I'm usually against cinematic trailers, but for MMO's and RPGs I don't mind it. No matter how good or bad the game is, trying to explain the draw in 30-60 seconds of gameplay footage is incredibly hard. Dragon Age: Origins suffered pretty severely from this prior to release IIRC and turned into one of my games of the year.
But reading this article I couldn't help but be reminded by a past Bit-tech Critical Hit feature The Trouble With Lightsabers. I'm definitely in the camp of sacrificing 'canon' for gameplay - because drowning game designers in lore is a quick way to ruin a game. That said, discovering my Bounty Hunter had a healing spec was incredibly off-putting and felt very shoehorned.
Regardless, canon and class flavour are the least of SWTOR's problems. The game is boring as balls. I cannot wait for it to be released and people to see what it really is.
Remember, SWTOR takes place 300 years after the events of the Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic games, and more than 3,500 years before the events in the Star Wars films.
As jrs77 mentioned, use of force powers then was very different to how the films show it. 3,500 years is more than enough for the idea of a "legend" of some long-lost power to develop.
Originally Posted by Ph4lanx As jrs77 mentioned, use of force powers then was very different to how the films show it. 3,500 years is more than enough for the idea of a "legend" of some long-lost power to develop.
A Sith legend though, not a Jedi one. Surely Force-healing would be a big area of research for Jedi if it wasn't considered a Dark Side power? And how convenient to invent a time where bog-standard game mechanics can be used rather than have to use creativity to embrace such a rich source material...
Originally Posted by Claave A Sith legend though, not a Jedi one. Surely Force-healing would be a big area of research for Jedi if it wasn't considered a Dark Side power? And how convenient to invent a time where bog-standard game mechanics can be used rather than have to use creativity to embrace such a rich source material...
Who said it was just a sith legend? The reference could simply be referring to the use of the force as a power for resurrection. Just because a sith did it, doesn't mean it's a sith power. There is no such thing as a sith power or jedi power. The force is the force, however you use it. It's how people use it that defines their dark or light side. The fact a specific power isn't used by one side doesn't mean it's frowned upon, just that those particular people don't know how to use it.
And you mention about convenience. Not really, considering the films put the idea of force resurrection out there. It's canon, not convenience. The novels also carry this on, as do the original KOTOR games.
Originally Posted by Ph4lanx As jrs77 mentioned, use of force powers then was very different to how the films show it. 3,500 years is more than enough for the idea of a "legend" of some long-lost power to develop.
A Sith legend though, not a Jedi one. Surely Force-healing would be a big area of research for Jedi if it wasn't considered a Dark Side power? And how convenient to invent a time where bog-standard game mechanics can be used rather than have to use creativity to embrace such a rich source material...
KOTOR had Force Heal as a light side power, stop basing everything off the films, theres alot more to Star Wars than those god aweful 3 prequels.
The information in this review is mostly wrong, the reviewer hasn't bothered to even look up basic Star Wars things and hasn't bothered to look up the game at all it seems.
A line from the film is not defacto lore for an entire timeline. I mean the Jedi goes from sitting on the council to being a hokey religion in about 20years or so.
Anyways I for one can`t wait and was gunning on the consular class. Just a pity I can`t play the same race as Yoda.
Originally Posted by Claave A Sith legend though, not a Jedi one. Surely Force-healing would be a big area of research for Jedi if it wasn't considered a Dark Side power? And how convenient to invent a time where bog-standard game mechanics can be used rather than have to use creativity to embrace such a rich source material...
I don't think that just because a Sith "discovered" or fine-tuned a certain aspect of the Force, it means that particular aspect is specific to Jedi and/or Sith.
Not to mention that simply labeling all Sith as "evil" and all Jedi as "good" is about as useful as saying "X Religion is comprised of terrorists".
My personal view is that from a light-side point of view, Force Healing fits in rather well, supporting allies, easing pain and suffering etc. The Dark-side aspect comes in when trying to achieve immortality and "escape death" (there's a difference between trying to cheat death and trying to save someone's life).
Let's also not forget that there already are conventional healing methods in the form of medical probes and bacta/kolto canisters etc. on the Trooper/BH and Smuggler/Agent Advanced Classes.
Quote:
Essentially, the Jedi Consular is an intergalactic diplomat - how dull
Well i think this quote takes the cake really.
I'm sure that these articles are supposed to represent your own opinion, as opposed to that of the site's/magazine's but it's quite easy to misinterpret that.
I accept that the concept isn't entertaining to some (if i didn't think you were actually serious about your comment, i'd liken it to a child who only wants to blow things up and go "pew pew"). However there are quite a few people who want to roleplay other aspects of the Jedi, including their more diplomatic side, something that i'd point out was noted at the start of Episode 1 (and not some obscure Expanded Universe novel).
And to use its Sith counterpart as a comparison, the story of the Sith Inquisitor is all about pulling strings behind the war, accruing favours from people in high places and maybe even collecting on those further along in the story. It's more about deception and manipulation as opposed to dealing with the war head-on.
Now, i'll accept the classes aren't going to be identical, however since "Light-side" and "Dark-side" are mutually exclusive concepts from faction, and the Consular is that of a diplomat, i'd expect the same ability to backstab and blackmail your way into a more powerful position during the Consular's story.
All in all, it's more of a thinking man's story. Something that i would have thought bit-tech is more open to, rather than the age-old run/gun, big explosions, pew-pew lasers of death.
Originally Posted by vdbswong I don't think that just because a Sith "discovered" or fine-tuned a certain aspect of the Force, it means that particular aspect is specific to Jedi and/or Sith.
Not to mention that simply labeling all Sith as "evil" and all Jedi as "good" is about as useful as saying "X Religion is comprised of terrorists".
My personal view is that from a light-side point of view, Force Healing fits in rather well, supporting allies, easing pain and suffering etc. The Dark-side aspect comes in when trying to achieve immortality and "escape death" (there's a difference between trying to cheat death and trying to save someone's life).
Let's also not forget that there already are conventional healing methods in the form of medical probes and bacta/kolto canisters etc. on the Trooper/BH and Smuggler/Agent Advanced Classes.
Well i think this quote takes the cake really.
I'm sure that these articles are supposed to represent your own opinion, as opposed to that of the site's/magazine's but it's quite easy to misinterpret that.
I accept that the concept isn't entertaining to some (if i didn't think you were actually serious about your comment, i'd liken it to a child who only wants to blow things up and go "pew pew"). However there are quite a few people who want to roleplay other aspects of the Jedi, including their more diplomatic side, something that i'd point out was noted at the start of Episode 1 (and not some obscure Expanded Universe novel).
And to use its Sith counterpart as a comparison, the story of the Sith Inquisitor is all about pulling strings behind the war, accruing favours from people in high places and maybe even collecting on those further along in the story. It's more about deception and manipulation as opposed to dealing with the war head-on.
Now, i'll accept the classes aren't going to be identical, however since "Light-side" and "Dark-side" are mutually exclusive concepts from faction, and the Consular is that of a diplomat, i'd expect the same ability to backstab and blackmail your way into a more powerful position during the Consular's story.
All in all, it's more of a thinking man's story. Something that i would have thought bit-tech is more open to, rather than the age-old run/gun, big explosions, pew-pew lasers of death.
I can see your underlying point. Lazy innovation and lack of lore tie-in. Although it's hard to be sure if it's that cut and dry.
End of the day, I'm in the camp of they should have just made SWG2. That was THE star wars feeling and it will forever be THE star wars MMO imo. Pre-SOE-balls-up of course.
I was desperately looking forward to SWTOR but the direction they have taken the game leaves me cold and I've since put it aside. Almost linear single-player quest arcs, no thanks.
Originally Posted by Digi I can see your underlying point. Lazy innovation and lack of lore tie-in. Although it's hard to be sure if it's that cut and dry.
End of the day, I'm in the camp of they should have just made SWG2. That was THE star wars feeling and it will forever be THE star wars MMO imo. Pre-SOE-balls-up of course.
I was desperately looking forward to SWTOR but the direction they have taken the game leaves me cold and I've since put it aside. Almost linear single-player quest arcs, no thanks.
You actually need to look up SWTOR, linear single player? It's far from it.
Everything in this review is complete crap. Stop basing Star Wars lore off the films.
Originally Posted by Smellyhead You actually need to look up SWTOR, linear single player? It's far from it.
Everything in this review is complete crap. Stop basing Star Wars lore off the films.
I've been a member on the site since it was put up, I've read information like a fiend (SWTOR official site). Being locked into a class based quest arc means you cannot play through a MASSIVELY-MULTIPLAYER-ORPG the way you want with the friends you want. Confirmed by BT's preview play through to be found here: http://www.bit-tech.net/gaming/pc/2011/04/29/star-wars-the-old-republic-preview/1
We all want this game to be the new SWG, but unfourtunetly its not going to be. It is however going to more like WOW and face, that IS a good game, and with a Star Wars skin, I'm at least trying it.
Originally Posted by Smellyhead You actually need to look up SWTOR, linear single player? It's far from it.
Everything in this review is complete crap. Stop basing Star Wars lore off the films.
I've been a member on the site since it was put up, I've read information like a fiend (SWTOR official site). Being locked into a class based quest arc means you cannot play through a MASSIVELY-MULTIPLAYER-ORPG the way you want with the friends you want. Confirmed by BT's preview play through to be found here: http://www.bit-tech.net/gaming/pc/2011/04/29/star-wars-the-old-republic-preview/1
The part your friends can't take part in is your own personal story dialogue conversations.
I didn't realise Bit tech word was law, 2 days of playing is not enough to give a good insight into an MMO.
Hello, just a word about the force healing, in the book an aprentice of Luke save Mon Mothma from a DNA poison with the force and she learn that in an ancient Jedi Holocron....
It sounds to me like they've tried to make a well rounded support class combining healing, high charisma and moderate combat abilities.
As for all this lore stuff, is Star Wars for some reason not able to reinvent itself? Every time The Incredible Hulk is given a new writer or a new film/series it's a completely different Hulk but people, including hardcore fans, get over it. They get over it because at some point this dude will get angry and beat up some stuff, and is giant and usually green and obviously the Hulk. Sometimes they make a rubbish arc, and the fans react badly. They react badly because they paid money for something they didn't enjoy.
Well, if a game has Jedi, Sith, droids and sand people then you know what, I am going to be able to reconcile whatever else they put in there because I already know its Star Wars - the guys with light sabres give it away - and I am sure as hell going to be more concerned with how much I enjoy the game than whether or not the background is accurate to the existing cannon.
Why would they set the game so far before the films unless they wanted that wriggle room? And who can blame them?
Just watched that trailer, looked lame imo. I'm not too fussed about what classes there are in the game, I'm more bothered about gameplay, and it looked pretty dull to me. Why can't they make it play more like Jedi Knight 2? The stormtroopers in that game actually moved around instead of standing still when they are being shot. :(
Originally Posted by Smellyhead The part your friends can't take part in is your own personal story dialogue conversations.
I didn't realise Bit tech word was law, 2 days of playing is not enough to give a good insight into an MMO.
Errr... it's not law but it has been said by multiple sites. If you are different classes then forget it, it's just not possible. If you're the same class you have double up on companions and phase out of each other during certain parts. As far as I've read this quest arc is like this if not all the way through then most of the leveling experience. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
And BT always tries to be subjective and tell it like they see it. There is a reason a lot of people trust their opinion. It is OK to be objective but you clearly cannot be. I want the game to be successful but right now it's turning out to be a 'not my cup of tea' affair.
Originally Posted by Digi Please correct me if I'm wrong.
You're wrong. The developers have explained the personal story arc as something that follows you through as you play the game and progress. Yes, it is mainly single player, and yes it is phased, but it is not ALL you do to level up. As you hit certain levels, another part of your personal arc will open up. You can do it, or not. It's up to you. Other missions, like any other MMO, are also available for grouping. As are instances, PvP, etc.
As much as TOR doesn't interest me, I have to agree with the other comments, this reads just like flame bate.
Video game Jedis have had Force Heal for as long as they've existed. Lucas Arts themselves had it in Jedi Knight, and it was a Light Side power.
In the grand scheme of things, it's a tiny, tiny deviation from the movies and one that fits perfectly well into the greater Star Wars lore. Really not worth an article on it to be honest.
Originally Posted by Deadpunkdave It sounds to me like they've tried to make a well rounded support class combining healing, high charisma and moderate combat abilities.
Sort of.
The trailer is actually somewhat misleading in that healing only comes with the "Sage" advanced class (something you pick at Level 10) and even then, it's a "choice".
In fact the "Consular" is merely only a choice for what type of story you want whereas your Advanced Class defines how your character plays.
The other Advanced Class for the Consular is the Shadow and that's a more Assassin like character with Stealth and a Double Bladed Lightsaber. They can then spec either into a Force/Saber DPS hybrid or can spec into a Tank-type class focused on Evasion (and maybe Parrying).
The healing aspect is completely locked out if you go for the Shadow and is only available to Sages who go down the relevant ability tree (the other tree is more of a Force based DPS class, similar to a ranged caster).
On a seperate point, I always presumed Palpatine's speech about a Jedi who could resurrect was a lie, like everything else he says, just to manipulate Anakin to the dark side.
Why are you so sure he wasn't talking total bullcrap?
Originally Posted by Ph4lanx You're wrong. The developers have explained the personal story arc as something that follows you through as you play the game and progress. Yes, it is mainly single player, and yes it is phased, but it is not ALL you do to level up. As you hit certain levels, another part of your personal arc will open up. You can do it, or not. It's up to you. Other missions, like any other MMO, are also available for grouping. As are instances, PvP, etc.
If it's not a matter of you lose more than you gain by doing it this way then fine, I concede the point. Have some rep you git. :)
Comments 1 to 25 of 73
ReplyEvery part of SWTOR I've seen on here has been covered in wrong information and the reviewer obviously hates games and Star Wars.
But reading this article I couldn't help but be reminded by a past Bit-tech Critical Hit feature The Trouble With Lightsabers. I'm definitely in the camp of sacrificing 'canon' for gameplay - because drowning game designers in lore is a quick way to ruin a game. That said, discovering my Bounty Hunter had a healing spec was incredibly off-putting and felt very shoehorned.
Regardless, canon and class flavour are the least of SWTOR's problems. The game is boring as balls. I cannot wait for it to be released and people to see what it really is.
As jrs77 mentioned, use of force powers then was very different to how the films show it. 3,500 years is more than enough for the idea of a "legend" of some long-lost power to develop.
A Sith legend though, not a Jedi one. Surely Force-healing would be a big area of research for Jedi if it wasn't considered a Dark Side power? And how convenient to invent a time where bog-standard game mechanics can be used rather than have to use creativity to embrace such a rich source material...
Who said it was just a sith legend? The reference could simply be referring to the use of the force as a power for resurrection. Just because a sith did it, doesn't mean it's a sith power. There is no such thing as a sith power or jedi power. The force is the force, however you use it. It's how people use it that defines their dark or light side. The fact a specific power isn't used by one side doesn't mean it's frowned upon, just that those particular people don't know how to use it.
And you mention about convenience. Not really, considering the films put the idea of force resurrection out there. It's canon, not convenience. The novels also carry this on, as do the original KOTOR games.
KOTOR had Force Heal as a light side power, stop basing everything off the films, theres alot more to Star Wars than those god aweful 3 prequels.
The information in this review is mostly wrong, the reviewer hasn't bothered to even look up basic Star Wars things and hasn't bothered to look up the game at all it seems.
Anyways I for one can`t wait and was gunning on the consular class. Just a pity I can`t play the same race as Yoda.
I don't think that just because a Sith "discovered" or fine-tuned a certain aspect of the Force, it means that particular aspect is specific to Jedi and/or Sith.
Not to mention that simply labeling all Sith as "evil" and all Jedi as "good" is about as useful as saying "X Religion is comprised of terrorists".
My personal view is that from a light-side point of view, Force Healing fits in rather well, supporting allies, easing pain and suffering etc. The Dark-side aspect comes in when trying to achieve immortality and "escape death" (there's a difference between trying to cheat death and trying to save someone's life).
Let's also not forget that there already are conventional healing methods in the form of medical probes and bacta/kolto canisters etc. on the Trooper/BH and Smuggler/Agent Advanced Classes.
Well i think this quote takes the cake really.
I'm sure that these articles are supposed to represent your own opinion, as opposed to that of the site's/magazine's but it's quite easy to misinterpret that.
I accept that the concept isn't entertaining to some (if i didn't think you were actually serious about your comment, i'd liken it to a child who only wants to blow things up and go "pew pew"). However there are quite a few people who want to roleplay other aspects of the Jedi, including their more diplomatic side, something that i'd point out was noted at the start of Episode 1 (and not some obscure Expanded Universe novel).
And to use its Sith counterpart as a comparison, the story of the Sith Inquisitor is all about pulling strings behind the war, accruing favours from people in high places and maybe even collecting on those further along in the story. It's more about deception and manipulation as opposed to dealing with the war head-on.
Now, i'll accept the classes aren't going to be identical, however since "Light-side" and "Dark-side" are mutually exclusive concepts from faction, and the Consular is that of a diplomat, i'd expect the same ability to backstab and blackmail your way into a more powerful position during the Consular's story.
All in all, it's more of a thinking man's story. Something that i would have thought bit-tech is more open to, rather than the age-old run/gun, big explosions, pew-pew lasers of death.
+1
End of the day, I'm in the camp of they should have just made SWG2. That was THE star wars feeling and it will forever be THE star wars MMO imo. Pre-SOE-balls-up of course.
I was desperately looking forward to SWTOR but the direction they have taken the game leaves me cold and I've since put it aside. Almost linear single-player quest arcs, no thanks.
You actually need to look up SWTOR, linear single player? It's far from it.
Everything in this review is complete crap. Stop basing Star Wars lore off the films.
Erm... *cough*
It's not a review.
Carry on! :D
I've been a member on the site since it was put up, I've read information like a fiend (SWTOR official site). Being locked into a class based quest arc means you cannot play through a MASSIVELY-MULTIPLAYER-ORPG the way you want with the friends you want. Confirmed by BT's preview play through to be found here:
http://www.bit-tech.net/gaming/pc/2011/04/29/star-wars-the-old-republic-preview/1
The part your friends can't take part in is your own personal story dialogue conversations.
I didn't realise Bit tech word was law, 2 days of playing is not enough to give a good insight into an MMO.
As for all this lore stuff, is Star Wars for some reason not able to reinvent itself? Every time The Incredible Hulk is given a new writer or a new film/series it's a completely different Hulk but people, including hardcore fans, get over it. They get over it because at some point this dude will get angry and beat up some stuff, and is giant and usually green and obviously the Hulk. Sometimes they make a rubbish arc, and the fans react badly. They react badly because they paid money for something they didn't enjoy.
Well, if a game has Jedi, Sith, droids and sand people then you know what, I am going to be able to reconcile whatever else they put in there because I already know its Star Wars - the guys with light sabres give it away - and I am sure as hell going to be more concerned with how much I enjoy the game than whether or not the background is accurate to the existing cannon.
Why would they set the game so far before the films unless they wanted that wriggle room? And who can blame them?
Errr... it's not law but it has been said by multiple sites. If you are different classes then forget it, it's just not possible. If you're the same class you have double up on companions and phase out of each other during certain parts. As far as I've read this quest arc is like this if not all the way through then most of the leveling experience. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
And BT always tries to be subjective and tell it like they see it. There is a reason a lot of people trust their opinion. It is OK to be objective but you clearly cannot be. I want the game to be successful but right now it's turning out to be a 'not my cup of tea' affair.
You're wrong. The developers have explained the personal story arc as something that follows you through as you play the game and progress. Yes, it is mainly single player, and yes it is phased, but it is not ALL you do to level up. As you hit certain levels, another part of your personal arc will open up. You can do it, or not. It's up to you. Other missions, like any other MMO, are also available for grouping. As are instances, PvP, etc.
Video game Jedis have had Force Heal for as long as they've existed. Lucas Arts themselves had it in Jedi Knight, and it was a Light Side power.
In the grand scheme of things, it's a tiny, tiny deviation from the movies and one that fits perfectly well into the greater Star Wars lore. Really not worth an article on it to be honest.
Sort of.
The trailer is actually somewhat misleading in that healing only comes with the "Sage" advanced class (something you pick at Level 10) and even then, it's a "choice".
In fact the "Consular" is merely only a choice for what type of story you want whereas your Advanced Class defines how your character plays.
The other Advanced Class for the Consular is the Shadow and that's a more Assassin like character with Stealth and a Double Bladed Lightsaber. They can then spec either into a Force/Saber DPS hybrid or can spec into a Tank-type class focused on Evasion (and maybe Parrying).
The healing aspect is completely locked out if you go for the Shadow and is only available to Sages who go down the relevant ability tree (the other tree is more of a Force based DPS class, similar to a ranged caster).
Why are you so sure he wasn't talking total bullcrap?
If it's not a matter of you lose more than you gain by doing it this way then fine, I concede the point. Have some rep you git. :)
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