Left 4 Dead

Originally Posted by Baz
Mind if I ask if you have a bank account, or whether you keep all your cash under your bed? There's nothing to stop financial institutions from going belly up and you losing all your cash, but it's such a rare event, and the benefits of using them are so great that everyone does.

I think the same thinking can be applied to Valve. While it took a while to win us over, we're now confident in it's longevity and support to the point that many would rather buy via Steam than via stores. Of course there will always be the occasional bunch who refuses to be paid in any other way but cash though, just as there are those that cling to boxed copies.

Take it a step further, does he own a car, god forbid VW or Toyota goes belly-up and there goes your warranty by default. His particular counter-arguement applies to anything. So as much as you guys are trying to debate how good of a service steam may or may not be you won't get anywhere with it in this particular discussion. You can't argue any point with someone who will just play devil's advocate to any counter-arguement you provide. You guys have given enough information as to why Steam is a valid alternative.


As for Left 4 Dead. I love the game. Versus mode is by far one of the best multiplayer experiences I have had in a long time and I love the level of coordination required to truly excel in Versus mode. I have only been playing the Campaign mode on Normal to get better aquainted with each map before I try advanced and eventually expert mode. This game is near perfect in my book. I don't need a deep engaging single player when the online multiplayer works so well.

i've played the demo, and certainly it was a fun time.. i'm just not generally a fan of zombies/horror so I'm still on the fence whether i'll buy it

interesting thing to note: my friend was able to tweak the config file of the demo to constantly spam zombie hordes for his hosted game

Originally Posted by themax
So as much as you guys are trying to debate how good of a service steam may or may not be you won't get anywhere with it in this particular discussion. You can't argue any point with someone who will just play devil's advocate to any counter-arguement you provide.

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/6711/arguemnetuj1.jpg

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/7928/258trollsprayqj0.jpg

Originally Posted by Bauul
Let me guess... you weren't playing it on Expert were you?

Right, go back and play it again on Expert, and then come back to us with informed opinions. ;)

Nope I wasn't, I'll generally just play games on normal/standard first, then step up if it's too easy. I honestly had no inclination to play the demo any more but I'll give it a try on expert tonight and see how I go.

Originally Posted by mmorgue
?! Wow. That's pretty harsh. Everyone has their own opinion but.. really? "Cheaply made" ?

I was expecting a lot from the game having seen and read the build up and don't remember the last time a game disappointed me so much :( We'll see after I have a play on expert.

Edit: Erm, I would play it but when I try to start the demo it's saying I need to purchase the game. Have Valve turned off the demo now the full game's released or is my Steam install having a fit?

launch the demo from the programs files folder not from steam it still works.

I played the demo chapter loaded the next one and was baffled. Does the story not carry on from chapter to chapter, do we found out how people were infected etc? It's half a game without these for me.

Software, is an intangible product, hence the piracy issue. Its functionality is not dependent upon the existence of outside support. So, one might better ask; would it be acceptable if Toyota had to tell your car it was OK to keep working, every 10,000 miles?

To put it another way: software does not have to stop working merely because its publisher couldn't be bothered to keep telling it that it was OK for it to work, and because it doesn't have to, it shouldn't.

And frankly, this "Valve will never go out of business" line is just hyperventilating fanboyism. Cavedog were huge, and are gone. Origin Systems were huger - big enough to spend the first seven figure sum on developing a game, and are gone. All of this has happened in the last ten years. One day, possibly one day comparatively soon, Valve will inevitably go out of business, and your £100-plus investment in products distributed on their system will evaporate along with them.

No they don't. Essentially each Scenario is an event in which the 4 survivors are attempting to escape the current situation. The most backstory you will get from this game is the writing on the wall (literally). This isn't meant to be taken as a story driven game. You are the story in this title. You are a survivor, and much like others who have come and gone (according to the notes scribbled on the walls in the safe house) you're just trying to escape with your life as the they did either successfully or not. This game treats you as a piece in the grand scheme, not the protagonist. I think of it like this, instead of being a Member of S.T.A.R.S. from the Resident Evil Franchise you are just one of the many (and sometimes not so lucky) survivors in the cut scenes fighting for their lives.

Sorry I mean't to quote LeMaltor with my response.

Originally Posted by LeMaltor
I played the demo chapter loaded the next one and was baffled. Does the story not carry on from chapter to chapter, do we found out how people were infected etc? It's half a game without these for me.

It's not, it's meant to be 60-90 minutes of play when you're thrown in the middle of it all. From the "movie posters" at the beginning you are playing that movie..

Even if you buy ANY software - the fact that a lot of it these days requires online activation means that a tangible CD is pretty much just as good as a download, providing you can redownload it at any time and at any location. Hence EA store = lose.

Originally Posted by NiHiLiST

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bauul
Let me guess... you weren't playing it on Expert were you?

Right, go back and play it again on Expert, and then come back to us with informed opinions. ;)

Nope I wasn't, I'll generally just play games on normal/standard first, then step up if it's too easy. I honestly had no inclination to play the demo any more but I'll give it a try on expert tonight and see how I go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmorgue
?! Wow. That's pretty harsh. Everyone has their own opinion but.. really? "Cheaply made" ?

I was expecting a lot from the game having seen and read the build up and don't remember the last time a game disappointed me so much :( We'll see after I have a play on expert.

Edit: Erm, I would play it but when I try to start the demo it's saying I need to purchase the game. Have Valve turned off the demo now the full game's released or is my Steam install having a fit?

Yes, they turned off the online multiplayer aspect when the full game was released. I wouldn't advise playing through the demo on Expert for single player, the bots really aren't good enough to back you up and absolutely refuse to take point. You'll have to take my word for it, the game gets much harder after the demo levels. I could whip through the demo on Advanced without breaking a sweat and Expert, while difficult, wasn't so hard you couldn't beat a level. On the full No Mercy campaign, I died about 10 times or so and my full team was wiped out at least 8 of those times.

Despite what the reviews say, the AI director has a talent for kicking you when you're down in the middle of a horde, and there's no greater feeling of dread when a Tank appears and you're all in middle health. If you're not constantly keeping an eye on your teammates and your collective status, the game can and will annihilate you. I have a couple friends who are FPS veterans, and they have yet to beat a campaign on Expert. The final rescue portion of the campaigns are unbelievably tough, with the computer raining down horde waves on you and barely giving you enough time to restock your ammo. It's beautifully balanced, but you need good friends to play it with. Having one guy without a mic who keeps running through his primary ammo halfway to the safe house will just slow you down, and once he's dead you're pretty much going to be overrun. Bar none the closest you will get to being in a zombie movie; can't stop to catch your breath, can't split up, can't do anything but keep moving and hope your health and ammo holds out.

Man the A.I. Director is truly unforgiveable. Lastnight we had 2 waves of zombie horde, along with a hunter, and a tank just as the APC arrive in the Blood Harvest campaign. Everyone die except myself because I just had to suck it up and leave them to die as there was too much chaos going on for old man Bill to handle.

I'm still tempted by this but I'm not sure if I should go PC or 360 however it appears the demos for both platforms are now gone anyway :(

Erm, I would play it but when I try to start the demo it's saying I need to purchase the game. Have Valve turned off the demo now the full game's released or is my Steam install having a fit?

But Steam is lovely and perfect and never makes any mistakes and is never used to mess you about like that.

Is it?

Originally Posted by Phil Rhodes
But Steam is lovely and perfect and never makes any mistakes and is never used to mess you about like that.

Is it?

Originally Posted by steveo_mcg
launch the demo from the programs files folder not from steam it still works.

:(

The demo was always limited its not the fault of Steam, just that valve chose to stop the demo on a certain date. Of course no one else runs time limited demos do they

Originally Posted by BioSniper
I'm still tempted by this but I'm not sure if I should go PC or 360 however it appears the demos for both platforms are now gone anyway :(

For me this game was clearly a PC purchase both due to the cheaper price tag, and the custom maps I have been told about. A friend of mine has already told me there is a custom map up for LFD based off one of the Team Fortress 2 maps (I think Dust Bowl).

Not to mention being able to play on privately hosted servers that are local eliminates any lag issues I could potentially have.

just out of interest what does this look like on the x360 is it pretty much like very high on the pc but less aa?

What happened to Left 1 Dead, Left 2 Dead, and Left 3 Dead?

I'm a bit of a wimp (and not really that good a player tbh) so I've only played it on Easy so far. I played through the first 2 campaigns single-player just to get the feel of them, the co-op bots are pretty useless as most people have realised and I ended up having to do almost all of the shooting.

I had a go at online co-op last night, again on easy, with 3 human players. We were waiting for the APC to arrive at the farmhouse and the director was just pure evil. It sent wave after wave of zombies at us, including 3 tanks one after another. One of the tanks made mincemeat of one of the players, so we were down to 3.

As the APC pulled up, one of the other players managed to get inside but then was incapacitated. As I tried to get off the roof and help him out (and get in the APC in the process), I was overwhelmed by zombies all around me and was also incapacitated... the last player standing was trying to help me up, as I was blasting away at the zombies surrounding us from the ground (love that).

Once I was revived, I dived into the APC and tried my best to revive the poor guy who was laying on the ground, but too many zombies were charging at me, and before the last guy could get in, who didn't seem to know where he had to go, we had to leave him behind or we'd all be dead. As I discovered, if you're incapacitated inside the APC, you don't count as a survivor, so I was the only one who got out alive - albeit with only 3 health!

Damn good fun! Can't wait to play it again tonight.

However, I seriously dread to think how many times I will die on Expert! :)

An issue was EA and Steam has finally been resolved and I can finally play my game, problem is i've got work in the morning and need to go to bed :'(

Typical bloody EA even when you actively avoid them they still bite you in the arse.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=755188

After playing for a while, I'm starting see some improvements that could be made. Hopefully some of these will get addressed in a major update.
1) The hunting rifle is beyond useless. There's just too many enemies for sniping to even begin to be a viable option, not to mention the assault rifle having near perfect aim when used semi auto.
2) The game needs an "uber" primary and "uber" secondary weapon to shake things up a bit. For a primary, I'm thinking a chainsaw. Fast and bloody kills, but overheats if you use it too long. For secondary, a machete. It could only be used with a single pistol, no knockback, and FF always on. Both of these would only be available one at a time, so no team of chainsaw wielding Ash wannabes :P

Am I only the only one disappointed with this game. The game play its self is ok but the fact that none of the campaigns seem linked in any way is kinda disappointing.

They aren't supposed to be linked. They are episodic.

Back from holiday, I got my first real taste of it last night with Hannah and Bindi. I love it to bits - but I do have to say that the finales are just ridiculous to the point of not being fun. On advanced we got hit by a succession of hunters, smokers, tanks and hordes so fast that there was no way to react.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=755188

Words fail me.

Originally Posted by CardJoe
They aren't supposed to be linked. They are episodic.

Back from holiday, I got my first real taste of it last night with Hannah and Bindi. I love it to bits - but I do have to say that the finales are just ridiculous to the point of not being fun. On advanced we got hit by a succession of hunters, smokers, tanks and hordes so fast that there was no way to react.

yeah we tried playing advanced last night. 4 of us, 3 of us fairly decent FPS players, the other a generally decent gamer. hospital level, we probably got about 2 safe houses in, and that took us nearly 2 hours.

i think our tactics probably need sorting out, we're not really ever in a formation, but suffice to say we'll be playing normal until we are any better :p

The annoying thing about it is that I can do all the levels on Advanced except for the finales and even then, with three damn good players, we can't survive for more than a few minutes. The AI just goes mental.