I'm really disappointed, on your LoL review I stated that if you complain about the lack of maps you would be 'wrong' because the entire 'meta game' (balance of heroes/items) relies somewhat on the map itself.
Reading this I was thinking this was a must buy (never having known DotA and being a lover of EVE Online), but I'm afraid this puts me off:
One thing that does rankle though is the fact that your $30 game code, purchased directly from S2, is attached to a single in-game account, rather than a master account under which you can have multiple aliases as in MMOs. This means that when youre finally ready to step up and play the game properly, youll still be stuck with the stats from those 0/10 drubbings you received when starting out unless you pay an extra $20 for a second alias. In our opinion that's a little exploitative.
I'd like to think of myself as a relatively seasoned gamer, both on and offline. I've not played DotA or any of the successors. However, I'm not afraid to try new games.
The problem I have is the purchase of a game like this doesn't sound like much fun at all. We're all newbies once, but this game doesn't strike me as being terribly aware of the concession needed for new players unfamiliar with the genre. I certainly wouldn't spend money on an experience which shapes up to be hard work, or potentially demoralising and maybe even abusive.
the people who play this game would be quite happy if no-one ever took it up again. i tried the beta but after getting kicked from lobbies or games and called all sorts of names its not an experience i'd want to repeat. im an intelligent person and i pick things up reasonably quick, but im not prepared to sit there and take abuse from some 14 year old yank for using the wrong AoE debuff or whatever. its cult, it'll stay cult and the people who play are happy with that.
Originally Posted by [PUNK] crompers Its cult, it'll stay cult and the people who play are happy with that.
I tried to stress this in the review. If you're "IN" to these games and have been in the beta while the game grew, it's great! If not, you're in for a long road of n00b abuse :(
Quote:
Originally Posted by p3n I'm really disappointed, on your LoL review I stated that if you complain about the lack of maps you would be 'wrong' because the entire 'meta game' (balance of heroes/items) relies somewhat on the map itself.
From the review:
Once you’ve gotten the hang of things, HoN’s longevity can really shine too. While the game format means there’s just the one 5v5 map (and a 3v3 map in beta), the massive amount of hero and item combinations available means you’ll never play the same game twice. The map is merely the blank canvas onto which the players can make the game and there’s huge variety in approaches as to how to play particular heroes.
This is very polished game to an extent. I may buy it soon enough.
But as its online, the community is abig part of this.
And lets face it, the community in general is full of c***s, never seen so much abuse when i was trying to learn this game. And this was when i was joining noob friendly games...
Dota has a steep learning curve with serious problems such as matchmaking, latency, leavers, and development limitations. Guess what? It became one of the most popular games EVER. What does that mean? People are willing to learn and improve just like there are people ready to rage quit because they suck or don't have the patience.
HoN is no different, but it has matchmaking, no lag, rankings, clan support, better graphics, etc...
So if you give HoN a 6, then you're basically giving Dota a 3, which I'm sure many players would strongly disagree with.
Conclusion: If you don't have the patience and don't like Dota or RPG/RTS hybrid games, this game isn't for you, but if you do, you'll enjoy this game a lot. I know I did...
@////\oo/\\\\ If you play EVE Online, supposedly a game with a very steep learning curve, then you most certainly have the patience for HoN.
yeah i think the review addressed that side of it well, wasnt criticising at all. the game is nice graphically and well put together, its just a shame most people will never get to experience it without OMGWTFNOOB every ten seconds.
tbh i can see the appeal of such a tight community and i understand why these people sorta want to keep something for themselves. i can see why the game has grown into that sort of a community, one reason being its 1337 modder "in the know" status and another being the fact that in gameplay noobish actions directly affect your squad. as you mentioned deaths can contribute directly to one character uber leveling and wiping out the entire team, which of course can be rage inducing if you're a good player.
EDIT@Loafers: the point is you dont just need patience to learn this game, you need to be prepared to sit through hours of abuse for getting stuff wrong (which will definately happen). as i said complex, deep gameplay and a steep learning curve doesnt scare me at all and i welcome it, but everyone needs a chance to learn.
I've never played DOTA but started playing HON at the beginning of it's Beta release which was somewhat....AGES ago.
Luckily for me that mean i managed to learn the game well enough(very well if i do say so myself) to be competent at playing on the release so my stats have only gone up and not down.
However i can understand the annoyance of buying it without playing beta etc and having to learn and just watch your stats drop.
The only thing that annoys me personally about the game is that it is VERY VERY team dependent. Which is fine if I'm playing with 4 friends, However when playing with randoms... if you get one terribly bad player or "feeder" it makes it very hard to win however well you yourself play.
If anyone wants to play add me up on friends: el2K
I played the beta, and to be honest, your friends MADE the game. When it was 4 of your friends vs 5 unknowns, it's great fun. But when it's you and 4 unknowns, it is very dull.
Even 3v3 of you and your friends is good. But again stick in people you don't know, and the game becomes dull.
Don't get me started on the number of fake-statisticians(they only analyse one stat hence fake) you come across in this game who take your losses as an indicator that you should not be in their team.
Originally Posted by Loafers Dota has a steep learning curve with serious problems such as matchmaking, latency, leavers, and development limitations. Guess what? It became one of the most popular games EVER. What does that mean? People are willing to learn and improve just like there are people ready to rage quit because they suck or don't have the patience.
HoN is no different, but it has matchmaking, no lag, rankings, clan support, better graphics, etc...
So if you give HoN a 6, then you're basically giving Dota a 3, which I'm sure many players would strongly disagree with.
Conclusion: If you don't have the patience and don't like Dota or RPG/RTS hybrid games, this game isn't for you, but if you do, you'll enjoy this game a lot. I know I did...
Look beyond the score and that's exactly what I said.
I think a lot could be learnt from the MMO game style and applied to this game type to improve the experience for new players. The trick really is to drip feed the game to them so they learn as they play, the bonus with this idea is the game has more replayability and goals to achieve..
First thing I'd do is limit the new players hero choice.. Give them a choice of 3 (3 each side), and go heavy on the tutorials on these classes so new players can learn the game properly. As people play the game, unlock further hero's in groups of three until they have earned the right to play all the hero's available. If the game forced you to play every hero at least once before unlocking more, people should have some idea of every hero's ability.
Ofc, players need to be kept in their own groups as their experience grows.. So matchmaking new players with other new players, not allowing top level players the ability to play with lower level players on "ranked" matches. (Some flexibilty would be needed, but really, an experienced player should never be matched against a total noobie).
One feature in HON I did like was the shop, at least it had a recommended page for your hero. This made purchasing items a damm sight easier than DOTA. I did play the beta @ Lan parties mainly, enjoyed my time with them however I wouldnt consider buying this to play online becuase of the attitude of the other players.
The easiest way to learn and the way i did it was to "Random Pick" my hero every game. That way you HAVE to learn every hero and you also get like 200 more gold for it so its a win-win situation.
Once you have learned each hero that is when i find the game starts to get interesting by using different items on each hero to make different "builds" to counter the opposing heroes.
Ok, I actually thought this was a fair review of the game as a HoN player.
But regarding the -
"One thing that does rankle though is the fact that your $30 game code, purchased directly from S2, is attached to a single in-game account, rather than a master account under which you can have multiple aliases as in MMOs. This means that when youre finally ready to step up and play the game properly, youll still be stuck with the stats from those 0/10 drubbings you received when starting out unless you pay an extra $20 for a second alias. In our opinion that's a little exploitative."
You have no idea how necessary this is.
Was In beta from the beginning (about 10 months before release). The Ratings/Stats system while awesome was completely broke at lower levels of play because of Smurfs. People making new accounts to deliberately keep low to steam roll new/lower play gamers. You think the learning curve is hard now but it was impossible when every game (unless you had a decent host) would be filled with people that were FAR from being classed as 'noobs'. There had to be a way to make a new account but it had to be off-putting so much that you wouldn't get smurfs.
There are already a handful who have been willing to repurchase the game just to do it, but compared to 1-2 every game in beta its been alot more fun to game.
Smurfs broke the game - the $20 sub-account fixed it.
Plus you can always host your own games when you start off and inspect peoples stats to get a good idea if they are a good match for you or not. Or as previously mentioned by someone, Only join "No Stats" games to start off with.
I think the things HON got marked badly for are easily avoidable.
Originally Posted by el2k I think the things HON got marked badly for are easily avoidable.
While I thought the account system a bit explotative, I can see the benefits vs smurf accounts. The real area we marfked this game down on though was the lack of tutorials and the ludicrous learning curve. As I say in the review it'll take you 48hrs of play time to try every hero once; thats a lot of game time to invest to learn the basics.
Originally Posted by Baz While I thought the account system a bit explotative, I can see the benefits vs smurf accounts. The real area we marfked this game down on though was the lack of tutorials and the ludicrous learning curve. As I say in the review it'll take you 48hrs of play time to try every hero once; thats a lot of game time to invest to learn the basics.
I understand totally. But for me that's part of the reason i like the game so much and maybe partly why i think the game is doing so well.
If i start playing a game and I'm utterly crap at it there's nothing i want to do more than play it over and over and over until I'm good.
Comments 1 to 25 of 38
ReplyOne thing that does rankle though is the fact that your $30 game code, purchased directly from S2, is attached to a single in-game account, rather than a master account under which you can have multiple aliases as in MMOs. This means that when youre finally ready to step up and play the game properly, youll still be stuck with the stats from those 0/10 drubbings you received when starting out unless you pay an extra $20 for a second alias. In our opinion that's a little exploitative.
The problem I have is the purchase of a game like this doesn't sound like much fun at all. We're all newbies once, but this game doesn't strike me as being terribly aware of the concession needed for new players unfamiliar with the genre. I certainly wouldn't spend money on an experience which shapes up to be hard work, or potentially demoralising and maybe even abusive.
I was hoping HoN would even the field, but it seems not. Oh well :(
I tried to stress this in the review. If you're "IN" to these games and have been in the beta while the game grew, it's great! If not, you're in for a long road of n00b abuse :(
From the review:
Once you’ve gotten the hang of things, HoN’s longevity can really shine too. While the game format means there’s just the one 5v5 map (and a 3v3 map in beta), the massive amount of hero and item combinations available means you’ll never play the same game twice. The map is merely the blank canvas onto which the players can make the game and there’s huge variety in approaches as to how to play particular heroes.
But as its online, the community is abig part of this.
And lets face it, the community in general is full of c***s, never seen so much abuse when i was trying to learn this game. And this was when i was joining noob friendly games...
I was hoping HoN would even the field, but it seems not. Oh well :(
HoN is no different, but it has matchmaking, no lag, rankings, clan support, better graphics, etc...
So if you give HoN a 6, then you're basically giving Dota a 3, which I'm sure many players would strongly disagree with.
Conclusion: If you don't have the patience and don't like Dota or RPG/RTS hybrid games, this game isn't for you, but if you do, you'll enjoy this game a lot. I know I did...
@////\oo/\\\\ If you play EVE Online, supposedly a game with a very steep learning curve, then you most certainly have the patience for HoN.
tbh i can see the appeal of such a tight community and i understand why these people sorta want to keep something for themselves. i can see why the game has grown into that sort of a community, one reason being its 1337 modder "in the know" status and another being the fact that in gameplay noobish actions directly affect your squad. as you mentioned deaths can contribute directly to one character uber leveling and wiping out the entire team, which of course can be rage inducing if you're a good player.
EDIT@Loafers: the point is you dont just need patience to learn this game, you need to be prepared to sit through hours of abuse for getting stuff wrong (which will definately happen). as i said complex, deep gameplay and a steep learning curve doesnt scare me at all and i welcome it, but everyone needs a chance to learn.
Luckily for me that mean i managed to learn the game well enough(very well if i do say so myself) to be competent at playing on the release so my stats have only gone up and not down.
However i can understand the annoyance of buying it without playing beta etc and having to learn and just watch your stats drop.
The only thing that annoys me personally about the game is that it is VERY VERY team dependent. Which is fine if I'm playing with 4 friends, However when playing with randoms... if you get one terribly bad player or "feeder" it makes it very hard to win however well you yourself play.
If anyone wants to play add me up on friends: el2K
Cheers
Liam
Also, I may be wrong, but can't you play in unrated noob games to reduce QQ?
Even 3v3 of you and your friends is good. But again stick in people you don't know, and the game becomes dull.
Don't get me started on the number of fake-statisticians(they only analyse one stat hence fake) you come across in this game who take your losses as an indicator that you should not be in their team.
Look beyond the score and that's exactly what I said.
First thing I'd do is limit the new players hero choice.. Give them a choice of 3 (3 each side), and go heavy on the tutorials on these classes so new players can learn the game properly. As people play the game, unlock further hero's in groups of three until they have earned the right to play all the hero's available. If the game forced you to play every hero at least once before unlocking more, people should have some idea of every hero's ability.
Ofc, players need to be kept in their own groups as their experience grows.. So matchmaking new players with other new players, not allowing top level players the ability to play with lower level players on "ranked" matches. (Some flexibilty would be needed, but really, an experienced player should never be matched against a total noobie).
One feature in HON I did like was the shop, at least it had a recommended page for your hero. This made purchasing items a damm sight easier than DOTA. I did play the beta @ Lan parties mainly, enjoyed my time with them however I wouldnt consider buying this to play online becuase of the attitude of the other players.
Once you have learned each hero that is when i find the game starts to get interesting by using different items on each hero to make different "builds" to counter the opposing heroes.
But regarding the -
"One thing that does rankle though is the fact that your $30 game code, purchased directly from S2, is attached to a single in-game account, rather than a master account under which you can have multiple aliases as in MMOs. This means that when youre finally ready to step up and play the game properly, youll still be stuck with the stats from those 0/10 drubbings you received when starting out unless you pay an extra $20 for a second alias. In our opinion that's a little exploitative."
You have no idea how necessary this is.
Was In beta from the beginning (about 10 months before release). The Ratings/Stats system while awesome was completely broke at lower levels of play because of Smurfs. People making new accounts to deliberately keep low to steam roll new/lower play gamers. You think the learning curve is hard now but it was impossible when every game (unless you had a decent host) would be filled with people that were FAR from being classed as 'noobs'. There had to be a way to make a new account but it had to be off-putting so much that you wouldn't get smurfs.
There are already a handful who have been willing to repurchase the game just to do it, but compared to 1-2 every game in beta its been alot more fun to game.
Smurfs broke the game - the $20 sub-account fixed it.
Plus you can always host your own games when you start off and inspect peoples stats to get a good idea if they are a good match for you or not. Or as previously mentioned by someone, Only join "No Stats" games to start off with.
I think the things HON got marked badly for are easily avoidable.
While I thought the account system a bit explotative, I can see the benefits vs smurf accounts. The real area we marfked this game down on though was the lack of tutorials and the ludicrous learning curve. As I say in the review it'll take you 48hrs of play time to try every hero once; thats a lot of game time to invest to learn the basics.
0OzWIFX8M-Y
Embed for those who missed it. Earbleeding dreadful indeed.
I understand totally. But for me that's part of the reason i like the game so much and maybe partly why i think the game is doing so well.
If i start playing a game and I'm utterly crap at it there's nothing i want to do more than play it over and over and over until I'm good.
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