Okay.. I've got a few "beefs" with the article, and a few things that just seem to be flat-out wrong.
First: hardware requirements being high... I call bullshit. I'm running MCE2005 on an xp2500+ and 768MB of ram, A Geforce FX5700LE, and 4x250GB running off an Adaptec 2410SA to a 750GB raid array, on an NF7-S mobo using the soundstorm in and out. Nice, yeah. High, no. She runs like a champ, no stuttering, no performance issues at all.
Second: I've got 3 Emuzed Maui III capture cards running in this box, purchased from ebay. I'm able to handle 3 simultaneous records while watching previously recorded TV w\o issue. I can also do 2 records while watching 1 live TV (football,mmm...) again, w\o issue.
I can play back WMVHD w\ no stutters. Nothing is overclocked.
It seems living room pcs are becoming more popular, even to the general public - i sold this one with a 37" lcd to a bloke (who knew nothing about pcs whatsoever) on sunday (i particularly like they keyboard, which has a mouse trackball built in the right hand side and the mouse buttons on the left)
@JonDixon,
I wrote a reply earlier, and unfortunately the website was down...but it was in reference to the earlier post on Epias. They DO make nice HTPC, as long as you're using a caputure card with both encoding AND decoding, such as the Hauppage 250. This takes tremendous strain off of the processor, and epias appreciate the breathing room. However, a 250 is far from an impossible-to-find item, making epias a viable option. They are silent, and for current requirements work quite nicely. Actually, they just recently released 1.2ghz models, which helps.
@starbuck, keep reading...more of this will apply as I go. :) in reference to your three tuners, though, I have heard of MCE working with up to 4, but the only thing I've found documented is 2, and apparently Wil read similarly. Glad to hear you got more running without problems, though. Did that require extra software?
@everyone who says "this system is absolutely gratuitous excess and is bull****!":
This is a spewing of thought, so please bear that in mind...thoughts aren't well formed at this hour. :)
As stated earlier in the thread, HTPCs can be built with one of a few goals in mind...the major ones are cheap, or powerful. The cheap works just fine for modern systems, and no one is arguing that point. For current technology, there are some great software options. Aware of this, we are working on reviews for these. Some of them don't require such high system specs, which is evidenced by quite a few of the posts in this thread. We are aware of this also, but we ask you to bear with us and read into the intent of the article...
We are on the brink of a whole new set of OSs, including MCE06 and Vista. Now, anyone who is looking to get into an HTPC at this point, who is researching it from now, will be looking at MCE06, Linux, or Vista. Vista will be a while in the making, but MCE06 is coming around the corner. If you're looking at building just now, you don't want to re-upgrade in a year. And when things go to all digital or all HD broadcast, you don't want to have to buy more than you need...that means your cheapest option would be buying only new capture cards.
Because of that, we're looking at bringing you a system that can handle whatever you WILL throw at it. MCE06 has higher requirements than MCE05 did, along with a few (hopefully functional) improvements. Also, as more people come into HTPC, substituting that for a console system will become more of a priority...that means the system has to be able to run decent games at a decent resolution.
We have chosen this system based on the idea that if it runs all of these goals, by its nature it can run lower programs. This system will run MCE06 (easily), while watching TV, burning a DVD, and recording video. So, is it higher than one NEEDS for an HTPC at this moment? Absolutely. Is it a bit more beef than the system that I currently play my games on? Yep. But, it's a realistic expectation of where we plan to go with this section, and where we think HTPCs are headed.
So before you knock us for not having a clue at how cheaply you can build an HTPC, and shame us for over-speccing, give us a couple months to show you where we're going. Some of it you'll have seen before, but some of it we don't think you have yet. Because you're going to see us doing some things that will hopefully expand the way most people think about a computer kicking it in their living room, and maybe other places. And I hope you won't be disappointed.
(He is going to be writing much of the new HTPC content on the site. Hence the 'we', if you were wondering!)
If you read through thoroughly, I've mentioned things like you can run on a Celeron or a Sempron. I specifically put that in there. I've told you what I've chosen and what I think is best, but I've also listed the reasoning and the thoughts behind the hardware choices so that you can make them yourself.
Starbuck... great that you're running HD on your system. But with a 5700 you're not getting PureVideo, and I think that's a great thing to have. You're doing it with a 2500+ - awesome, but Microsoft do recommend 3GHz, and I have seen systems under 3GHz struggle.
Read the article again and see if it says anywhere that you 'must' have something, or instead if it gives you reasons and invites you to make your own choices.
The major exclusion from that article was Epia. I do intent to write a separate article on Epia, based on the fact it's such a unique case.
Fair enough mrhaz, I do like the fact that you've got an eye towards the future. My barton is actually a mobile part which I'm running for silence's sake. I suspect that if MCE06 bogs the machine, I'll just loose some silence and overclock it to a 3200+ or higher if I throw watercooling on it.
As for the 3 tuner cards, no additional software needed, just install the MCE drivers (I forget where I got them, I think emuzes' new site had them for the gateway XP MCE machine for which these cards were originally intended. The Maui does do hardware MPEG2 compression, but I'm not so sure about the decompression part. The T2 WMVHD is the only HD I've thrown at it. The FX5700LE was a 'freebie' if you will, I just kinda had it laying around. I can see going to an AGP based gefarce-6600 in the near future if need be. Terrestrial HD reception is non existent where I live, and I refuse to pay the exorbitant amount for HD cable... that and I don't have an HDTV set... just my regular 32" TV and an XGA DLP projector on occaison.
One of the points to cover in future articles would be how to silence higher spec kit for specific living room use. If you check out some of the AV forums, you'll see a lot of complaints in regards a number of new model plasma and lcd's which seem to have loud fans inside them.
Now if the fan noise from the plasma is annoying (and is leading to returns), imagine what sort of noise your HSF on your AMD64 plus the noise from your nVidia 7800.
My concern with this convergence of technologies, is you'll end up with something that technically can handle everything, but does not meet its real world use.
Having kit which can play Half Life 2 at full detail in the living room is great, and at that point I'd except some noise for cooling, but when all I'm doing is watching TV or playing a divx movie the last thing most people will want to hear is the whirring of fans.
Also looking at future articles, it would be great to cover the linux possibilities, especially as some now can use the MS remote. I have started to become tempted by MythTV as its free and records TV into a standard mpeg file rather than windows own file format.
Also as mentioned, you're looking at people replacing from also having a console. NOw you could cover the mame plugin for MCE, but maybe you can discover if games makers are going to support it. For MCE to become a dominant system in the living room, it will have to allow games to be run through it.
It would be great in MCE if it had a 'My Games' folder which would then show the icons of the games you've got installed. Its not going to work if you get the same mess you get in XP with each game wanting to add its company name as a folder before you get into the game subfolder.
Having kit which can play Half Life 2 at full detail in the living room is great, and at that point I'd except some noise for cooling, but when all I'm doing is watching TV or playing a divx movie the last thing most people will want to hear is the whirring of fans.
fortunately with stuff like Cool n quiet you can have your cpu and gfx clock down and reduce fan speed when not under load like a laptop does :D
We will very much be looking into silencing the rig, and will go over the best possibilities for this. First of all, my wife is a silence freak. If it's too noisy, she'd be returning it. So you can bet that it'll be part of my reviews, along with some other things. I don't want to give too much away just yet, but it sounds like you won't be disappointed with where we're taking things.
Oh, and as for linux? All I'll say is, you've already got your wish. :)
ohhh.... dont trust msi guys...
they suck, imo
back at i22 or i21, we (micrologic) got our hands on a 6800 ultra (something that no1 had that time) and it was poor. the plastic cut out for the gfx fan housing/ casing wasnt 100% cut properly so it didnt let the fan spin at all, so u no, i neva checked 2 c if it was working (y wud u, wen it was brand new) and after a while (of it being benchmarked), though id jus check on it, see how fast it was spinning coz it was really quiet, when i looked at it, it wasnt spinning.
so i S**T my load, switched off the pc, burnt my hands taking it out and touched the plastic and it was sooo soft that i left my finger print on it. good thing we had 2x120mm fans on display, worked out nice cooling down the gfx :)
oh and not to forget the 3rd msi 845pe board that im on now atm... all m/b's blown (no vis display after 9 months-ish)
so msi = bg
Originally Posted by Da Dego manvadher, though that post has a lot of very interesting information in it, I had to read it 4 times to translate all that. :)
re-read it and made some changes... this is the reason y i dont post much ;)
except to watch a movie. That I already do with cabling on my system which is a very modest system - a DELL 2400 Dimension w/384 memory - a TV Card with built-in MPEG2 Chip - and a onboard i845 Chip.
I am thinking this Media Center thing is for folks not married - as my wife does not care about Computers - does not want to learn computers - and only lives to watch her Soap Operas on TV.
If I made my TV so it could handle the PC - which I can do now as I have a Scan Converter - the wife would revolt. Baseball and American Football is enough she would say - the computer needs to leave our TV alone.
Yes she likes me recording things - but she will not tolerate me surfing the Net on the TV.
Beyond that - Media Center PC is an interesting concept - but Microsoft came to the table too late to be a serious player. Check out www.intervideo.com for their version of a media center pc that uses any tv-card they support.
I have a fondness for intervideo I must admit as it was bundled with my TV-card eons ago - and now they are fighting against Microsoft. Wonderful.
Microsoft does nothing well - they are a bundler of software packages. As an OS it is great - but for specific roles - why tell new folks how to create a Microsoft Media Center using bundled software from 3rd party sources that leave a sour taste in folks mouths when compared to a lean and mean system available off the shelf with just a bit of instruction? And running XP Pro as the base!!
Best let you go - but you are way off target in giving people good info on this.
Bubbacola, thanks for the input. I do hope you'll stick around and read a bit more, as I do promise to review each system that's widely available. It WOULD, however, be great if people could read the entire thread along with the article before telling us we're all wet.
It has been stated that we are reviewing multiple software systems, and that building to media center was chosen for a couple of reasons:
1) Media Center is, like it or not, going to probably be the evolution of HTPC, and
2) Media Center has by far the most stringent system requirements.
So, again, thanks for your input, but I don't necessarily feel off-base for letting people know what we feel they'll need to be able to run EACH of the software suites available to them, and let them decide on which one is best. With our reviews, the other software from Intervideo and others (as I've said above) will be brought to light for their own benefits and weaknesses. I hope you will not have decided before that even happens that we're microsoft pushers and are quite bent on miseducating our readers (who would see through that in a second if we did try). But honestly, just because it's from MS doesn't make it a bad product. To your argument that they never do well combining things, I propose that all an OS is is a way to make a bunch of hardware talk to each other and provide a combined interface that a user can interact with...by nature, you acknowledge their specialty is combining things.
By the way, since MCE2006 isn't released yet, I'm curious as to why you're so sure it's already going to be worse than your chosen product? To me, that in itself seems a little biased and "off target."
A Bachelor wants to impress a girl - so he shows off his impressive Tape System - a Dolby Digital System using Metal Oxide Tape for superior sound - He gives a cursory review to the girl and asks her to use the remote to change the channel as he goes to prepare the wine glasses. When he comes back - the girl cannot figure out one thing on the remote and looks befuddled.
Boy loses girl by being "too cool"
It has happened to me. Maybe all the folks here have top quality down and dirty friends who are just as into it for computers as you are - if so good luck.
Most folks have friends of the opposite sex (I include females who are good techno who have male friends - and I suppose I also mean friends of same sex - but marriage is a religious institution not defined by law until recently (within the last 100 years - and only very recently to include same sex - though 6,000 years old Biblically) so I give deference to all) and one person will try to impress the other with their knowledge.
They will end up looking like a Geek. My wife told me if I had not known how to make a good spaghetti dinner - she would have walked out the door with the Dolby thing. But some wine - etc. - We now have five kids.
I am just thinking it is a Playboy Lifestyle thing that will put folks who know how to use computers at a disadvantage when seeking partners - and I mean it.
By the way, since MCE2006 isn't released yet, I'm curious as to why you're so sure it's already going to be worse than your chosen product? To me, that in itself seems a little biased and "off target."
Not sure how to use quotes yet as I just started - so I used cut & paste.
Microsoft has a history of running the show. It eventually absorbs software it likes and then it becomes viable when fully Microsoft. Right now Microsoft is not in charge and is trying to rein in folks not on the Microsoft Team. This spells disaster for Microsoft because Microsoft is the Boss and not a Team Player.
I go back to the OS2 split with IBM and I just know Microsoft will turn out an inferior product until they own the show. It is just Microsoft history.
My wife is very similar to yours by the sound of it. Technologically "literate," but not exactly any sort of lover of something that does not make her life any easier than it was before. So if it makes our TV (we only have 1) more difficult to use, I assure you that first, I'll hear about it. Second, YOU'LL hear about it in my review. :) Because if I'm getting yelled at for it, it doesn't do what it needs to do. That is for all things, including MCE.
I'm not saying that MCE will be the best, and neither was Wil. We are putting together a system, though, that will allow readers to choose the system to their liking. After all, say MCE06 comes out and does a whole bunch of great features? Maybe it won't, but maybe they improve the interface beyond what it already is...then people go and look to buy a system based on our "hardware for an HTPC" article. And promptly find out that it can't run MCE06, their chosen OS, which they have decided looks the best for themselves and their family.
Now, as for the rest of it, since you're new here I'll cut a little slack from my normal rants (which is pretty heavy most of the time). Oh, and since I haven't had a chance to say it (and before you read on and get mad at me), welcome to the Forums. :)
The one thing you have to give MS is that they make a pretty idiot-proof setup. So railing against an entirely integrated solution, made for people who don't want to fiddle with 15 programs, seems counterproductive.
And any HTPC equipment will make you look like a "geek." Yeesh, the site has entire sections devoted to modding, where people genuinely tear apart a computer case and paint over it, put water in it, UV lights, etc. Around here, we scream geek, and we like it.
I really do wish you would just let us write a couple of the reviews before hurling all of these "You're going to make everyone look geeky, and I feel sorry for everyone who follows your systems..." Almost all of your points so far were explained in previous posts between myself and Wil...If you give us a chance to get going on the content, maybe we can ease your concerns a bit. As for the software complaints, wait until the review...we have not claimed this to be a review of MCE05 or how it owns everything else, in fact it is expressly stated that it ISN'T one. When the review of MCE06 comes out, there's your place to issue a grievance on MCE. :)
And your patience is wonderful beyond extreme. The wonderful thoughts I hear at this site - gosh.
The tutorial was wonderful and expressed with full thought by Da Diego.
Da Diego gives me honor by talking to me. I would hope forever I could talk to him - even though the only time I won a City-wide Ribbon in Science was when I wa in fifth grade.
At 50 years now with leisure I enjoy this spot. Sorry.
Ahh, I like you already (and knew you'd get mad at that...see why my original welcome was earlier?). :) But seriously, might want to cut out the religion part of the sarcasm...everything else on there is tit-for-tat, but that may offend some people, and I'm sure you don't mean to give off the wrong impression.
Look, I understand your basic argument, and I'm trying to tell you that I don't wholly disagree with it. But there will be more and better opportunities to express it as we review the software you seem to hate so much. You're jumping the gun, and calling us idiots for words you're putting in our mouths. I don't understand why that's so wrong, to ask you to wait until the product is reviewed before thinking we're stupid for saying it's fantastic. I really don't want to start this whole feature-set by getting in an argument over a position I haven't even taken yet, and may never even adopt. :)
I do apologize if you don't like MCE, HTPC, or myself personally. But seriously, there are better, more eloquent ways to phrase your points than "You'll make everyone look like geeks, who will have a hard time attracting the opposite sex...because women as a whole are too stupid to understand it." And, no matter my difference of opinion with you, welcome to the forums, and I hope you stick around to espouse your views when we review the software, so you can tell me how I'm all wet with some level of relevance. And by the way, Wil wrote this particular article, so it's not my instruction you received very well.
And I'm sure your mommy is vewy vewy proud of your ribbon. :D
Course I will remove the Bookmark within Firefox and destroy the email granting access to the group and this group will cease to exist for me as I will not remember in a few days the name.
Do I quit because you answered and defended your position? Never. A spirited debate upon the merits of a Media Center is welcome. And yes indeed, it is a Geek Thing to put a computer in the front room - no matter how sleek and shiny the box - females will get turned off in droves by it. So if playing Half-Life important in the front room instead of playing spin the bottle - then by all means enjoy - might as well sign up for VirtuallyJenna, because action in the front room will be limited to the box.
No I quit because I am a Christian. Muslims, Jews, Hindu, are never offended when I say I am a Christian as they hold their faith on their sleeve - no, it is usually those who are Chrisitian - or at least profess that they have knowledge of God in the traditional Western realm, who are offended.
Luckily I am an American - where religion still finds itself in Daily Life exhibited by our Politicians as well as the folks. Religion remains a vibrant part of our lifestyle - and every chance I get attendance with others is required. Course it also keeps me away from the computer!! But I have learned how to get by on four hours sleep a day - so I can squeeze everything in.
...And yes indeed, it is a Geek Thing to put a computer in the front room - no matter how sleek and shiny the box - females will get turned off in droves by it. So if playing Half-Life important in the front room instead of playing spin the bottle - then by all means enjoy - might as well sign up for VirtuallyJenna, because action in the front room will be limited to the box...
Thats actually really sexist. What about the "females" that are "geeks"? They do exist you know, we have a few on this forum, and trust me, they are are as hot as any "omg a remote control!!!" types that you stereotype as being the norm. We are all entitled to opinions, but think about the wild claims you make... Spin the bottle? please, this isn't scout camp. an intelligent woman will be challenged by your abilities, charm and wit regardless if you have a PC in your living room or not.
Media PCs are so easy to control nowadays that the only geeky part is building them, heck, you can even have an LCD remote with "MUSIC ON" in big, bold, inch high, dayglo letters if the type of woman you bring home cant deal with an intuitative well designed media centre GUI.
Originally Posted by bubbacola2000 No I quit because I am a Christian. Muslims, Jews, Hindu, are never offended when I say I am a Christian as they hold their faith on their sleeve - no, it is usually those who are Chrisitian - or at least profess that they have knowledge of God in the traditional Western realm, who are offended.
Luckily I am an American - where religion still finds itself in Daily Life exhibited by our Politicians as well as the folks. Religion remains a vibrant part of our lifestyle - and every chance I get attendance with others is required. Course it also keeps me away from the computer!! But I have learned how to get by on four hours sleep a day - so I can squeeze everything in.
:( I tried to ask nicely...at least, I'm pretty sure I did. This post will now be flagged.
This is a forum (and a site) for discussing computers, hardware, software, and the like...therefore, there is little to no need to bring religion into most of the discussions. Religion is something that is very personal to each reader, and I don't fancy others having to read something that even I consider inflammatory (and I have a fairly mid-to-high boiling point), and thinking of it as a representation of BT. This forum contains active members worldwide, encompassing multiple religions and multiple views on each. If being asked to respect that offends you, dear sir, I kindly point you to the "Back" button on your browser.
And Fly, I agree totally. My wife read his comment and was infuriated at how someone could honestly just assume that all women were that stupid. Perhaps we should see if Kitt or Hex or one of our other "females" agrees with his viewpoint? Heck, I have 4 PCs around my house (one of them HTPC), and somehow I managed to still get married. Amazing, ain't it?
I was just reading through the article again, and noticed that the Shuttle system you list (SD31P) doesn't actually have any PCI slots. It has PCI express x16 and x1 but no 'old fashioned' PCI slots. Isn't this going to make it a little tricky to plug in a TV tuner?
Yes, there are USB boxes, but surely one of the aims is to get rid of the clutter and replace it with a single box.
In my search for a DVB-T With conax support i come across a site in sweden with a very genuis system for DVB-C, DVB-S and DVB-T. It is called the FireDTV/floppy
It has support for "almost" all Media center software like:
Media portal, Showdhifter, GB-PVR, TV central, Mytheater and MCE2005
They are still working on a good DBA for MCE but they are getting there.
Comments 26 to 50 of 60
First: hardware requirements being high... I call bullshit. I'm running MCE2005 on an xp2500+ and 768MB of ram, A Geforce FX5700LE, and 4x250GB running off an Adaptec 2410SA to a 750GB raid array, on an NF7-S mobo using the soundstorm in and out. Nice, yeah. High, no. She runs like a champ, no stuttering, no performance issues at all.
Second: I've got 3 Emuzed Maui III capture cards running in this box, purchased from ebay. I'm able to handle 3 simultaneous records while watching previously recorded TV w\o issue. I can also do 2 records while watching 1 live TV (football,mmm...) again, w\o issue.
I can play back WMVHD w\ no stutters. Nothing is overclocked.
@JonDixon,
I wrote a reply earlier, and unfortunately the website was down...but it was in reference to the earlier post on Epias. They DO make nice HTPC, as long as you're using a caputure card with both encoding AND decoding, such as the Hauppage 250. This takes tremendous strain off of the processor, and epias appreciate the breathing room. However, a 250 is far from an impossible-to-find item, making epias a viable option. They are silent, and for current requirements work quite nicely. Actually, they just recently released 1.2ghz models, which helps.
@starbuck, keep reading...more of this will apply as I go. :) in reference to your three tuners, though, I have heard of MCE working with up to 4, but the only thing I've found documented is 2, and apparently Wil read similarly. Glad to hear you got more running without problems, though. Did that require extra software?
@everyone who says "this system is absolutely gratuitous excess and is bull****!":
This is a spewing of thought, so please bear that in mind...thoughts aren't well formed at this hour. :)
As stated earlier in the thread, HTPCs can be built with one of a few goals in mind...the major ones are cheap, or powerful. The cheap works just fine for modern systems, and no one is arguing that point. For current technology, there are some great software options. Aware of this, we are working on reviews for these. Some of them don't require such high system specs, which is evidenced by quite a few of the posts in this thread. We are aware of this also, but we ask you to bear with us and read into the intent of the article...
We are on the brink of a whole new set of OSs, including MCE06 and Vista. Now, anyone who is looking to get into an HTPC at this point, who is researching it from now, will be looking at MCE06, Linux, or Vista. Vista will be a while in the making, but MCE06 is coming around the corner. If you're looking at building just now, you don't want to re-upgrade in a year. And when things go to all digital or all HD broadcast, you don't want to have to buy more than you need...that means your cheapest option would be buying only new capture cards.
Because of that, we're looking at bringing you a system that can handle whatever you WILL throw at it. MCE06 has higher requirements than MCE05 did, along with a few (hopefully functional) improvements. Also, as more people come into HTPC, substituting that for a console system will become more of a priority...that means the system has to be able to run decent games at a decent resolution.
We have chosen this system based on the idea that if it runs all of these goals, by its nature it can run lower programs. This system will run MCE06 (easily), while watching TV, burning a DVD, and recording video. So, is it higher than one NEEDS for an HTPC at this moment? Absolutely. Is it a bit more beef than the system that I currently play my games on? Yep. But, it's a realistic expectation of where we plan to go with this section, and where we think HTPCs are headed.
So before you knock us for not having a clue at how cheaply you can build an HTPC, and shame us for over-speccing, give us a couple months to show you where we're going. Some of it you'll have seen before, but some of it we don't think you have yet. Because you're going to see us doing some things that will hopefully expand the way most people think about a computer kicking it in their living room, and maybe other places. And I hope you won't be disappointed.
(He is going to be writing much of the new HTPC content on the site. Hence the 'we', if you were wondering!)
If you read through thoroughly, I've mentioned things like you can run on a Celeron or a Sempron. I specifically put that in there. I've told you what I've chosen and what I think is best, but I've also listed the reasoning and the thoughts behind the hardware choices so that you can make them yourself.
Starbuck... great that you're running HD on your system. But with a 5700 you're not getting PureVideo, and I think that's a great thing to have. You're doing it with a 2500+ - awesome, but Microsoft do recommend 3GHz, and I have seen systems under 3GHz struggle.
Read the article again and see if it says anywhere that you 'must' have something, or instead if it gives you reasons and invites you to make your own choices.
The major exclusion from that article was Epia. I do intent to write a separate article on Epia, based on the fact it's such a unique case.
As for the 3 tuner cards, no additional software needed, just install the MCE drivers (I forget where I got them, I think emuzes' new site had them for the gateway XP MCE machine for which these cards were originally intended. The Maui does do hardware MPEG2 compression, but I'm not so sure about the decompression part. The T2 WMVHD is the only HD I've thrown at it. The FX5700LE was a 'freebie' if you will, I just kinda had it laying around. I can see going to an AGP based gefarce-6600 in the near future if need be. Terrestrial HD reception is non existent where I live, and I refuse to pay the exorbitant amount for HD cable... that and I don't have an HDTV set... just my regular 32" TV and an XGA DLP projector on occaison.
Now if the fan noise from the plasma is annoying (and is leading to returns), imagine what sort of noise your HSF on your AMD64 plus the noise from your nVidia 7800.
My concern with this convergence of technologies, is you'll end up with something that technically can handle everything, but does not meet its real world use.
Having kit which can play Half Life 2 at full detail in the living room is great, and at that point I'd except some noise for cooling, but when all I'm doing is watching TV or playing a divx movie the last thing most people will want to hear is the whirring of fans.
Also looking at future articles, it would be great to cover the linux possibilities, especially as some now can use the MS remote. I have started to become tempted by MythTV as its free and records TV into a standard mpeg file rather than windows own file format.
Also as mentioned, you're looking at people replacing from also having a console. NOw you could cover the mame plugin for MCE, but maybe you can discover if games makers are going to support it. For MCE to become a dominant system in the living room, it will have to allow games to be run through it.
It would be great in MCE if it had a 'My Games' folder which would then show the icons of the games you've got installed. Its not going to work if you get the same mess you get in XP with each game wanting to add its company name as a folder before you get into the game subfolder.
I definately look forward to the next article.
We will very much be looking into silencing the rig, and will go over the best possibilities for this. First of all, my wife is a silence freak. If it's too noisy, she'd be returning it. So you can bet that it'll be part of my reviews, along with some other things. I don't want to give too much away just yet, but it sounds like you won't be disappointed with where we're taking things.
Oh, and as for linux? All I'll say is, you've already got your wish. :)
I nearly took my ear off checking whether I could hear it or not when I first turned it on. :p
they suck, imo
back at i22 or i21, we (micrologic) got our hands on a 6800 ultra (something that no1 had that time) and it was poor. the plastic cut out for the gfx fan housing/ casing wasnt 100% cut properly so it didnt let the fan spin at all, so u no, i neva checked 2 c if it was working (y wud u, wen it was brand new) and after a while (of it being benchmarked), though id jus check on it, see how fast it was spinning coz it was really quiet, when i looked at it, it wasnt spinning.
so i S**T my load, switched off the pc, burnt my hands taking it out and touched the plastic and it was sooo soft that i left my finger print on it. good thing we had 2x120mm fans on display, worked out nice cooling down the gfx :)
oh and not to forget the 3rd msi 845pe board that im on now atm... all m/b's blown (no vis display after 9 months-ish)
so msi = bg
re-read it and made some changes... this is the reason y i dont post much ;)
I am thinking this Media Center thing is for folks not married - as my wife does not care about Computers - does not want to learn computers - and only lives to watch her Soap Operas on TV.
If I made my TV so it could handle the PC - which I can do now as I have a Scan Converter - the wife would revolt. Baseball and American Football is enough she would say - the computer needs to leave our TV alone.
Yes she likes me recording things - but she will not tolerate me surfing the Net on the TV.
Beyond that - Media Center PC is an interesting concept - but Microsoft came to the table too late to be a serious player. Check out www.intervideo.com for their version of a media center pc that uses any tv-card they support.
I have a fondness for intervideo I must admit as it was bundled with my TV-card eons ago - and now they are fighting against Microsoft. Wonderful.
Microsoft does nothing well - they are a bundler of software packages. As an OS it is great - but for specific roles - why tell new folks how to create a Microsoft Media Center using bundled software from 3rd party sources that leave a sour taste in folks mouths when compared to a lean and mean system available off the shelf with just a bit of instruction? And running XP Pro as the base!!
Best let you go - but you are way off target in giving people good info on this.
thanx.
It has been stated that we are reviewing multiple software systems, and that building to media center was chosen for a couple of reasons:
1) Media Center is, like it or not, going to probably be the evolution of HTPC, and
2) Media Center has by far the most stringent system requirements.
So, again, thanks for your input, but I don't necessarily feel off-base for letting people know what we feel they'll need to be able to run EACH of the software suites available to them, and let them decide on which one is best. With our reviews, the other software from Intervideo and others (as I've said above) will be brought to light for their own benefits and weaknesses. I hope you will not have decided before that even happens that we're microsoft pushers and are quite bent on miseducating our readers (who would see through that in a second if we did try). But honestly, just because it's from MS doesn't make it a bad product. To your argument that they never do well combining things, I propose that all an OS is is a way to make a bunch of hardware talk to each other and provide a combined interface that a user can interact with...by nature, you acknowledge their specialty is combining things.
By the way, since MCE2006 isn't released yet, I'm curious as to why you're so sure it's already going to be worse than your chosen product? To me, that in itself seems a little biased and "off target."
Boy loses girl by being "too cool"
It has happened to me. Maybe all the folks here have top quality down and dirty friends who are just as into it for computers as you are - if so good luck.
Most folks have friends of the opposite sex (I include females who are good techno who have male friends - and I suppose I also mean friends of same sex - but marriage is a religious institution not defined by law until recently (within the last 100 years - and only very recently to include same sex - though 6,000 years old Biblically) so I give deference to all) and one person will try to impress the other with their knowledge.
They will end up looking like a Geek. My wife told me if I had not known how to make a good spaghetti dinner - she would have walked out the door with the Dolby thing. But some wine - etc. - We now have five kids.
I am just thinking it is a Playboy Lifestyle thing that will put folks who know how to use computers at a disadvantage when seeking partners - and I mean it.
Just feel that way
Not sure how to use quotes yet as I just started - so I used cut & paste.
Microsoft has a history of running the show. It eventually absorbs software it likes and then it becomes viable when fully Microsoft. Right now Microsoft is not in charge and is trying to rein in folks not on the Microsoft Team. This spells disaster for Microsoft because Microsoft is the Boss and not a Team Player.
I go back to the OS2 split with IBM and I just know Microsoft will turn out an inferior product until they own the show. It is just Microsoft history.
thanks
My wife is very similar to yours by the sound of it. Technologically "literate," but not exactly any sort of lover of something that does not make her life any easier than it was before. So if it makes our TV (we only have 1) more difficult to use, I assure you that first, I'll hear about it. Second, YOU'LL hear about it in my review. :) Because if I'm getting yelled at for it, it doesn't do what it needs to do. That is for all things, including MCE.
I'm not saying that MCE will be the best, and neither was Wil. We are putting together a system, though, that will allow readers to choose the system to their liking. After all, say MCE06 comes out and does a whole bunch of great features? Maybe it won't, but maybe they improve the interface beyond what it already is...then people go and look to buy a system based on our "hardware for an HTPC" article. And promptly find out that it can't run MCE06, their chosen OS, which they have decided looks the best for themselves and their family.
Now, as for the rest of it, since you're new here I'll cut a little slack from my normal rants (which is pretty heavy most of the time). Oh, and since I haven't had a chance to say it (and before you read on and get mad at me), welcome to the Forums. :)
The one thing you have to give MS is that they make a pretty idiot-proof setup. So railing against an entirely integrated solution, made for people who don't want to fiddle with 15 programs, seems counterproductive.
And any HTPC equipment will make you look like a "geek." Yeesh, the site has entire sections devoted to modding, where people genuinely tear apart a computer case and paint over it, put water in it, UV lights, etc. Around here, we scream geek, and we like it.
I really do wish you would just let us write a couple of the reviews before hurling all of these "You're going to make everyone look geeky, and I feel sorry for everyone who follows your systems..." Almost all of your points so far were explained in previous posts between myself and Wil...If you give us a chance to get going on the content, maybe we can ease your concerns a bit. As for the software complaints, wait until the review...we have not claimed this to be a review of MCE05 or how it owns everything else, in fact it is expressly stated that it ISN'T one. When the review of MCE06 comes out, there's your place to issue a grievance on MCE. :)
The tutorial was wonderful and expressed with full thought by Da Diego.
Da Diego gives me honor by talking to me. I would hope forever I could talk to him - even though the only time I won a City-wide Ribbon in Science was when I wa in fifth grade.
At 50 years now with leisure I enjoy this spot. Sorry.
But I like to argue against if OK.
Mean nothing badly as a Christian
Look, I understand your basic argument, and I'm trying to tell you that I don't wholly disagree with it. But there will be more and better opportunities to express it as we review the software you seem to hate so much. You're jumping the gun, and calling us idiots for words you're putting in our mouths. I don't understand why that's so wrong, to ask you to wait until the product is reviewed before thinking we're stupid for saying it's fantastic. I really don't want to start this whole feature-set by getting in an argument over a position I haven't even taken yet, and may never even adopt. :)
I do apologize if you don't like MCE, HTPC, or myself personally. But seriously, there are better, more eloquent ways to phrase your points than "You'll make everyone look like geeks, who will have a hard time attracting the opposite sex...because women as a whole are too stupid to understand it." And, no matter my difference of opinion with you, welcome to the forums, and I hope you stick around to espouse your views when we review the software, so you can tell me how I'm all wet with some level of relevance. And by the way, Wil wrote this particular article, so it's not my instruction you received very well.
And I'm sure your mommy is vewy vewy proud of your ribbon. :D
Do I quit because you answered and defended your position? Never. A spirited debate upon the merits of a Media Center is welcome. And yes indeed, it is a Geek Thing to put a computer in the front room - no matter how sleek and shiny the box - females will get turned off in droves by it. So if playing Half-Life important in the front room instead of playing spin the bottle - then by all means enjoy - might as well sign up for VirtuallyJenna, because action in the front room will be limited to the box.
No I quit because I am a Christian. Muslims, Jews, Hindu, are never offended when I say I am a Christian as they hold their faith on their sleeve - no, it is usually those who are Chrisitian - or at least profess that they have knowledge of God in the traditional Western realm, who are offended.
Luckily I am an American - where religion still finds itself in Daily Life exhibited by our Politicians as well as the folks. Religion remains a vibrant part of our lifestyle - and every chance I get attendance with others is required. Course it also keeps me away from the computer!! But I have learned how to get by on four hours sleep a day - so I can squeeze everything in.
Bye - and may God Save the Queen and America!
Thats actually really sexist. What about the "females" that are "geeks"? They do exist you know, we have a few on this forum, and trust me, they are are as hot as any "omg a remote control!!!" types that you stereotype as being the norm. We are all entitled to opinions, but think about the wild claims you make... Spin the bottle? please, this isn't scout camp. an intelligent woman will be challenged by your abilities, charm and wit regardless if you have a PC in your living room or not.
Media PCs are so easy to control nowadays that the only geeky part is building them, heck, you can even have an LCD remote with "MUSIC ON" in big, bold, inch high, dayglo letters if the type of woman you bring home cant deal with an intuitative well designed media centre GUI.
This is a forum (and a site) for discussing computers, hardware, software, and the like...therefore, there is little to no need to bring religion into most of the discussions. Religion is something that is very personal to each reader, and I don't fancy others having to read something that even I consider inflammatory (and I have a fairly mid-to-high boiling point), and thinking of it as a representation of BT. This forum contains active members worldwide, encompassing multiple religions and multiple views on each. If being asked to respect that offends you, dear sir, I kindly point you to the "Back" button on your browser.
And Fly, I agree totally. My wife read his comment and was infuriated at how someone could honestly just assume that all women were that stupid. Perhaps we should see if Kitt or Hex or one of our other "females" agrees with his viewpoint? Heck, I have 4 PCs around my house (one of them HTPC), and somehow I managed to still get married. Amazing, ain't it?
Now, back ON TOPIC... :D
Yes, there are USB boxes, but surely one of the aims is to get rid of the clutter and replace it with a single box.
It has support for "almost" all Media center software like:
Media portal, Showdhifter, GB-PVR, TV central, Mytheater and MCE2005
They are still working on a good DBA for MCE but they are getting there.
Check it out @ http://www.digital-everywhere.com/cms/en/index.php