It's only got 3 rails though, so it needs more amps to compensate. You either have more rails and fewer amps per rail or fewer rails and more amps along them.
Originally Posted by Bindibadgi It's only got 3 rails though, so it needs more amps to compensate. You either have more rails and fewer amps per rail or fewer rails and more amps along them.
I think people are being led to believe that more rails are better than fewer in a power supply and that simply makes no sense at all. From what I'm understanding, anything more than a single rail is a compromise and is likely done to cut costs. I have yet to hear any compelling claims to a performance advantage to the use of multiple rails. From PCP&C we get this:
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With all the hype about multiple 12-volt rails (ads claim that two rails is better than one, five is better than four, etc.), youd think it was a better design. Unfortunately, its not!
Here are the facts: A large, single 12-volt rail (without a 240VA limit) can transfer 100% of the 12-volt output from the PSU to the computer, while a multi-rail 12-volt design has distribution losses of up to 30% of the power supplys rating. Those losses occur because power literally gets trapped on under-utilized rails. For example, if the 12-volt rail that powers the CPU is rated for 17 amps and the CPU only uses 7A, the remaining 10A is unusable, since it is isolated from the rest of the system.
Since the maximum current from any one 12-volt rail of a multiple-rail PSU is limited to 20 amps (240VA / 12 volts = 20 amps), PCs with high-performance components that draw over 20 amps from the same rail are subject to over-current shutdowns. With power requirements for multiple processors and graphics cards continuing to grow, the multiple-rail design, with its 240VA limit per rail, is basically obsolete.
Granted, that's from a manufacturer who uses a single rail design, but their explanation makes sense to me, nonetheless.
I have yet to hear a compelling argument for using more rails than are necessary, except for the manufacturer to cut costs. The lowest amount necessary is one.
It really is a shame PC Power and Cooling's 750W Silencer wasn't included in the mix, because from a performance standpoint, it appears to be the class of the field.
Originally Posted by Jodiuh According to Jonnyguru, the Seasonic, Corsair, and PC P&C Silencer all share similar parts. So if your Seasonic 700 didn't fair very well...
The Seasonic has four 12V rails, don't know about Corsair (didn't know they made a 700+W PSU), PCP&C has a single rail... different fan arrangements and guts, connectors, etc., so although Jonnyguru says they share similar parts, and they might have some common poieces, they're not the same units.
^^^ The same thing applies with those three... the PCP&C uses a single rail, the other two use four rails...
Hey, I didn't even know about this stuff, until putting a 12V actuator in my rig that draws a good bit of juice, but only on occaision. It took some searching around, but the single rail thing seemed to be a perfect solution for my rather special thing.
But the more I got to thinking on it, its really a big design difference and its one that lots of people seem to skim right past. I mean, you plug things in and expect them to get juice, but if you have four rails dividing it up, you could easily have something running on a tapped out rail.
In the Cooler Master Real Power Pro 850W test they say:
The same sadly isn't replicated in the 8-pin 12V connector, as it is on an entirely separate cable to the 4-pin 12V connector. As the unit is not modular, this means you've always got an extra cable to hide away or fear the wrath of cable mess on your airflow and internal case looks.
I've got the modular version of this PSU and both the 4pin and 8pin are also not modular on that one, so even on the modular version you have to hide the extra cable, or hack it of :D
1. You only measured the point of the rail, not how stabley it did it. It might be at 3.3 for one test, and 3.29 for the others, but if the rail fluctuates, it wouldn't be as good as one that stays at one point continually
2. No crossload tests.
3. No ripple tests
4. All testing was done at room temperature. The insides of a real case would not be room temperature. It Will be significantly warmer. When that happens, the internal temperatures of the power supply will rise, and the power supply will not be putting out what it says it will, in most cases. Efficiency will drop, exhaust temperatures will rise, etc.
5. no gut shots.
Originally Posted by Bindibadgi At 100% load only. Most people won't run it at 100% load and I can't knock it since it still worked after an hour at full load and temperature and provides an almost all green graph.
Actually, No PC now needs 750 or 850w. Most computers will draw maybe 200w full load. even an 8800ultra with a kentsfield won't draw anywhere near 750-800w.
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Originally Posted by bindibadgi That's because they don't load them 100%, they just throw a test system at them. Also, it's not universally hot, just hotspots at the opposite end to the fan. We used an remote IR sensor to detect the internal temps.
It's just a group test not a round up, it's not definitive.
Actually, many of the places which the etasis 750 is shown to be good at is done with strict controlled environments, ate's, fun equipment, etc.
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70°C is not realy high. Most modern power semiconductors are spec'ed @125°C, or even higher temperatures. They simply work perfectly at 100°C+ temperatures.
The only problem could be are the electrolytic capacitators, but the better ones can work for thousand of hours @105°C temperature. And much longer at lower temperatures like 70-80°C.
Just don't touch it
At that temperature, it would definatly not be good. It probubly would work, but it's not recommended. Some power supplies will shut off if they are exposed to such high temperatures.
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from the whole review of the etasis i understood it to be the worst, with high temps at even 50% load. seems like temps and efficiency would count more than a little extra noise and a 5v that most psu's have probs with because honestly, how often does that get hit for 100%? thought based on what i saw, the etasis should have been rated a 5, maybe 6...the hiper as a 6, and the seasonic as a 7. that can be a problem though i guess with numerical (1-10) ratings like this...its subjective to...changing importance on certain aspects of the component being rated. but like you said, its a roundup and not a diffinitive "pick this one"...can't wait for the 500-650 roundup.
Actually, I interprete the reason for the etasis being so bad is because of efficiency. The platform is not designed to be efficient. It's based on a server psu platform. what it does do well, is hold onto its voltages, and provide consistant clean power, which delivers on what is claimed by the manufacturer.
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It really is a shame PC Power and Cooling's 750W Silencer wasn't included in the mix, because from a performance standpoint, it appears to be the class of the field.
Actually, the Silencer is made by Seasonic. I'd take a good industrial server psu over it, for the reason that for what you're getting, it's rather expensive. That, and silence with a single 80mm screamer? right.. PCP&C seems to be a fan of the "cram more electronics in, and then toss in an 80mm screamer" when they could see massive benefits with using higher efficiency (silencer series excluded) designs.
Quote:
The Seasonic has four 12V rails, don't know about Corsair (didn't know they made a 700+W PSU), PCP&C has a single rail... different fan arrangements and guts, connectors, etc., so although Jonnyguru says they share similar parts, and they might have some common poieces, they're not the same units.
They're single railed, but when the stickers and manual were printed, they were on an older version of atx spec, and to comply with the specifications, they had to stretch the truth.
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Replygreat reveiw tho thanks looking forward to the 1KW review
I have yet to hear a compelling argument for using more rails than are necessary, except for the manufacturer to cut costs. The lowest amount necessary is one.
It really is a shame PC Power and Cooling's 750W Silencer wasn't included in the mix, because from a performance standpoint, it appears to be the class of the field.
I own the 610 Silencer and it rarely gets anywhere near warm. Then again, I'm probably only pulling 350-450 from it.
Nice test rig
any one got an spare PCI-E Power cable for this PSU lost mine lol
PC Power & Cooling Silencer 610
SeaSonic S12 Energy Plus SS-650HT
CORSAIR CMPSU-620HX
SPCR has a pretty good testing setup and dug the M12. I'm very surprised to see it do so bad in your tests. :(
Hey, I didn't even know about this stuff, until putting a 12V actuator in my rig that draws a good bit of juice, but only on occaision. It took some searching around, but the single rail thing seemed to be a perfect solution for my rather special thing.
But the more I got to thinking on it, its really a big design difference and its one that lots of people seem to skim right past. I mean, you plug things in and expect them to get juice, but if you have four rails dividing it up, you could easily have something running on a tapped out rail.
The same sadly isn't replicated in the 8-pin 12V connector, as it is on an entirely separate cable to the 4-pin 12V connector. As the unit is not modular, this means you've always got an extra cable to hide away or fear the wrath of cable mess on your airflow and internal case looks.
I've got the modular version of this PSU and both the 4pin and 8pin are also not modular on that one, so even on the modular version you have to hide the extra cable, or hack it of :D
1. You only measured the point of the rail, not how stabley it did it. It might be at 3.3 for one test, and 3.29 for the others, but if the rail fluctuates, it wouldn't be as good as one that stays at one point continually
2. No crossload tests.
3. No ripple tests
4. All testing was done at room temperature. The insides of a real case would not be room temperature. It Will be significantly warmer. When that happens, the internal temperatures of the power supply will rise, and the power supply will not be putting out what it says it will, in most cases. Efficiency will drop, exhaust temperatures will rise, etc.
5. no gut shots.
Actually, No PC now needs 750 or 850w. Most computers will draw maybe 200w full load. even an 8800ultra with a kentsfield won't draw anywhere near 750-800w.
Actually, many of the places which the etasis 750 is shown to be good at is done with strict controlled environments, ate's, fun equipment, etc.
At that temperature, it would definatly not be good. It probubly would work, but it's not recommended. Some power supplies will shut off if they are exposed to such high temperatures.
Actually, the Silencer is made by Seasonic. I'd take a good industrial server psu over it, for the reason that for what you're getting, it's rather expensive. That, and silence with a single 80mm screamer? right.. PCP&C seems to be a fan of the "cram more electronics in, and then toss in an 80mm screamer" when they could see massive benefits with using higher efficiency (silencer series excluded) designs.
They're single railed, but when the stickers and manual were printed, they were on an older version of atx spec, and to comply with the specifications, they had to stretch the truth.
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