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Dual-Layer DVD Duel

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Firehed 5th December 2005, 18:24 Quote
I'll keep twiddling my thumbs for a viable SATA option then. Oh well. At least I dumped having floppies a good three years ago, and using... ever since my first CD burner - the blazin' fast 4x uberdrive (about 20min for a full burn, with probably 40% success rates at $1.50 a disk, vs now ~2:30 99% 15c)

Probably time for my fourth DVD burner... I kinda broke my 16x DL drive when I decided I needed to open it to apply a carbon fibre skin. Shame... of course all my media is 8x, as is my other drive, so it doesn't do anything except waste the $40 I paid. Luckily I have no need at all for dual-layer burning as media is still too expensive to be useful... I'd rather wait for a DVD recode and use 30c media than get 1:1 (after killing off previews) and use much more expensive and slow-burning DL media.
geek1017 5th December 2005, 18:44 Quote
You'd still need a PATA drive to install Windows right?

Did this drive just recently make it to the UK? I think I've seen it on Newegg at least a month ago.

I await the day I can rid myself of all legacy devices. I just need to get around to Slipstreaming SATA drivers into windows or finally giving linux a good go.
Oh, and getting a PC to play on again would be nice as this laptop just isn't as fun.
Zach 5th December 2005, 18:50 Quote
i got the pioneer in black, best £30 i spent.
Tim S 5th December 2005, 18:52 Quote
you don't need SATA drivers on the newer motherboards - it can recognise them as PATA devices.
Kipman725 5th December 2005, 19:00 Quote
the only sata capable mobo I have fiddled with has been the DFI sli-d lan party and it only needed drivers for sata if you were using RAID.
LoneArchon 5th December 2005, 19:01 Quote
I still use a PS/2 mouse on my computer. I may as well use those port for my keyboard and mouse and free up 2 usb port for other uses. I only currently see one advantage to using the sata dvd burner and that is to have a cleaner inside by way of better wire mangement. But the price gap is to large for the lack of performace 118.99 for the plextor sata vs 49.99 for the pioneer pata(prices on newegg for retail versons).
MrWillyWonka 5th December 2005, 19:13 Quote
I have a dual layer slot loading DVD-RW drive, although it's IDE not sata, I can stay it rocks! It's fast and I like it.

How do you do the benchmarking? Because I want to see the speed increase over IDE.
user0001 5th December 2005, 19:22 Quote
I have the MSI SATA DVD/CD-RW and it pwns! Quiet, burns fast, reads fast, looks great!

At this point, although the cost of dual layer DVD-R drives has come down quite a bit, I still would think the most practical option would be for an external drive. I know most of us have more that one computer so why shell out $70-80 or so twice? Throw it in a nice external enclosure and take it whereever its needed!
I_Slider_I 5th December 2005, 21:30 Quote
Great review, nice and to the point and provided me with viable recomendations. Good job.
Firehed 5th December 2005, 21:35 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneArchon
I still use a PS/2 mouse on my computer. I may as well use those port for my keyboard and mouse and free up 2 usb port for other uses. I only currently see one advantage to using the sata dvd burner and that is to have a cleaner inside by way of better wire mangement. But the price gap is to large for the lack of performace 118.99 for the plextor sata vs 49.99 for the pioneer pata(prices on newegg for retail versons).
Agreed. If the backplate of my mobo was 10 USB ports, lan, audio and maybe firewire (I never use it, but just in case), I'd ditch my PS/2 keyboard. I had been using my USB>PS/2 adaptor on my mouse as well just to save the port, but it kept falling off so I just sucked up the loss of port.

Yeah, NF4 supports 10 ports. Four are on the back. Most cases support two on the front; as I'm set up I have none. Two for internal misc stuff, plus another two on a PCI filler bracket, so I have six readily available, two effectively unusable (unless I dig up another PCI plate set). And they fill up quick enough.

Anyways, same. I'd like the neatness of SATA for my optical, but the price difference just doesn't warrant it yet.
Sim0n 5th December 2005, 22:02 Quote
Ive had the very plextor listed here atleast 4 months now.
Never made any coasters with it.. its quiet, and just nice.
It replaced my samsung DVD-DL drive in my shuttle 95, and its made it look so much tider without the PATA cable in there.

As you ask in the article, WHY ISNT THERE MORE SUPPORT FOR SATA !!

Regarding USB, i only use a single port on my computer, which feeds into a USB hub screwed under the desk.. why ? i hate seeing 100 wires coming out the back of my computer, when i can hide them away where they dont need to be seen.
thecrownles 6th December 2005, 01:31 Quote
maybe we can all finally throw away our floppy drives once the windows devs get off their fat arses and actually add support for driver CDs on startup instead of needing floppies for RAID drivers. Anyone with RAID can tell you why we currently cannot leave our floppy drives out of the equation.

Maybe in Windows Vista.... :(
Sandman111 6th December 2005, 04:16 Quote
Informative, but the article left out the most important part of disc burning - output quality. Burning DVD's is one area where it's not always best to be fast, since burn quality directly affects the usable lifetime of the disc.

Also, which brand and manufacturer of media did you use? That can greatly affect read/write performance, depending on each drive's media table. Plus, some drives just "like" certain media manufacturers, so it's good info to have.

From what I've seen in my own experience, both burners should produce good burns, but it would have been useful to see a quality comparison in the review, along with the read/write times.
Nature 6th December 2005, 04:51 Quote
I actually bought that Plextor drive 8 months ago from newegg @ 146.99. The 8mb Cache really had me sold compared to the average 2mb which all other drives have.

Even though I wish I'd seen this article 8 months ago I'm still exceptionally pleased with the quality of this drive. I can't count how many cds/dvds I've burnt and REALLY, not a single coaster. Plextor is great when it comes to their standards. I don't mind waiting a bit longer to have a media disc thats solid.
Zidane 6th December 2005, 09:40 Quote
nice article, i had never actually considered optical media on sata. whilst im still a big pata fan (im too cheap to buy a new mobo just for sata), i can see its the way things are moving. maybe next upgrade i'll consider one, especially considering Nature informs us all its an 8mb cache.... im sure im not the only one who often sits watching his optical drives read whispering c'moooooooon....
valium 6th December 2005, 09:48 Quote
I'm ordering 2 of them, would be nice to get rid of the bulky PATA cables and go with something a little bit sexier, and the performance is a perk as well.
Solid_Puffs 6th December 2005, 10:27 Quote
Why wasn't the NEC 3540A taken into the equasion!?
Hamish 6th December 2005, 11:30 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecrownles
maybe we can all finally throw away our floppy drives once the windows devs get off their fat arses and actually add support for driver CDs on startup instead of needing floppies for RAID drivers. Anyone with RAID can tell you why we currently cannot leave our floppy drives out of the equation.

Maybe in Windows Vista.... :(
vista can even do it off usb thumbdrives B)

i want a black, slot-loading, sata, 16x dual layer dvd-rw :p
wolff000 6th December 2005, 16:31 Quote
i have the plextor 716sa and it works great speed is just fine for me. i was really shocked that it did so poorly in the review. cnet rated this drive pretty high which is one of the reasons i got it in the first place. that and i was getting rid of those big fat ugly ribbon cables. my case is now ide free and looking clean. this drive may have bombed in the review but i love it i have had only 2 bad burns and that was using cheapo dvds like 20 cents each (i buy them in bulk). i have also really put this burner thourgh the ringer and it never complains. i prolly burn 2 to 6 cds a day depending on my work load. just my 2 cents.
erzug 6th December 2005, 17:59 Quote
I agree that a quality test should have been provided. I, personally don't care as much about pure speed, but am concerned with whether the final burn is decent and compatible with other hardware, etc.
Also, no mention as to what the firmware versions were for the drives tested.
Should one assme the most current "DVR110D_FW137EU" for Pioneer and "1.09" for the Plextor?
jezmck 6th December 2005, 22:32 Quote
Quote:
Does anyone still use a PS2 mouse?

Yup.
I have 6 USB ports (not too shoddy) and have:
2 webcams
1 digi-camera
1 printer-scanner(-copier)
1 (gap for) USB stick

and hence I couldn't have a USB mouse & kb.
In fact, I run the mouse through a USB-PS2 adaptor.
Dgephri 6th December 2005, 22:49 Quote
I started legacy free with the Plextor 712S, about a year ago...never looked back. OS installed with it, never a coaster, and probably the quietest Optical I've ever used.

I am ordering a 716 for my upcoming build since Fry's has stopped stocking the 712S.

I decided long ago that I didn't want any floppy or IDE cables anymore: now if we could just get rid of the fat 24pin PSU connections.
NewWorldMan 6th December 2005, 23:20 Quote
Obviously the reviewer did not enable the Plextor to go over "spec" in PlexTools.

I had both drives in my computer to evaluate them and it wasn't even close..Plextor won by a wide margin.

So many users are confused that MaximumPC Mag even published an article on how to enable it in the November 2005 issue (page 62 lower). There is a check box for "SpeedRead CD/DVD" that needs to be enabled.

My recommendation for all reviewers- call the manufacturer next time before publishing a damning review of a highly reviewed and regarded product.
yyrkoon 7th December 2005, 06:32 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firehed
I'll keep twiddling my thumbs for a viable SATA option then. Oh well. At least I dumped having floppies a good three years ago, and using... ever since my first CD burner - the blazin' fast 4x uberdrive (about 20min for a full burn, with probably 40% success rates at $1.50 a disk, vs now ~2:30 99% 15c)

Probably time for my fourth DVD burner... I kinda broke my 16x DL drive when I decided I needed to open it to apply a carbon fibre skin. Shame... of course all my media is 8x, as is my other drive, so it doesn't do anything except waste the $40 I paid. Luckily I have no need at all for dual-layer burning as media is still too expensive to be useful... I'd rather wait for a DVD recode and use 30c media than get 1:1 (after killing off previews) and use much more expensive and slow-burning DL media.

You actually have two options for using a SATA burner

1) twiddle your thumbs as stated by yourself above, or . . .
2) buy a SATA->PATA tailgate conversion board

#2 should work fine if all you're looking to do is free up the extra IO used by the PCI bus. Only problem is finding a tailgate device thats 'stable'. Some of them seem cheaply made, and get bad reviews, while others claim they are fine.

As for the article, IM curious how well the Plextor would stand up to my Lite-On SOHW-1693S ;) Pretty solid drive for 60 ish USD, definatly MUCH better than the MSI DVD burner i had previously (still finding bad DVDs in my collection, that supposedly burned 'fine')
WilHarris 7th December 2005, 11:00 Quote
Quote:
My recommendation for all reviewers- call the manufacturer next time before publishing a damning review of a highly reviewed and regarded product.

Thanks for the feedback NewWorldMan. In our opinion, having to enable a tool to allow the drive to burn 'out of spec', as you put it, isn't going to be the most user-friendly and/or reliable burner. We'll investigate the tool, but it rather seems like asking all Nvidia users to switch on CoolBits by default to get optimum performance.
Quote:
I agree that a quality test should have been provided. I, personally don't care as much about pure speed, but am concerned with whether the final burn is decent and compatible with other hardware, etc.

erzug, that's cool, we'll bare that in mind for next time - you're right, copmatibility post-burn is a big issue that we didn't address.
Quote:
Also, which brand and manufacturer of media did you use? That can greatly affect read/write performance, depending on each drive's media table. Plus, some drives just "like" certain media manufacturers, so it's good info to have.

We mentioned in the article that we used Verbatim media (there's some piccies too!), SandMan111.

Thanks for the constructive feedback guys. This was really the first burner test we've done on bit-tech, and I think we can make the next one even better.

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