Originally Posted by Bindibadgi A separate is something like a Hi-Fi box that does one specific function. People stack them up so you can have stuff like a tuner, decoder, amp, DVD player etc. Some come with more than one function but basically it allows you to tailor your Hi-Fi setup for your exact needs.
Someone else will probably explain it better.
I think I understand what you're getting at, but could you point me to any examples? Thanks for all the clarifications. :)
Check under audio/mp3 and there's loads of different types for various things.
Oh, I see. But how do you connect one of those to your PC? Don't you still need a soundcard, since a receiver only routes the connections rather than creating sound?
Yea, you can use the S/PDIF out, or you can use a few 3.5mm to two coaxial adapters (but you loose the Dolby live and DTS options) on the soundcard and cable it into a receiver which then connects to your speaker setup.
Optical S/PDIF is better if you're using greater distances but you cant bend the cable as much and poorer quality cable has less of a dramatic effect. Also, you don't get electrical and magnetic interference with light, however, die hard audio enthusiasts will say that digital coaxial (electrical) S/PDIF is better because it keeps the signal electrical rather than having it undergo two electrical to optical conversions, possibly reducing the sound quality. For separates stacked on top of each other with minimal distance this is generally the preferred method but the Sondigo only has optical S/PDIF however it is possible to convert it; you can buy little boxes from specialists.
While this card looks good, keep in mind with Vista EAX does not matter anyways with Creative cards.
BUT, also remember Creative cards are the only ones out that support hardware openAL. The new Cmedia chipset on this card and other one don't have that.
Correct me if im wrong here, but i don't see any mention of it on there site.
I am quite impressed you are opting to keep the Sondigo Inferno over a X-Fi Fatal1ty. I assume you are not a gamer and are more interested in fidelity.
I am a bit of an audio newb so bear with me as I would like to learn a little more about the components on this card.
Quote:
On the card there are 4 AKM AK4396 Stereo DACs which provide DVD-A/SACD level fidelity for professional audio applications, and six JRC 4580 dual channel op-amps - often found in $300/£200 DVD players and the $1000 Toshiba HD-XA1 HD DVD player. The Wolfson WM8785 is an ADC rated at 111dB (Analogue weighted @ 48KHz) with 16-32bit and 8-192KHz support.
Could someone please explain to me why the need for 4 DACs and 6 dual channel op-amps. What determines the necessary ratio of DAC's to op-amps, do they provide more bandwidth or processing power than say a single DAC and op-amp combination.
What exactly is the Wolfson WM8785 ADC responsible for?
Quote:
The analogue audio is specifically handled by the CMI9780, an 8 channel AC'97 2.3 codec. The codec is coupled with 117dB SNR DACs which provide an effective SNR of ~110dB. This compares to the Creative SoundBlaster X-Fi Xtreme Music, Platinum and Fatal1ty soundcards at 109dB and the Elite Pro at 116dB. Typical onboard HD Audio only has 85-95dB SNR DACs, so it's clear that this thing is pimped out with the best consumer level stuff you can get.
I also wonder about the AC'97 codec, the review mentions it is coupled with 117dB SNR DACs. Would that be the 4 AKM AK4396 Stereo DACs?
What makes for a decent codec other than its pairing with high SNR DAC?
I watch videos and listen to music every day. I play games, on pc, about once a month when something new comes out. Mostly it's the 360 these days. If you're an online addict and play the same game with EAX every day then obviously the X-Fi is your choice, but if you're a modest gamer who enjoys the whole entertainment PC experience and EAX doesn't really add much to the ocassional game. It's not like it's unplayable without it, I shot through Quake 4 and Prey without it when I played them and it's a noticable difference but I couldn't really care tbh. It's not like I have to buy a huge monitor and an SLI setup either.
ADCs are analouge to digital converters for mic/line in inputs. 4 DACs = 8 channel (7 + 1 sub). the Op-amps are, for amplification of all the channels: 8 out + 4 in = 12.
It's based on AC97 spec, which Intel's Azalia HD Audio is derived from. The "117dB SNR DACs" are the 4 stereo AKMs (4x2 = 8 channel). I'm not entirely sure what the split is between the Oxygen "processor" and the AC'97 codec. I think the codec is basically used to split the audio and provide the input/outputs and the oxygen IC does the PCI bus conversion, S/PDIF, Dolby/DTS (although most of the actual processing is done on the CPU).
No word on the actual chip it uses yet though, so I'll hold my breath but I'd probably put a bit of money on the fact it uses the same DACs and probably a similar audio processor looking at that pro-picture.
I have just recieved one of these cards myself replacing a rather old SB Live Platinum (non 5.1) /w Digital IO board. So far I am very impressed with it although I have a lot more "playing around to do". The sound quality is signifigantly higher than my previous card.
The key feature to me is this cards flexible Digital Output - specifically the DTS Interactive / Dolby Digital Live modes. I've waited 9 years for Creative Labs to implement this feature but they have not delivered. As someone who used to use exclusively Creative sound cards right from my AWE32 I'm rather disappointed. I'm pretty sure that the only reason they are not offering this is simply royalty/licensing fees to DD/DTS which really can't be that much. Considering the high price of the higher model Xi-fi cards, what is a couple bucks to add this technology in and please the niche market who actually pays for the higher end models. The Inferno costs LESS and has this feature.
Creative would also be able to market their cards as having Dolby Digital/DTS support complete with a bunch of logos and stickers for their box and website. While many home users may not use the digital technology ("digital" speaker systems with built in decoding would simplify things for a lot of home users) they would recognize the logos from their equipment in the living room and go "oh my expensive system has that this card must be good"
Back to the Inferno, I forgot what it was like to install a 20MB set of apps vs a 250MB set of apps and it just "works". Everything out of the box works as promised, it is not "this isn't supported in Windows XP SP2 wait for the next software upgrade when we release the next product". I was up and running in minutes. While a tad cluttered, the software was functional and I didn't feel like it was sucking the life out of my system (no big tool bars, and as I hear advertising bars)
I have not experimented with the analog outputs on the card as I am using the digital output direct to my Sony STRDA3000ES AV Reciever (which uses digital s-master amps which are supposed to keep the signal digital up to the last minute). It is a nice pairing. Should my PC gain the ability to play DVD Audio or something I still have the ability to use the analog inputs using the sound cards DAC's which from my research appear to be higher end (someone who is into professional recording would be able to comment better on them).
The only downside I see to this card is the lack of a break out box or additional backplate to add additional connectivity. Myself personally, I didn't require the additional hookups but someoen who does recording may desire the additional plugs (this is where that Auzentech card would step in at this time)
Anyhow I look forward to enjoying this card and would recommend it to fellow Home theater buffs anyday.
Originally Posted by SmartDrv ...
Back to the Inferno, I forgot what it was like to install a 20MB set of apps vs a 250MB set of apps and it just "works". Everything out of the box works as promised, it is not "this isn't supported in Windows XP SP2 wait for the next software upgrade when we release the next product". I was up and running in minutes. While a tad cluttered, the software was functional and I didn't feel like it was sucking the life out of my system (no big tool bars, and as I hear advertising bars)
...
Bindibadgi I think you may have mislabelled a couple of components in your review of the Sondigo Inferno. The two components in question are the AKM AK4396 2 channel DACS and JRC 4580 OP-AMPS.
Back to the Inferno, I forgot what it was like to install a 20MB set of apps vs a 250MB set of apps and it just "works". Everything out of the box works as promised, it is not "this isn't supported in Windows XP SP2 wait for the next software upgrade when we release the next product". I was up and running in minutes. While a tad cluttered, the software was functional and I didn't feel like it was sucking the life out of my system (no big tool bars, and as I hear advertising bars)
cough *creative* cough lol as rightly said above.. qft
but it was just so hard to resist... a friend of mine who is an audiophile did not like the issues he was getting with his x-fi and he sold it to me for £25 and so i bought it (keeping note that I never had a sound card in my 2 year old pc and just used the on board sound) and I was happy with the quality although I feel like somethings missing. My friend got a new maudio card, and imma get his xfi this monday.
I have been looking at the market for a new sound card, but the xfi never for once was on my list.. it was either the audigy 2 zs, some trust sound card... and i think this would have been the winner if I did not get my xfi. It works, looks nice, and performs according to the reviewer. So its more than enough to supply my needs.
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ReplyCheck under audio/mp3 and there's loads of different types for various things.
Optical S/PDIF is better if you're using greater distances but you cant bend the cable as much and poorer quality cable has less of a dramatic effect. Also, you don't get electrical and magnetic interference with light, however, die hard audio enthusiasts will say that digital coaxial (electrical) S/PDIF is better because it keeps the signal electrical rather than having it undergo two electrical to optical conversions, possibly reducing the sound quality. For separates stacked on top of each other with minimal distance this is generally the preferred method but the Sondigo only has optical S/PDIF however it is possible to convert it; you can buy little boxes from specialists.
[edit] EEP! 150$?? nvm then
BUT, also remember Creative cards are the only ones out that support hardware openAL. The new Cmedia chipset on this card and other one don't have that.
Correct me if im wrong here, but i don't see any mention of it on there site.
I am a bit of an audio newb so bear with me as I would like to learn a little more about the components on this card.
Could someone please explain to me why the need for 4 DACs and 6 dual channel op-amps. What determines the necessary ratio of DAC's to op-amps, do they provide more bandwidth or processing power than say a single DAC and op-amp combination.
What exactly is the Wolfson WM8785 ADC responsible for?
I also wonder about the AC'97 codec, the review mentions it is coupled with 117dB SNR DACs. Would that be the 4 AKM AK4396 Stereo DACs?
What makes for a decent codec other than its pairing with high SNR DAC?
ADCs are analouge to digital converters for mic/line in inputs. 4 DACs = 8 channel (7 + 1 sub). the Op-amps are, for amplification of all the channels: 8 out + 4 in = 12.
It's based on AC97 spec, which Intel's Azalia HD Audio is derived from. The "117dB SNR DACs" are the 4 stereo AKMs (4x2 = 8 channel). I'm not entirely sure what the split is between the Oxygen "processor" and the AC'97 codec. I think the codec is basically used to split the audio and provide the input/outputs and the oxygen IC does the PCI bus conversion, S/PDIF, Dolby/DTS (although most of the actual processing is done on the CPU).
You guys might find it interesting to know Razer are developing a gaming audio card. You can check out some details on the Razer barracuda.
The key feature to me is this cards flexible Digital Output - specifically the DTS Interactive / Dolby Digital Live modes. I've waited 9 years for Creative Labs to implement this feature but they have not delivered. As someone who used to use exclusively Creative sound cards right from my AWE32 I'm rather disappointed. I'm pretty sure that the only reason they are not offering this is simply royalty/licensing fees to DD/DTS which really can't be that much. Considering the high price of the higher model Xi-fi cards, what is a couple bucks to add this technology in and please the niche market who actually pays for the higher end models. The Inferno costs LESS and has this feature.
Creative would also be able to market their cards as having Dolby Digital/DTS support complete with a bunch of logos and stickers for their box and website. While many home users may not use the digital technology ("digital" speaker systems with built in decoding would simplify things for a lot of home users) they would recognize the logos from their equipment in the living room and go "oh my expensive system has that this card must be good"
Back to the Inferno, I forgot what it was like to install a 20MB set of apps vs a 250MB set of apps and it just "works". Everything out of the box works as promised, it is not "this isn't supported in Windows XP SP2 wait for the next software upgrade when we release the next product". I was up and running in minutes. While a tad cluttered, the software was functional and I didn't feel like it was sucking the life out of my system (no big tool bars, and as I hear advertising bars)
I have not experimented with the analog outputs on the card as I am using the digital output direct to my Sony STRDA3000ES AV Reciever (which uses digital s-master amps which are supposed to keep the signal digital up to the last minute). It is a nice pairing. Should my PC gain the ability to play DVD Audio or something I still have the ability to use the analog inputs using the sound cards DAC's which from my research appear to be higher end (someone who is into professional recording would be able to comment better on them).
The only downside I see to this card is the lack of a break out box or additional backplate to add additional connectivity. Myself personally, I didn't require the additional hookups but someoen who does recording may desire the additional plugs (this is where that Auzentech card would step in at this time)
Anyhow I look forward to enjoying this card and would recommend it to fellow Home theater buffs anyday.
Welcome to the forums
cough *creative* cough lol as rightly said above.. qft
but it was just so hard to resist... a friend of mine who is an audiophile did not like the issues he was getting with his x-fi and he sold it to me for £25 and so i bought it (keeping note that I never had a sound card in my 2 year old pc and just used the on board sound) and I was happy with the quality although I feel like somethings missing. My friend got a new maudio card, and imma get his xfi this monday.
I have been looking at the market for a new sound card, but the xfi never for once was on my list.. it was either the audigy 2 zs, some trust sound card... and i think this would have been the winner if I did not get my xfi. It works, looks nice, and performs according to the reviewer. So its more than enough to supply my needs.
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