I feel this review is a little nearsighted. It definitely covers the "now" factor, but is not looking to the future of gaming. Intel says they are targeting the hardcore gamer, and it looks to be exactly what they are doing.
Although AMD clearly has a foothold on performance, something I think a lot of people are overlooking is the bigger picture of gaming: multicore cpus and multithreaded games. Consider that all the next-genereation consoles have multi-core processors. This forces developers to build multi-threaded games. I believe the thinking form intel is that when multi-threaded games are the norm, and developers are comfortable working in that environment, we're going to see a whole lot more performance from the intel camp. They will be ready and waiting to throw more threads down than a wild sewing machine.
There is still a good chance that AMD will stomp all over them in that arena too, particularly if intel doens't get over their P4 architecture (completely), but only real-world tests will tell.
I for one, have been waiting for true multi-cpu, multi-threaded, multi-whatever games ever since I got my hands on a dual cpu system about 5 years ago. :D
Good review Tim, I am curious though, why are Intel bothering, with Yonah so near round the corner? From what I know of chip architecture, its damn expensive to get a new chip going, I know this is just, basicly, an updated dual core prescot, but still, why bother when we've got dual core dothan type CPU's going at about 2.2-2.4(from what I hear) coming within months, that will obviously be better processors for most of the CPU market?
Originally Posted by bigz We've used the same test system since our Athlon 64 X2 preview back in May - GeForce 7800 GT/GTX weren't released back then. I wanted to re-run everything with a new set of benchmarks that fit closer with what we use in our motherboard reviews, but I couldn't give as wide a perspective of performance on multiple CPUs on a new selection of benchmarks because of the lack of time.
I had 2 1/2 days to do this (p)review, which meant I had to be picky on what I did do. As I've said above, we've certainly not finished with Presler and we'll be doing more investigations into its performance in the next few weeks.
Ah ok, was thinking of the motherboard reviews as a reference as they've had 7800's in, I also presumed it was a review rather than a preview
Originally Posted by atomo I feel this review is a little nearsighted. It definitely covers the "now" factor, but is not looking to the future of gaming. Intel says they are targeting the hardcore gamer, and it looks to be exactly what they are doing.
Although AMD clearly has a foothold on performance, something I think a lot of people are overlooking is the bigger picture of gaming: multicore cpus and multithreaded games. Consider that all the next-genereation consoles have multi-core processors. This forces developers to build multi-threaded games. I believe the thinking form intel is that when multi-threaded games are the norm, and developers are comfortable working in that environment, we're going to see a whole lot more performance from the intel camp. They will be ready and waiting to throw more threads down than a wild sewing machine.
There is still a good chance that AMD will stomp all over them in that arena too, particularly if intel doens't get over their P4 architecture (completely), but only real-world tests will tell.
I for one, have been waiting for true multi-cpu, multi-threaded, multi-whatever games ever since I got my hands on a dual cpu system about 5 years ago. :D
Hi and welcome to the forums.
Thanks for stopping by to comment.
I do agree with what you're saying, which is why we've not finished looking at the performance of this (and other) Presler CPU(s). AMD has an announcement next month, and it would be suitable to start looking at things a little deeper at that time, or maybe after that review is published.
There's a lot to cover (as is stated during our results analysis) with respect to 'the future' and there's no doubt we'll be looking at it. The future is important to a lot of people here, because they can't keep dropping thousands of pounds on computer equipment everytime Intel/AMD/ATI/NVIDIA release something new. We'll attempt to answer these questions regarding the future as best we can when we continue investigating Intel's latest technology in the new year. :)
Not bad at all considering that it's roughly the same as the 3.2 Smithfield. I suppose the real gains come when the newer cores are made on the 65nm process. It'll be fab (sorry, that was such a terrible pun).
I'll be very interested to see what AMD come up with against Conroe et al. One thing is for sure - it's going to be a lot tighter than P4 vs. A64.
Originally Posted by specofdust Good review Tim, I am curious though, why are Intel bothering, with Yonah so near round the corner? From what I know of chip architecture, its damn expensive to get a new chip going, I know this is just, basicly, an updated dual core prescot, but still, why bother when we've got dual core dothan type CPU's going at about 2.2-2.4(from what I hear) coming within months, that will obviously be better processors for most of the CPU market?
My question in relation to yours pig>: Why would Intel direct they're marketing of gamer processor's here? The Pentium D 780 almost kicks everythings ass in games (especially when overclocked to competing processor speeds. The Yonah is a double Pentium D with a higher FSB, clock speed, quite possibly dual channel memory support, and in late 06' Intel is touting a 4mb on die cache (2mb per core).
What the fork Intel? Do you look at your own Benchmarks>!?
The Pentium Extreme Edition 840 ran at 3.2GHz, while the Pentium Extreme Edition 955 runs at a much more impressive 3.46GHz.
"Much"? I'm almost of the opinion 3.46 is a decidedly unimpressive speed for this core given how far it reportedly overclocks. :)
I imagine if there hadn't been a Conroe or whatever coming down the pipeline, they could have done a 3.73 version of this chip easily, but don't want to step on the toes of the new chip.
Or, to put it another way, there were 3.4GHz chips released on the 130nm process. That's now TWO generations ago, albeit not dual core, but you see where I'm coming from. If they expected even a 20% speed improvement per generation (which was the sort of thing everyone was bandying about back in 2001), we'd now be at 4.8GHz or so... (c.f. Cedar Mill overclocking?)
On the other other hand, 2*3.46 = 6.93 > 4.8 so if you're easily parallel you're winning.
Very true - the problem is keeping heat output levels within an acceptable range. Smithfield delivered a record-breaking (for the desktop) 130W TDP, and this hasn't improved on that - it's just achieved a higher speed with roughly the same output.
It might overclock very nicely on a high-end watercooling system, but obviously this isn't feasible easily, even if this chip is aimed at the gaming crowd. Overclocking it to 4.2GHz, assuming a voltage of 1.55V, would require over 200 watts at peak load. You can run a whole system off that!
The real benefits of this 65nm process are coming with Merom and Conroe in Q4 '06, and for that... can't wait :D
It's heat dissipation remains the same (TDP), but the power consumption has dropped considerably. Hitman, I think you're confusing TDP with power draw. TDP is the Thermal Design Power, not the power consumption.
Sorry if it wasn't clear in my post... I was referring to the thermal output in the first bit and the consumption in the second - rather contradictory, really.
The large TDP was, as far as I know, the most important factor limiting them from creating faster models of Smithfield; dissipating 125W on something the size of your thumbnail is asking a lot of a heatsink. The shrink has improved matters, with more cache, higher speeds and lower power consumption, yet the high levels of heat dissipation when compared to any AMD offerings still remain.
That having been said, they're going in the right direction now - kooking at those charts, it is impressive how they have managed to drop it. 170W for the 840 XE! And this is faster, too :)
Originally Posted by specofdust Good review Tim, I am curious though, why are Intel bothering, with Yonah so near round the corner? From what I know of chip architecture, its damn expensive to get a new chip going, I know this is just, basicly, an updated dual core prescot, but still, why bother when we've got dual core dothan type CPU's going at about 2.2-2.4(from what I hear) coming within months, that will obviously be better processors for most of the CPU market?
Yonah is a mobile/laptop based chip, its not intended as such for desktop machines..
Its still gonna suck at certain things as Dothan does atm but the 2 cores will make it a much much more useable CPU imo.
The motherboards lined up don't seem to shabby either, we should see some decent desktop boards out (afaik Asus are developing a Crossfire based board...) for the chips, making them a viable option for Desktop based systems...
Originally Posted by Highland3r Yonah is a mobile/laptop based chip, its not intended as such for desktop machines..
Its still gonna suck at certain things as Dothan does atm but the 2 cores will make it a much much more useable CPU imo.
The motherboards lined up don't seem to shabby either, we should see some decent desktop boards out (afaik Asus are developing a Crossfire based board...) for the chips, making them a viable option for Desktop based systems...
Great news, so the Yonah, if nothing else, will be intels route back into the game then. S'good to see things finally heating up :D
Originally Posted by Nature ASUS made an adapter for the Pentium D to be on 478 mobo's. I hope they do same for El Yonah.
Pentium M you mean? And no they won't 875/865 chipsets cant cope with DC CPU's afaik... There should be no need either as there should be desktop capable mobos... the chips also use DDR2 :)
im quite impressed with the new core(s), yes i know its expensive but i think people are now leaning towards multi-tasking, at the moment i cant game and encode, which is annoying but not a problem as i dont do much of it becuase im crap lol BUT back on topic.
Thats enough processing power to run everything on the market and probably at least another year or so into the future so surely having something that can do a few other things in the background is a goodsend. I know i have to leave my comp be when i do a thorough scan with avast (hmmmm lovely avast, *strokes icon*) and that bugs the hell out of me that i cant do much else apart from word process (which at the moment is ok becuase im doing so much work)
hmmm soz bit of a rant in the end but u get my drift....right? :D
Comments 26 to 44 of 44
Although AMD clearly has a foothold on performance, something I think a lot of people are overlooking is the bigger picture of gaming: multicore cpus and multithreaded games. Consider that all the next-genereation consoles have multi-core processors. This forces developers to build multi-threaded games. I believe the thinking form intel is that when multi-threaded games are the norm, and developers are comfortable working in that environment, we're going to see a whole lot more performance from the intel camp. They will be ready and waiting to throw more threads down than a wild sewing machine.
There is still a good chance that AMD will stomp all over them in that arena too, particularly if intel doens't get over their P4 architecture (completely), but only real-world tests will tell.
I for one, have been waiting for true multi-cpu, multi-threaded, multi-whatever games ever since I got my hands on a dual cpu system about 5 years ago. :D
:)
Thanks for stopping by to comment.
I do agree with what you're saying, which is why we've not finished looking at the performance of this (and other) Presler CPU(s). AMD has an announcement next month, and it would be suitable to start looking at things a little deeper at that time, or maybe after that review is published.
There's a lot to cover (as is stated during our results analysis) with respect to 'the future' and there's no doubt we'll be looking at it. The future is important to a lot of people here, because they can't keep dropping thousands of pounds on computer equipment everytime Intel/AMD/ATI/NVIDIA release something new. We'll attempt to answer these questions regarding the future as best we can when we continue investigating Intel's latest technology in the new year. :)
I'll be very interested to see what AMD come up with against Conroe et al. One thing is for sure - it's going to be a lot tighter than P4 vs. A64.
My question in relation to yours pig>: Why would Intel direct they're marketing of gamer processor's here? The Pentium D 780 almost kicks everythings ass in games (especially when overclocked to competing processor speeds. The Yonah is a double Pentium D with a higher FSB, clock speed, quite possibly dual channel memory support, and in late 06' Intel is touting a 4mb on die cache (2mb per core).
What the fork Intel? Do you look at your own Benchmarks>!?
I imagine if there hadn't been a Conroe or whatever coming down the pipeline, they could have done a 3.73 version of this chip easily, but don't want to step on the toes of the new chip.
Or, to put it another way, there were 3.4GHz chips released on the 130nm process. That's now TWO generations ago, albeit not dual core, but you see where I'm coming from. If they expected even a 20% speed improvement per generation (which was the sort of thing everyone was bandying about back in 2001), we'd now be at 4.8GHz or so... (c.f. Cedar Mill overclocking?)
On the other other hand, 2*3.46 = 6.93 > 4.8 so if you're easily parallel you're winning.
It might overclock very nicely on a high-end watercooling system, but obviously this isn't feasible easily, even if this chip is aimed at the gaming crowd. Overclocking it to 4.2GHz, assuming a voltage of 1.55V, would require over 200 watts at peak load. You can run a whole system off that!
The real benefits of this 65nm process are coming with Merom and Conroe in Q4 '06, and for that... can't wait :D
Check here for some power consumption numbers - the text is a little confusing IMO, as they've mixed power consumption with heat dissipation (wasted heat/thermal output): http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/presler_8.html
The XE 955 consumes as much power as a single cored P4 XE 3.73GHz and less than the XE 840 and P4 670. :)
The large TDP was, as far as I know, the most important factor limiting them from creating faster models of Smithfield; dissipating 125W on something the size of your thumbnail is asking a lot of a heatsink. The shrink has improved matters, with more cache, higher speeds and lower power consumption, yet the high levels of heat dissipation when compared to any AMD offerings still remain.
That having been said, they're going in the right direction now - kooking at those charts, it is impressive how they have managed to drop it. 170W for the 840 XE! And this is faster, too :)
Yonah is a mobile/laptop based chip, its not intended as such for desktop machines..
Its still gonna suck at certain things as Dothan does atm but the 2 cores will make it a much much more useable CPU imo.
The motherboards lined up don't seem to shabby either, we should see some decent desktop boards out (afaik Asus are developing a Crossfire based board...) for the chips, making them a viable option for Desktop based systems...
Great news, so the Yonah, if nothing else, will be intels route back into the game then. S'good to see things finally heating up :D
Pentium M you mean? And no they won't 875/865 chipsets cant cope with DC CPU's afaik... There should be no need either as there should be desktop capable mobos... the chips also use DDR2 :)
Thats enough processing power to run everything on the market and probably at least another year or so into the future so surely having something that can do a few other things in the background is a goodsend. I know i have to leave my comp be when i do a thorough scan with avast (hmmmm lovely avast, *strokes icon*) and that bugs the hell out of me that i cant do much else apart from word process (which at the moment is ok becuase im doing so much work)
hmmm soz bit of a rant in the end but u get my drift....right? :D