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PlayStation 4 Review

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AlienwareAndy 30th November 2013, 11:56 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulC2K
From the review:
"Just make sure you buy the physical versions. For reasons nobody can comprehend, prices on the PSN store are a good £5 to £15 higher."
Yeah, cos Steam, Origin, GreenManGaming (Digital content), GAME (as with GMG)... they're all cheaper than the retailers arent they!? Oh, no they're not.
Personally i find that a rather idiotic comment, we all know the reason why they're more expensive and thats because they want and need to keep the retailers on-side. Its the same reason GMG will sell you a DVD of a game for £30 and the digital version for £40. Its not by choice, but by necessity and almost certainly an un-written agreement from the developer not to p*** the retailers off because they need retailers happy with the deal because they advertise and generate hype which sells their games.

That's the precise reason I still have an optical drive fitted to my PC, and won't be removing it any time soon. Just recently I paid £24 on Amazon for BF4. Origin wanted £39.99 IIRC.

I'm not sure exactly why digital downloads are always (every single time) more expensive than physical media (that costs money to produce) but until these digital download providers can stop being so god damn greedy I'll be buying physical media. I also feel like I have something in hand to show for the money I spent, rather than just another name in a list.

The only time I buy games on download is when they're on sale, or as part of a Humblebundle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulC2K
As for PC's as a living room machine, yes theres definitely ways of getting around the handful of issues which put people off, but they're just not as user-friendly to a wide audience like consoles and some people just arent as tech-savy, you couldnt plonk a PC in a living room and expect a couple of 8-10 year olds with mates round to go through all the hassle, they'll be begging for a console within a week, regardless of the fact that the PC is the superior hardware and offers infinitely more possibilities than a console.
Theres absolutely no harm in accepting consoles are better gaming devices for a wide audience, its exactly what they're built for. PCs aren't, they're far more accomplished but at least until Steam's OS arrives, it doesnt offer the simplicity of *just* switching it on, picking a game, and playing it from the couch like a console does. IMO PC gaming is miles better, but that isnt what people are saying. Its about simplicity and doing the job its designed & purchased for.

I've barely touched my PS3 in a year (GTA5 is about it) yet im glued to my PC which sits a foot away from the PS3, but i'd have bought a PS4 in a heartbeat if there was a decent launch title, and i will buy one in about 6-9mo because they are excellent at what they do.

Yeah I can agree to that mostly. PC games can be a bloody bugger to get running. A few weeks back my lady had an issue with some indie game she bought on Steam. Something about sending in ambulances and fire engines ETC (a sim of some sort). Any way a quick Google and some ini hacking and she was up and running, but most would have just thought the game wouldn't run and not played it.

And it happens a lot with PC games. Just recently I felt like playing Mirror's Edge again. Then I found out it had issues with Physx so you had to go patch it on EA's site, but again none of this was automatic. It was all manual and took poking around the net to find the fix. Most would have just given up.

Then there's the Dirt (insert number here) bug. If you run it at a resolution the ini files store it and then if you try to run a different resolution it crashes to a black screen (if you change monitor or something). The fix? delete the INI, let it create a new one then open it with a text editor and set your new resolution manually.

But again, doesn't work automatically and again, requires time and effort put in.

All of these things are what stopped many people gaming on a PC, and with no change it's hard convincing them to come back.
Harlequin 30th November 2013, 12:10 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by ya93sin
Received my PS4 yesterday with Killzone, here are my first thoughts:

Pros:
Really small compared to what I expected.
Mostly high quality hardware ports.
HDMI cable included.
Routing all audio through the cable (I have the PS4 hooked up to my monitor which has no speakers, PC is also hooked up on DVI).
Sound quality is very good in my opinion.
The console renders things a lot better from what I see in Killzone, very smooth framerate for the most part.
Great controller.

Cons:
Gets hot.
Would have liked a headphone jack for my speaker system on the console itself.
Dust shows up really easily.
Maybe just me being poorly informed, but I wasn't expecting a £40 yearly charge to play online.
If they had put hardware ports at the bottom of the back, it would have saved some space. At the top of the back, this means cables jut out even more.
I really miss the start button, the replacement option button is sometimes difficult to press quickly, you often press the touchpad by accident.

Sony saw the XBL cash cow and wanted a piece of that pie - was also announced on launch . At least you get free games - XBL is now offering that as well.
rollo 30th November 2013, 12:26 Quote
Dont think sony had alot of choice in the matter, The cost of PSN services was rising and will continue to rise with the new ps4 launch. The £40 yearly fee bearly covers much of anything.

Xbox live fee does not make Microsoft money they have said as much themselves several times. They make the cash on virtual goods and stuff ( Music / games / Movies ect ) you buy from there store $1 billion + at last check last year.
Corky42 30th November 2013, 12:51 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlienwareAndy
but until these digital download providers can stop being so god damn greedy I'll be buying physical media.

The digital distribution platforms don't set the price, the publishers do that.
Although the digital distribution platforms typically take a 30% cut from each sale, so publishers probably increase their prices accordingly.
t5kcannon 30th November 2013, 18:36 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hustler
A definite purchase....just not yet.

Exactly what I feel too.
AlienwareAndy 1st December 2013, 11:24 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky42
The digital distribution platforms don't set the price, the publishers do that.
Although the digital distribution platforms typically take a 30% cut from each sale, so publishers probably increase their prices accordingly.

But the games that are usually expensive are published by the digital distributors.

IE - BF4 is really expensive on Origin. It is published by EA who run Origin.
Corky42 1st December 2013, 12:26 Quote
Well i don't know if the 30% cut taken from sales applies when the DD platform is selling the publishers own titles, but i would guess it does purely because they don't want to undercut other publishers and risk upsetting them.
law99 1st December 2013, 12:43 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlienwareAndy
PC games can be a bloody bugger to get running. A few weeks back my lady had an issue with some indie game she bought on Steam. Something about sending in ambulances and fire engines ETC (a sim of some sort). Any way a quick Google and some ini hacking and she was up and running, but most would have just thought the game wouldn't run and not played it.

And it happens a lot with PC games. Just recently I felt like playing Mirror's Edge again. Then I found out it had issues with Physx so you had to go patch it on EA's site, but again none of this was automatic. It was all manual and took poking around the net to find the fix. Most would have just given up.

Then there's the Dirt (insert number here) bug. If you run it at a resolution the ini files store it and then if you try to run a different resolution it crashes to a black screen (if you change monitor or something). The fix? delete the INI, let it create a new one then open it with a text editor and set your new resolution manually.

But again, doesn't work automatically and again, requires time and effort put in.

All of these things are what stopped many people gaming on a PC, and with no change it's hard convincing them to come back.

True. PC gaming is just nothing like console gaming - other than some of the games are available on both.

I'm playing Skyrim now with eyefinity and it took me best part of an hour to have it right. Rechoosing my mods (checking them also...), using the Flawless Widescreen app and all sorts ate into my time before I could actually play it.

If a feature like that was on the consoles you can be damn sure it would just work. Or everyone would cry about it until it was easier. Whereas PC gamers are just left to figure it out and put up with it.
defined 1st December 2013, 20:13 Quote
but isn't the tinkering part of what we enjoy as pc gamers?
SchizoFrog 2nd December 2013, 04:11 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by law99
I'm playing Skyrim now with eyefinity and it took me best part of an hour to have it right. Rechoosing my mods (checking them also...), using the Flawless Widescreen app and all sorts ate into my time before I could actually play it.

If a feature like that was on the consoles you can be damn sure it would just work. Or everyone would cry about it until it was easier. Whereas PC gamers are just left to figure it out and put up with it.

'IF', If a feature like that... That's one of the main points I don't understand about PC gamers complaining about using PCs to game in the front room. These features are not available on consoles, maybe one day but not now. Most PC games (every one I've played in the last 10 years) has an 'auto-detect' feature to test what hardware you have and to then set up the settings accordingly. Yes you can go in to the settings and fine tune them to get even better results but you don't have to and you can't do this on a console either.
I just find it strange to read so many complaints about the 'living room gaming experience' when using PCs from people who willingly spend £1000's on PC parts and spend months modding, customising or even fabricating scratch builds for their main PCs.
Cei 2nd December 2013, 06:34 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by defined
but isn't the tinkering part of what we enjoy as pc gamers?

Yes and no. I personally find 'tinkering' with settings to be hassle and an unenjoyable experience. PCs are great when everything works, and an absolute pain in the rear when they don't. I mean, searching the depths of the internet to find a patch/registry hack/workaround because something isn't working isn't exactly a good thing for anybody to be doing, and consoles offer a "plug and play" experience.
SchizoFrog 2nd December 2013, 06:48 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cei
I mean, searching the depths of the internet to find a patch/registry hack/workaround because something isn't working isn't exactly a good thing for anybody to be doing, and consoles offer a "plug and play" experience.

Can I ask what all these 'patch/registry hack/workarounds' are and why they are needed? I build my PCs, install the OS and drivers and anything else I need and then the games last. My PC just works. Patches are available for both PC games and Console games and with systems like Steam they are also automatic much like they are for consoles, but I have never ever had to 'search the depths of the internet' for anything to make my PC 'just work'. Unless I can be told otherwise, all these difficulties arise when you are trying to do specific things that a basic PC doesn't 'require' and wouldn't be available through console use in the first place.
jrs77 2nd December 2013, 10:13 Quote
Tinkering with mods isn't exactly the most fun. Playing the game is.

If all games on the new consoles would allow for native USB keyboard and mouse support, like UT3/Dust514 on the PS3 did then alot more people would move from the PC to the console.
For me personally the controls and the gamepad are the only reason, why I don't play more games on my PS3 instead the PC.
Especially multiplayer FPS-titles would profit alot from keyboard-mouse support on the coonsoles, as cheating and hacking is basically nonexistant on the consoles and everyone has the same graphics-settings, which would make the whole thing alot more fair and fun.
Corky42 2nd December 2013, 10:56 Quote
No one is forces people to use mods, isn't the point of an open system that you have a choice ?
jrs77 2nd December 2013, 11:30 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky42
No one is forces people to use mods, isn't the point of an open system that you have a choice ?

Choices are all nice and dandy, but you don't modify boardgames or sports either.

Improving graphics is one thing, but changing the gameplay is something totally different.

The biggest problem with modding is the cheats and hacks and these things are basically nonexistant on a console, which is why I'd actually prefer to play games on the console, if it wasn't for the controls.
GeorgeStorm 2nd December 2013, 11:50 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrs77
Choices are all nice and dandy, but you don't modify boardgames or sports either.

Improving graphics is one thing, but changing the gameplay is something totally different.

The biggest problem with modding is the cheats and hacks and these things are basically nonexistant on a console, which is why I'd actually prefer to play games on the console, if it wasn't for the controls.

I presume you're just talking about multiplayer games then? Since obviously for single player games you just choose not to if you don't want to change the gameplay (you can do the same in multiplayer as well obviously)
Corky42 2nd December 2013, 12:33 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrs77
Choices are all nice and dandy, but you don't modify boardgames or sports either.

Improving graphics is one thing, but changing the gameplay is something totally different.

The biggest problem with modding is the cheats and hacks and these things are basically nonexistant on a console, which is why I'd actually prefer to play games on the console, if it wasn't for the controls.

If the changes to the sport or the boardgame are sanctioned by everyone playing or the governing body they are, when you play monopoly do you have a auction if you land on an unowned space that you can either not afford or choose not to buy ? do you use the Railway Service rule ? Do you think all sports have remained unchanged since their inception ?

If you think hacking on consoles is basically nonexistent you need to do a search on Google for "aimbot xbox" or any other multiplayer related hacks for consoles.
jrs77 2nd December 2013, 13:49 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeStorm
I presume you're just talking about multiplayer games then? Since obviously for single player games you just choose not to if you don't want to change the gameplay (you can do the same in multiplayer as well obviously)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corky42
If the changes to the sport or the boardgame are sanctioned by everyone playing or the governing body they are, when you play monopoly do you have a auction if you land on an unowned space that you can either not afford or choose not to buy ? do you use the Railway Service rule ? Do you think all sports have remained unchanged since their inception ?

If you think hacking on consoles is basically nonexistent you need to do a search on Google for "aimbot xbox" or any other multiplayer related hacks for consoles.

Nope, I'm talking games in general. How else could we compare each other, if everyone plays a different version of Tomb Raider or whatever?

It's the highscores that count, and they only count if everyone plays the same game. Even in singleplayer-games... remember those Pac-Man, Space Invaders or pinball-machines where you were proud if your initials were on top of the list.

I'm playing any game like I would play a game of soccer in the premier league... allways competitive and not just for the fun of it. I wan't to win, that's the sole point of gaming for me.

And yes, there's some hacks for the consoles, but if you get caught, then you get your hardware banned, and not just your account.
bawjaws 2nd December 2013, 16:22 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrs77
Nope, I'm talking games in general. How else could we compare each other, if everyone plays a different version of Tomb Raider or whatever?

It's the highscores that count, and they only count if everyone plays the same game. Even in singleplayer-games... remember those Pac-Man, Space Invaders or pinball-machines where you were proud if your initials were on top of the list.

I'm playing any game like I would play a game of soccer in the premier league... allways competitive and not just for the fun of it. I wan't to win, that's the sole point of gaming for me.

And yes, there's some hacks for the consoles, but if you get caught, then you get your hardware banned, and not just your account.

Professional gamers aren't representative of the majority of gamers, who rather surprisingly play for fun. So there's no need for everyone to be playing the exact same version of the game - rather, it's better for each gamer to play the version of the game that they want to play, if that increases the fun they experience.

Not knocking your approach to gaming, but I'd suggest that it's not an approach shared by the overwhelmingly vast majority of gamers.

In short, a level playing field may be essential for professional competition, but professional competition isn't the be all and end all of gaming by any means.
jinq-sea 2nd December 2013, 16:33 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snips
Built correctly, not at all.

Err, building a PC properly doesn't make it not convert electrical energy into heat energy, unless by some amazing quirk of fate you can make it run at 100% efficiency in building it 'correctly'.

Chips, by their very nature, require cooling because they get hot. PC or games console? It's the same. Games console manufacturers may not provide sufficient heat dissipation, granted, but whatever happens it'll get hot...
GeorgeStorm 2nd December 2013, 16:33 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrs77
Nope, I'm talking games in general. How else could we compare each other, if everyone plays a different version of Tomb Raider or whatever?

It's the highscores that count, and they only count if everyone plays the same game. Even in singleplayer-games... remember those Pac-Man, Space Invaders or pinball-machines where you were proud if your initials were on top of the list.

I'm playing any game like I would play a game of soccer in the premier league... allways competitive and not just for the fun of it. I wan't to win, that's the sole point of gaming for me.

And yes, there's some hacks for the consoles, but if you get caught, then you get your hardware banned, and not just your account.

So if you want to play it for the competitiveness then surely playing about with settings is something you must do a lot of? Tweaking things to try and get the best performance possible etc?

A lot of people play games for the fun of playing them, they don't care how they compare to others in single player games.

Edit:
Out of interest, how would you compare different players on Tomb Raider?
sandys 2nd December 2013, 16:37 Quote
Tomb raider has XP and trophies, like that I suppose.

I always check my scores against people in my friends list, surely that is the point of scores/times, it is annoying when people exploit hacks/glitches.
SchizoFrog 2nd December 2013, 17:17 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by jinq-sea
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snips
Built correctly, not at all.

Err, building a PC properly doesn't make it not convert electrical energy into heat energy, unless by some amazing quirk of fate you can make it run at 100% efficiency in building it 'correctly'.

Chips, by their very nature, require cooling because they get hot. PC or games console? It's the same. Games console manufacturers may not provide sufficient heat dissipation, granted, but whatever happens it'll get hot...

I can't agree with your argument there. You know a PC or Console needs a processor to run so you factor that in to the design. You should also know that these things get hot and therefore you should factor in cooling to the design to. So I agree that should you design and build a PC or Console correctly then they should not be overheating. Components produce heat as a by product of their functions but they will only get hot if there is not adequate cooling methods to dissipate that heat.
jinq-sea 2nd December 2013, 17:25 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by SchizoFrog
I can't agree with your argument there. You know a PC or Console needs a processor to run so you factor that in to the design. You should also know that these things get hot and therefore you should factor in cooling to the design to. So I agree that should you design and build a PC or Console correctly then they should not be overheating. Components produce heat as a by product of their functions but they will only get hot if there is not adequate cooling methods to dissipate that heat.

I didn't once mention overheating. I just mentioned heating. Management thereof is imperative, but will not mitigate the heat entirely, by the very nature of processors!

Things being 'hot' is entirely subjective. Things being 'overhot' is also subjective, to a lesser degree. If something is overhot, the heat level is detrimental to the performance and may cause damage.
Cei 2nd December 2013, 18:02 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by SchizoFrog
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cei
I mean, searching the depths of the internet to find a patch/registry hack/workaround because something isn't working isn't exactly a good thing for anybody to be doing, and consoles offer a "plug and play" experience.

Can I ask what all these 'patch/registry hack/workarounds' are and why they are needed? I build my PCs, install the OS and drivers and anything else I need and then the games last. My PC just works. Patches are available for both PC games and Console games and with systems like Steam they are also automatic much like they are for consoles, but I have never ever had to 'search the depths of the internet' for anything to make my PC 'just work'. Unless I can be told otherwise, all these difficulties arise when you are trying to do specific things that a basic PC doesn't 'require' and wouldn't be available through console use in the first place.

Ever tried running a game from, say, 2005 on a widescreen? There's an entire website dedicated to 'hacking' games in to working correctly (http://www.wsgf.org/). SLI and Crossfire equally cause issues that can be either impossible or an absolute nightmare to fix.

Yes, my PC 'just works' most of the time...especially when I'm using Steam. If I'm not using Steam, then patches might have to be manually installed, or there might not even be a patch to get a game working on your OS. A good example is The Sims: Medieval. This isn't an old game, but when my wife wanted to play it on her Windows 8 system I discovered that the game isn't supported, there is no official patch, and you have to trawl forums to find workarounds that are 80% effective at best.
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