard?
You say how water is better then air at conducting heat away
However, if we look at the loop
CPU -> heatsink (waterblock in a loop) -> water -> radiator -> air
For air: CPU -> heatsink (usually a block of copper if you pay enough) -> air
Now as you said metal is much better at conducting heat, and they both end up going to air anyway
Why add all the complexity of the water loop in, when you can do it all in metal at the spot of the heat
You don't actually cover this, and you say how water is so much better then air, but in fact, the air doesn't actually move the heat from the heatsink to the area where its dissipated, the metal does
The only reason Ive found that water is better, is because you can have such huge surface areas on the radiator, which you cant get on air cooling (for some reason)
So really, watercooling allows bigger, heavier heatsinks, and that's the biggest advantage
Originally Posted by completemadness One thing i have to say
You say how water is better then air at conducting heat away
However, if we look at the loop
CPU -> heatsink (waterblock in a loop) -> water -> radiator -> air
For air: CPU -> heatsink (usually a block of copper if you pay enough) -> air
Now as you said metal is much better at conducting heat, and they both end up going to air anyway
Why add all the complexity of the water loop in, when you can do it all in metal at the spot of the heat
You don't actually cover this, and you say how water is so much better then air, but in fact, the air doesn't actually move the heat from the heatsink to the area where its dissipated, the metal does
The only reason Ive found that water is better, is because you can have such huge surface areas on the radiator, which you cant get on air cooling (for some reason)
So really, watercooling allows bigger, heavier heatsinks, and that's the biggest advantage
Not only that; but in a standard HSF the heat must first travel through a solid mass at the center of the heatsink before it enters the fins. With a H2O loop, it's effectively like having the fins mounted directly to the surface of the CPU (the heat doesn't travel through the water, but rather the water moves the heat from the CPU to the RAD). Also, the radiator fins are significantly thinner than those in a HSF, and as such heat is more easily dissipated through them.
Originally Posted by radodrill Not only that; but in a standard HSF the heat must first travel through a solid mass at the center of the heatsink before it enters the fins. With a H2O loop, it's effectively like having the fins mounted directly to the surface of the CPU (the heat doesn't travel through the water, but rather the water moves the heat from the CPU to the RAD). Also, the radiator fins are significantly thinner than those in a HSF, and as such heat is more easily dissipated through them.
but isn't the conductivity of copper a lot better, so why isn't it better to have it go through a lump of copper rather then through water ?
Why can you not build a HSF with very small fins like a rad ?
because physically moving the heat away is millions of times faster than letting it go through via conduction. unless you have a machine that presses copper blocks to your CPU, takes it somewhere else to be cooled and sticks another block on repeatedly...
you can have heatsinks with extra-thin fins, but it still doesn't solve the problem of being able to fit very large fans on... 120mm is pretty uncommon for CPUs, and 2x or 3x 120mm is, well, unheard of. they just won't fit. there's also the problem of the location: the CPU cooler has to be by the CPU. unless you plan your case out very well, the fan is, for the most part, recirculating the air and heating up the inside your case. you can put your radiator right by the exhaust, ensuring that all the heated air is ejected out of the case.
Originally Posted by completemadness but isn't the conductivity of copper a lot better, so why isn't it better to have it go through a lump of copper rather then through water ?
Why can you not build a HSF with very small fins like a rad ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by willyolio because physically moving the heat away is millions of times faster than letting it go through via conduction. unless you have a machine that presses copper blocks to your CPU, takes it somewhere else to be cooled and sticks another block on repeatedly...
you can have heatsinks with extra-thin fins, but it still doesn't solve the problem of being able to fit very large fans on... 120mm is pretty uncommon for CPUs, and 2x or 3x 120mm is, well, unheard of. they just won't fit. there's also the problem of the location: the CPU cooler has to be by the CPU. unless you plan your case out very well, the fan is, for the most part, recirculating the air and heating up the inside your case. you can put your radiator right by the exhaust, ensuring that all the heated air is ejected out of the case.
and thanks for the PSU info, guys.
Exactly; water absorbs the heat from the CPU better than air; the pump moves the water to the RAD; the fin structure of the rad is much thinner than that of a HSF (~0.01mm vs ~1mm) so it's easier to dissipate the heat to the air. If they were to try making HSF fins that thin they'd be way too fragile; in a rad it can be done because there's a lot more supporting the fins.
Quote:
Originally Posted by laynesassepd is there better liquids than water?? that are safe?? what about liquid metal?? radiator fluid?? freeon(SP?)?? imagin an air conditioned system
Engine coolant actually has a lower thermal conductivity than H2O; it has glycol to lower the freezing point, which is critical when you park a car outside in the winter.
A liquid metal would be more viscous than water, and as such, harder to pump through a cooling loop.
Freon is used in an AC/refrigeration system for it's phase characteristics; between the heat exchanger and the evaporator it's a liquid, and a gas in the rest of the loop; it's that phase change in the evaporator that is utilized in cooling processes. At room temperature and pressure, freon is a gas, as such it'd be hard to use in a "standard" cooling loop.
BTW, you can buy vapor/phase change systems built for PC cooling. They provide significantly lower temps than H2O cooling (~-40C); but are very expensive (IIRC ~$1500).
Originally Posted by laynesassepd is there better liquids than water?? that are safe?? what about liquid metal??
There are other fluids that are better at moving heat away then water, but they are often very hard to work with, and the liquid metals and stuff require a sealed system etc etc
Its just a lot easier to go with water, and a lot safer
In fact, quite a few nuclear reactors are cooled by liquid sodium i believe
Quote:
radiator fluid?? freeon(SP?)??
What are these ?
Quote:
imagin an air conditioned system
This is basically phase change cooling
In a typical air con, the coolant goes into a radiator, air is blown over this to cool it
In PCC you instead pipe the coolant into the "heatsink" which lowers the cooling area dramatically, bringing you to like -60°C
About that phasechange cooling, there are two main brands: Extreme Cooling Technologies (ECT, formerly Prometeia; the Mach(2) series) and Asetek (the Vapochill series). Retail prices vary from 500 - 1000 USD (I once bought a new Prometeia Mach2 for $700), but often you can also get them 2nd hand for 200-500 USD. The downsides to these systems are mainly the noise (much like a fridge), size and weight (up to 15kg).
If the vapor system is correctly/carefully installed then it has significant advantages. The whole CPU area is thermally/electronically insulated so that condensation won't form on the MB itself.
Originally Posted by Computerking I was wondering what "101" on the tittle mean? Thanks very much.
:) It's a term used for "beginner course". In uni here in the states, at least, courses are numbered like English 101, 102 (for first year, first semester and second semester), then 201, 202 (for second year, first semester, etc.) and so on and so forth.
You'll be seeing this a lot as we get further into tutorials - so you'd probably best get used to it like this:
101 = beginner lesson, no previous knowledge of the subject necessary.
102, etc = further beginning tutorials, may be based on 101
201 = intermediate lesson, definitely requires mastering the 101 article
202, etc. = as above
301 = advanced lesson
We're going to be using this to help group tutorials in the future in a far-off, distant I-can't-tell-you-yet cool project that is cooking, but for now hopefully this will help you to know how much knowledge you are expected to have before you read this article. :)
Originally Posted by Da Dego :) It's a term used for "beginner course". In uni here in the states, at least, courses are numbered like English 101, 102 (for first year, first semester and second semester), then 201, 202 (for second year, first semester, etc.) and so on and so forth.
You'll be seeing this a lot as we get further into tutorials - so you'd probably best get used to it like this:
101 = beginner lesson, no previous knowledge of the subject necessary.
102, etc = further beginning tutorials, may be based on 101
201 = intermediate lesson, definitely requires mastering the 101 article
202, etc. = as above
301 = advanced lesson
We're going to be using this to help group tutorials in the future in a far-off, distant I-can't-tell-you-yet cool project that is cooking, but for now hopefully this will help you to know how much knowledge you are expected to have before you read this article. :)
WOOT This is KICKASS WAY really :D We are the GEEKS, HAHA but Thanks alot to tell me this information Now nothing confusing me
Now I know why I found that lesson easy.. Because my level is 301 :)
Originally Posted by Da Dego ...It's a term used for "beginner course". In uni here in the states, at least, courses are numbered like English 101, 102 ...
We're going to be using this to help group tutorials in the future in a far-off, distant I-can't-tell-you-yet cool project that is cooking, but for now hopefully this will help you to know how much knowledge you are expected to have before you read this article. :)
Comments 51 to 71 of 71
Plug a paperclip between the green wire and a black wire on the motherboard connector.
Powering an ATX PSU Without a Motherboard
Hope that helps :)
You say how water is better then air at conducting heat away
However, if we look at the loop
CPU -> heatsink (waterblock in a loop) -> water -> radiator -> air
For air: CPU -> heatsink (usually a block of copper if you pay enough) -> air
Now as you said metal is much better at conducting heat, and they both end up going to air anyway
Why add all the complexity of the water loop in, when you can do it all in metal at the spot of the heat
You don't actually cover this, and you say how water is so much better then air, but in fact, the air doesn't actually move the heat from the heatsink to the area where its dissipated, the metal does
The only reason Ive found that water is better, is because you can have such huge surface areas on the radiator, which you cant get on air cooling (for some reason)
So really, watercooling allows bigger, heavier heatsinks, and that's the biggest advantage
Not only that; but in a standard HSF the heat must first travel through a solid mass at the center of the heatsink before it enters the fins. With a H2O loop, it's effectively like having the fins mounted directly to the surface of the CPU (the heat doesn't travel through the water, but rather the water moves the heat from the CPU to the RAD). Also, the radiator fins are significantly thinner than those in a HSF, and as such heat is more easily dissipated through them.
Why can you not build a HSF with very small fins like a rad ?
you can have heatsinks with extra-thin fins, but it still doesn't solve the problem of being able to fit very large fans on... 120mm is pretty uncommon for CPUs, and 2x or 3x 120mm is, well, unheard of. they just won't fit. there's also the problem of the location: the CPU cooler has to be by the CPU. unless you plan your case out very well, the fan is, for the most part, recirculating the air and heating up the inside your case. you can put your radiator right by the exhaust, ensuring that all the heated air is ejected out of the case.
and thanks for the PSU info, guys.
Please digg if you would like to share! :)
Exactly; water absorbs the heat from the CPU better than air; the pump moves the water to the RAD; the fin structure of the rad is much thinner than that of a HSF (~0.01mm vs ~1mm) so it's easier to dissipate the heat to the air. If they were to try making HSF fins that thin they'd be way too fragile; in a rad it can be done because there's a lot more supporting the fins.
Engine coolant actually has a lower thermal conductivity than H2O; it has glycol to lower the freezing point, which is critical when you park a car outside in the winter.
A liquid metal would be more viscous than water, and as such, harder to pump through a cooling loop.
Freon is used in an AC/refrigeration system for it's phase characteristics; between the heat exchanger and the evaporator it's a liquid, and a gas in the rest of the loop; it's that phase change in the evaporator that is utilized in cooling processes. At room temperature and pressure, freon is a gas, as such it'd be hard to use in a "standard" cooling loop.
BTW, you can buy vapor/phase change systems built for PC cooling. They provide significantly lower temps than H2O cooling (~-40C); but are very expensive (IIRC ~$1500).
Its just a lot easier to go with water, and a lot safer
In fact, quite a few nuclear reactors are cooled by liquid sodium i believe
In a typical air con, the coolant goes into a radiator, air is blown over this to cool it
In PCC you instead pipe the coolant into the "heatsink" which lowers the cooling area dramatically, bringing you to like -60°C
to me, theve allways sounded like more effort then their really worth, i guess it depends if you can afford to lose your PC ;)
:) It's a term used for "beginner course". In uni here in the states, at least, courses are numbered like English 101, 102 (for first year, first semester and second semester), then 201, 202 (for second year, first semester, etc.) and so on and so forth.
You'll be seeing this a lot as we get further into tutorials - so you'd probably best get used to it like this:
101 = beginner lesson, no previous knowledge of the subject necessary.
102, etc = further beginning tutorials, may be based on 101
201 = intermediate lesson, definitely requires mastering the 101 article
202, etc. = as above
301 = advanced lesson
We're going to be using this to help group tutorials in the future in a far-off, distant I-can't-tell-you-yet cool project that is cooking, but for now hopefully this will help you to know how much knowledge you are expected to have before you read this article. :)
WOOT This is KICKASS WAY really :D We are the GEEKS, HAHA but Thanks alot to tell me this information Now nothing confusing me
Now I know why I found that lesson easy.. Because my level is 301 :)
Thanks alot my brother :D Take care