Originally Posted by Dreaming So, getting there, but still not there. I think you still need to have a good knowledge of computers to use it properly, whenever I've asked a simple question 'how do I get my wireless card to work' then normally the linux geeks just reply with commands :p. Why can't it be interface driven :(. Whilst the console gives you a lot of power, it is an old way of interacting with software, and it cant be that hard to just make options screen for everything that does it for you?
Well, CLI is the power of Linux... Ok, I might be considered a power user, but there is nothing easier and faster then managing and editing files through the CLI. Regular users might be affraid of this, but I can't live without it anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreaming Ubuntu has the right philosophy - it should just work.
Ubuntu is indeed moving more and more towards the regular user. Alltough I really really really hate Ubuntu, they put Linux in good light.
Originally Posted by DougEdey Why do people say that Vista eats up memory? Memory is there to be used
Time to burst another bubble :) Linux has been doing this for ages... http://glider.sin.khk.be/pix/memusage.png
Top to bottom:
Dual Xeon 2800 Server with 1GB RAM ECC as web/ftp/mail/... server
My laptop, Pentium M 1.5GHz with 512MB RAM
Gateway with 500MB RAM
Fileserver with software RAID 5 and 256MB RAM
Dual Xeon 2800 Server with 1GB RAM ECC as MySQL database server
As you see, Linux uses the unused RAM to buffer and cache data... So Vista's way is nothing new...
thanks for that great article, I can't wait to get home and try out some of those games!
I switched from Windows XP to Ubuntu 6.10 about two months ago, and haven't looked back since. Initially, I had dual boot, but then when my XP went pear shaped (hard drive failure) I didn't bother to reinstall Windows. Friends that have seen Beryl running have admitted that it shows up Aero glass for the overhyped crock of sugar that it is...
Yes, I have had some issues with it, but nothing that hasn't been resolvable by having a look on the forums. An easy to use CAD package along the lines of Alibre Xpress or SketchUp would be nice as well...
One thing - any chance of a gander at your conky.rc script?
I never said OpenGL was dead, just it seems to be updating to what Direct3D is doing these days.
Gamers should def check the latest beta of ubuntu for ease of graphics driver support.
to be honest I like linux for more retro style games and console emulators. (mainly because there is less chance of getting infected with c**p from websites). The only modern game I play on it is UT2004.
I respect your defence of the platform Glider and it has come a long way but there is still a lot to be done. I do hope games companies start to take notice. If Linux could crack the games sector they would really push into the mainstream and give ms a run for their money.
My games course at Essex tries to use linux as much as possible but even we have to give in the ms and visual studio for someof the projects. Using Linux on a ps2 is an interesting experience but it really does take a lot of effort developement wise over other platforms (mobile java games, windows).
One issue with the CLI in Linux is that it is incredibly difficult for a new user to get used to bash.
I remember when I first started messing with it, I had a hard time trying to figure out what the syntax structure was and what the available commands were. A comprehensive guide that opens the first time a user accesses the CLI would a long way to making any Linux distro more user freindly.
as my freind put it, "knowing bash is the key to the golden gates as far as linux is concerned"
Originally Posted by Bluephoenix I remember when I first started messing with it, I had a hard time trying to figure out what the syntax structure was and what the available commands were. A comprehensive guide that opens the first time a user accesses the CLI would a long way to making any Linux distro more user freindly.
A often used line in Linux (often used in an unfriendly way, but not meanth that way) TRFM (Read The <curseword> Manual>. Just type "man <command>" at a prompt and you'll mostly get detailed information about the command, including syntax and examples.
Originally Posted by Glider ... but anybody with basic PC knowledge and the ability to type into a Google input box will get 99% of the games up and running in a short timespan.
I find that hard to believe from what I've read, but alright ..as I said I might not know what I'm talknig about since I'm a linux noob
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glider
But you are correct, it takes more effort to install Windows only games in Linux, but it isn't like in the article you linked to. And having a quick read through the article I get a *shrug* feeling... Appart from getting some facts plain wrong and highlighting all the negative things, the author didn't even take the effort to look to the reasons underlying the problems he encountered, like with his networking card. Linux isn't as foolproof as Windows, that is a known fact. Some HW manufacturers (like TI) just ignore the Linux users, making it a lot harder to offer up to date support.
Well, I guess we disagree here.. I read the article very thoroughly and it struck me a very fair picture of what the average computer-savy user would do when trying things out in Linux... I mean..he digs through message boards, does several command line fixes for things ..and tries out all sorts of pieces of hardware and software...hell, at the end he even says he'll keep Ubuntu install because he likes it a lot for general productivity (besides gaming)...
but that's my *shrug* feeling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glider
Don't blame the Linux community for that, blame the HW manufacturers.
Yea, I might have come off as blaming linux, but I didn't mean to.. Linux does many things very well.. I just get the feeling that with their current state of hardware support and the lesser game development support, game-playing is better done on windows [shrugs]
i too have tried gaming in linux, and cedega does an admiral job at getting those stubborn windows programs working. but my problem lies in that alsa doesn't support my soundcard :( and oss never installs/configures properly for me in that it causes the xserver to stop working. So i am at a loss as i would love to use linux primarily (i loathe dual booting) but until there is support for my soundcard i probably won't be using linux anytime soon unfortunately. Unless of course someone whats to program a driver/module for it :)
well, i think the overall goal of this article is to say "contrary to the myth, you can in fact run some windows games on linux"
so, if you are like "i cant run linux because i play games" then you need to research your games, because your statement could be false..
this isnt a "you have to switch to linux because..." article.. its simply a "hey, just in case you were interested"
i run two machines.. i run windows on my game machine, and i do just about everything else on my ubuntu machine... mostly because i dont want to dual boot, my linux machine is not a gaming-powerhouse, and i like having the ability to multi task between two computers.
ive played with wine, and have had mixed success, but its something that takes a little effort to use...
Originally Posted by krimson well, i think the overall goal of this article is to say "contrary to the myth, you can in fact run some windows games on linux"
so, if you are like "i cant run linux because i play games" then you need to research your games, because your statement could be false..
this isnt a "you have to switch to linux because..." article.. its simply a "hey, just in case you were interested"
Thanks for in-lighting me bit-tech! I'm going to have a go at this, windows is seriously annoying me these days, and when I tried uBuntu a week months back it was a smooth as. I'd be willing to pay for Cedega if it makes BF2 work (well) but I need more feedback, is there any issues with lag or punk buster ? What kind of frame rate do people get?
Originally Posted by krimson well, i think the overall goal of this article is to say "contrary to the myth, you can in fact run some windows games on linux"
so, if you are like "i cant run linux because i play games" then you need to research your games, because your statement could be false..
this isnt a "you have to switch to linux because..." article.. its simply a "hey, just in case you were interested"
Exactly... Like I allready said, I don't want to force someone into using Linux. Linux of all things is about choice, first choice being actually to go the Linux path. I personally made that choice, and never regret it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr4nk I'd be willing to pay for Cedega if it makes BF2 work (well) but I need more feedback, is there any issues with lag or punk buster ? What kind of frame rate do people get?
Well, for £3 you can't go very wrong, but not being a FPS lover myself, I dug this up for you:
Originally Posted by Glider A often used line in Linux (often used in an unfriendly way, but not meanth that way) TRFM (Read The <curseword> Manual>. Just type "man <command>" at a prompt and you'll mostly get detailed information about the command, including syntax and examples.
I've known this for a while, ever since my freind pointed me to it, but it is still much more tedious, as it still involves someone hearing about a command before using it.
A comprehensive guide would solve that by listing the commands by order of necessity, and giving detailed info about them and the general behaviors of the CLI.
that way a new user can learn what he/she needs to learn first time without having to go trolling support wikis, and more experienced uers could turn to it to learn some new shortcuts and tricks they may not have previously known to exist.
Linux is all about suggesting/creating improvements, and these are my 2 cents. It just strikes me as an efficient solution to one of the niggling problems that makes those unfamiliar with linux cringe at the thought of using the CLI.
Originally Posted by Woodstock I think your "statement is nowhere near true" if you would like to look at this cedega database and as you will be able to see theres alot of recent releases including c&c3 and stalker
Just because games are in the database does not make them playable with Cedega. To cite your examples, C&C3 is listed as 0/5 for playability and STALKER is currently unrated. They even list the publisher for FEAR as LucasArts! Not what I would call accurate information...
Until recent years, with the advent of distributions like Ubuntu, Linux has been a poor desktop platform and an even worse gaming platform. There's nothing wrong with it, but calling it a good gaming platform, claiming that 99% of games will run well on it (non-native), is just a lie.
Originally Posted by Emon Just because games are in the database does not make them playable with Cedega. To cite your examples, C&C3 is listed as 0/5 for playability and STALKER is currently unrated. They even list the publisher for FEAR as LucasArts! Not what I would call accurate information...
Until recent years, with the advent of distributions like Ubuntu, Linux has been a poor desktop platform and an even worse gaming platform. There's nothing wrong with it, but calling it a good gaming platform, claiming that 99% of games will run well on it (non-native), is just a lie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Article page 4 My experience with Transgaming is that if they can't ensure 100% that it works, they don't list it, which is a good attitude if you ask me.
ill admit i havent tried cedega, as gaming on this antique rig is just a joke
Originally Posted by Bluephoenix A comprehensive guide would solve that by listing the commands by order of necessity, and giving detailed info about them and the general behaviors of the CLI.
that way a new user can learn what he/she needs to learn first time without having to go trolling support wikis, and more experienced uers could turn to it to learn some new shortcuts and tricks they may not have previously known to exist.
Well I actually like that idea :) and if you give me some pointers, I could edit the "What is this Linux thing" thread?
It currently holds:
Quote:
Basic commands
ls: The counterpart to DIR, gives a listing of the files in a directory.
cp <from> <to>: CoPy, copies a file from one location to an other.
mv <from> <to>: MoVe, moves a file from one location to an other
rm <file>: ReMove, deletes a file, or directory (with a switch)
mkdir <dir>: MaKe DIRectories
rmdir <dir>: ReMove DIRectories (only empty ones)
ln <source> <destination>: makes links between files
nano <file>: Opens nano (a editor program). If you specify a filename, it will open that file
mount <device> <mountpoint>: attaches (mounts) a device to the tree, at the specified mountpoint
umount <mountpoint>: detaches (unmounts) a device from the tree
ifconfig: to configure a network interface
iwconfig: to configure a wireless network interface
Advanced commands (more dangerous)
fdisk <device>: a well known hard drive partitioning tool
cfdisk: a more user friendly interface to fdisk
mke2fs <partiton>: creates a ext2 filesystem on a partiton
mkswap <partition>: creates the swap-filesystem on a partition
...
[note] Due to the well organised system of (user)right in a Linux system (much better then in Windows) it might be required to be root (=administrator) to execute some commands.
[note 2] Due to bash completion, you don't have to type every command and path out full. If you press <tab> BASH will suggest (or give if there's only 1 choise) the rest of the path/commandname.
I don't really have anything to add at the moment, but then I've only been using Linux in dual-boot for about 9 months; and am still learning a lot about it every day.
Though I'm sure some of those people with far more knowledge than I have of the OS could make the idea very useful.
I love the article!
Especially considering that on my next box, I'm staying away from windows.
I don't feel inclined to purchase a bloated copy of vista (or at least until SP1 is realeased.) Or a new copy of XP Pro.
I do want to point out one little inaccuracy in the very last sentence, on the first page of the article.
Quote:
. . . of games that work through (mis)called emulators, like Wine and Cedega.
It's more of an API that windows applications can talk to. To draw those "OK" buttons and error dialogs, rather than having the programmer draw everything from scratch.
Cheers on the great article. This should make more people realize that linux is becoming an excellent desktop replacement.
EDIT: uh oh... I just noticed the word "(mis)called" just before emulators... Maybe I should learn to read before I post.
It should be noted that all of Introversion's games run under linux natively, not just Uplink (Defcon for linux to be released shortly ....), and all 3 of their games are well worth the meager amount they charge.
Another good looking game I found out about yesterday (haven't tried the demo yet) is Beyond the Red Line, a game set in the Battlestar Galactica universe (the new one, not the old one); it's based on the Freespace2 engine and they have demos up for Linux, Mac and Windows.
Although I've tried linux I couldn't get on with it (at the end of the day, it *isnt* as easy to use and configure as windows for the average person),
i disagree with that to an extent, its only hard to use for people because they are used to windows and that change is hard for people. Most of the time, i see that people use my linux PC, then say its "rubbish" just because something doesnt work in the same way that it does on windows.
I do agree that some driver support is flaky (some wireless chipsets, newer hardware released without enough hardware specifications and "black box" graphics drivers, although they are getting better). The driver support is like that because some hardware manufacturers ignore linux and just write windows drivers, this means linux developers have to reverse engineer and figure out how to get the hardware to work.
On the server side, a lot of stuff runs linux all around the world and a lot of server hardware has very good driver support, its just that it lags behind on the desktop because of the large amount of hardware and peripherals from all the manufacturers. In my opinion, its amazing that the driver support is as good as it is, it's due to the persistance of the comunity and a few companies that see benefit in helping linux, whatever their motives are.
Driver support is a lot better, even compared to a couple of years ago, but its a bit of a mission to convince hardware developers to support other platforms on the basis that they might sell more units.
I use Kubuntu on my laptop at home, it serves me very well and i do play a couple of games on it through wine (Pharaoh and Theme Hospital). I know they arent modern games, but its all the laptop can handle :)
ugh, just did an XP install on a system. That plus the driver etc install felt like it took forever. Putting Mepis Linux on the same system was fast and easy and everything "just worked".
Comments 51 to 75 of 78
http://glider.sin.khk.be/pix/memusage.png
Top to bottom:
Dual Xeon 2800 Server with 1GB RAM ECC as web/ftp/mail/... server
My laptop, Pentium M 1.5GHz with 512MB RAM
Gateway with 500MB RAM
Fileserver with software RAID 5 and 256MB RAM
Dual Xeon 2800 Server with 1GB RAM ECC as MySQL database server
As you see, Linux uses the unused RAM to buffer and cache data... So Vista's way is nothing new...
EDIT: Damn, my first double post :(
thanks for that great article, I can't wait to get home and try out some of those games!
I switched from Windows XP to Ubuntu 6.10 about two months ago, and haven't looked back since. Initially, I had dual boot, but then when my XP went pear shaped (hard drive failure) I didn't bother to reinstall Windows. Friends that have seen Beryl running have admitted that it shows up Aero glass for the overhyped crock of sugar that it is...
Yes, I have had some issues with it, but nothing that hasn't been resolvable by having a look on the forums. An easy to use CAD package along the lines of Alibre Xpress or SketchUp would be nice as well...
One thing - any chance of a gander at your conky.rc script?
Gamers should def check the latest beta of ubuntu for ease of graphics driver support.
to be honest I like linux for more retro style games and console emulators. (mainly because there is less chance of getting infected with c**p from websites). The only modern game I play on it is UT2004.
I respect your defence of the platform Glider and it has come a long way but there is still a lot to be done. I do hope games companies start to take notice. If Linux could crack the games sector they would really push into the mainstream and give ms a run for their money.
My games course at Essex tries to use linux as much as possible but even we have to give in the ms and visual studio for someof the projects. Using Linux on a ps2 is an interesting experience but it really does take a lot of effort developement wise over other platforms (mobile java games, windows).
I remember when I first started messing with it, I had a hard time trying to figure out what the syntax structure was and what the available commands were. A comprehensive guide that opens the first time a user accesses the CLI would a long way to making any Linux distro more user freindly.
as my freind put it, "knowing bash is the key to the golden gates as far as linux is concerned"
http://www.tuxgames.com/
Might be worth a look around if you are thinking of going linux and gaming
I find that hard to believe from what I've read, but alright ..as I said I might not know what I'm talknig about since I'm a linux noob
Well, I guess we disagree here.. I read the article very thoroughly and it struck me a very fair picture of what the average computer-savy user would do when trying things out in Linux... I mean..he digs through message boards, does several command line fixes for things ..and tries out all sorts of pieces of hardware and software...hell, at the end he even says he'll keep Ubuntu install because he likes it a lot for general productivity (besides gaming)...
but that's my *shrug* feeling
Yea, I might have come off as blaming linux, but I didn't mean to.. Linux does many things very well.. I just get the feeling that with their current state of hardware support and the lesser game development support, game-playing is better done on windows [shrugs]
so, if you are like "i cant run linux because i play games" then you need to research your games, because your statement could be false..
this isnt a "you have to switch to linux because..." article.. its simply a "hey, just in case you were interested"
i run two machines.. i run windows on my game machine, and i do just about everything else on my ubuntu machine... mostly because i dont want to dual boot, my linux machine is not a gaming-powerhouse, and i like having the ability to multi task between two computers.
ive played with wine, and have had mixed success, but its something that takes a little effort to use...
agreed
http://transgaming.org/gamesdb/games/view.mhtml?game_id=3618
http://downloads.transgaming.com/files/cedega-5.2-releasenotes.html#battlefield_2
http://cedegawiki.sweetleafstudios.com/wiki/Battlefield_2
And even the free Wine does BF2, so try that first ;)
http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?iVersionId=3438
I've known this for a while, ever since my freind pointed me to it, but it is still much more tedious, as it still involves someone hearing about a command before using it.
A comprehensive guide would solve that by listing the commands by order of necessity, and giving detailed info about them and the general behaviors of the CLI.
that way a new user can learn what he/she needs to learn first time without having to go trolling support wikis, and more experienced uers could turn to it to learn some new shortcuts and tricks they may not have previously known to exist.
Linux is all about suggesting/creating improvements, and these are my 2 cents. It just strikes me as an efficient solution to one of the niggling problems that makes those unfamiliar with linux cringe at the thought of using the CLI.
Until recent years, with the advent of distributions like Ubuntu, Linux has been a poor desktop platform and an even worse gaming platform. There's nothing wrong with it, but calling it a good gaming platform, claiming that 99% of games will run well on it (non-native), is just a lie.
It currently holds:
PM me with what you'd like to change/added... :D
Though I'm sure some of those people with far more knowledge than I have of the OS could make the idea very useful.
Especially considering that on my next box, I'm staying away from windows.
I don't feel inclined to purchase a bloated copy of vista (or at least until SP1 is realeased.) Or a new copy of XP Pro.
I do want to point out one little inaccuracy in the very last sentence, on the first page of the article.
Wine is NOT an emulator. See here.
Cheers on the great article. This should make more people realize that linux is becoming an excellent desktop replacement.
EDIT: uh oh... I just noticed the word "(mis)called" just before emulators... Maybe I should learn to read before I post.
Another good looking game I found out about yesterday (haven't tried the demo yet) is Beyond the Red Line, a game set in the Battlestar Galactica universe (the new one, not the old one); it's based on the Freespace2 engine and they have demos up for Linux, Mac and Windows.
i disagree with that to an extent, its only hard to use for people because they are used to windows and that change is hard for people. Most of the time, i see that people use my linux PC, then say its "rubbish" just because something doesnt work in the same way that it does on windows.
I do agree that some driver support is flaky (some wireless chipsets, newer hardware released without enough hardware specifications and "black box" graphics drivers, although they are getting better). The driver support is like that because some hardware manufacturers ignore linux and just write windows drivers, this means linux developers have to reverse engineer and figure out how to get the hardware to work.
On the server side, a lot of stuff runs linux all around the world and a lot of server hardware has very good driver support, its just that it lags behind on the desktop because of the large amount of hardware and peripherals from all the manufacturers. In my opinion, its amazing that the driver support is as good as it is, it's due to the persistance of the comunity and a few companies that see benefit in helping linux, whatever their motives are.
Driver support is a lot better, even compared to a couple of years ago, but its a bit of a mission to convince hardware developers to support other platforms on the basis that they might sell more units.
I use Kubuntu on my laptop at home, it serves me very well and i do play a couple of games on it through wine (Pharaoh and Theme Hospital). I know they arent modern games, but its all the laptop can handle :)