Ghys
its not "CONSOLIFICATION " persay its the corporate casual cash in rush mentality that is...they they would no water down and make buggy broken games things would be a lot better.
Zippy, I read that topic on those forums. Im too lazy to register so I can post. This is marginally OT for THIS thread, but it seems like it's a dead thread and Im just going to bump it with my post, lol. Admin can delete this post if they like, as Im sure they would even without my pretentiousness in giving them leave to do so :D
speaking of pretentious, a "bill of rights" for us gamers is, IMO, pretentious. It boils down to simple economics, if we arent happy, we act with our wallets. Dont buy from EA if you dont appreciate what the company is doing. How many gamers hated EA for how they handled BF1942 and BF:V? especially after SWOWW2 and BF:V released.. DICE: Canada was a horrible studio, they released crap product, and EA bought out Trauma studios because a popular mod castrated their Xpack sales, especially after SWOWW2 was totally trash. So they paid Trauma half a million bucks to stop making the game. Then they hired some of Trauma's staff to help make BF2. They also seemed to effectively c*ckblock modders from modding BF2 well enough to release their mods before the xpack and both booster packs had finished their primary sales rush. They also held back on many BF2 features and engine upgrades and shoveled them into BF2 part 2, BF2142. MY guess is that BF1942 did so well because of the mod scene. Vanilla BF2 was ok, but the availability of mods is what made the game survive so long. BFV's only sales aside from hype were because of the potential of mods, I personally only bought BFV for POE. But BF1942 had so many popular and successful mods, more so than BFV, BF2 and BF2142 combined and then doubled. Half Life suffered the same fate, and Valve and Sierra embraced the mod scene from what I've seen. BF:BC is on console only, because consoles are much less likely to be modded. The game will have it's initial playability, and yeah EA is riding solely on hype for initial sales, and since DLC has been gutted by angry reactions (DLC is a crock if you ask me, corporations are going to destroy gaming, it doesn't take very much effort compared to developing a whole game to design a car or rifle or shotgun, a model, a skin, and 5 minutes coding, yet they charge atleast a buck per, when the game sells for $40-$50, gran turismo 5 will have probably close to 1K cars, and well over 20 tracks, but I doubt DLC will charge $.01 per car, probably something like $3 if EA had control of the series.) But EA will hope their game does well enough so that gamers will pay to play expanded content in the form of expacks and booster packs. If a company like Black Sand Studios could mod PS3 and Xbox 360 games and release the mods free, Im sure EA would throw a hissy fit. My guess is, BFBC isnt on PC and the mentioned next PC installment of the series will be held off, because EA/DICE cant prevent modding yet. They release solid engines with a ton of potential, but the replayability isnt there without mods. Anyways, what Im getting at, is that EA is blatantly cash cowing Battlefield, without any regard for customers, EA is known as the popculture producer, they make a great deal of the movie to videogame type games, they make yearly Sports games for the popular sports games, they rode on the coattails of Fast and Furious series with NFSC and NFSPS, they purchased the rights to put Porche in games so that noone else could. EA is capitalism in the gaming universe, more so than Sony, Nintendo, or Microsoft, much less Ubisoft, Sierra, ID Software, Activision, Epic, Atari, Namco, Sega, etc. If everyone who enjoys battlefield that hates EA's method STOPPED buying BF games, Im sure EA would just toss BF in the trash and think that the sandbox combat/FPS is just a dead fad and pursue the next fad.
That is our RIGHT as a consumer. It's presumptuous to think we can tell them how to make their games and handle the sales. Gaming is a luxury, a privilege, not a RIGHT. The Bill of Rights does not include "freedom to play videogames how we want." This is the kind of thinking that has lead to the neo-communist-pretending-to-be-capitalist government we have. Florida and many other states, I state florida because I live here, has a law that bans smoking in any public establishment that makes 10% or more of its sales from food. Basically, if you go to a sports bar that sells wings and burgers, you have to smoke outside. True and fair economics would allow the owner of such establishments to decide, and if they allowed smoking, the non-smokers could CHOOSE not to go there to eat/drink, and then the OWNER would decide if losing that set of customers is worth in the continued use of smoking in his establishment. Removing yourself from your group/date/tv/meal to step outside for a cigarette is an inconvenience. Not being able to smoke while playing the arcade games, pool, darts, or what have you, is undesireable. Having to go outside to smoke when weather isnt fair is a big discomfort. The city of Abilene in the state of Texas has completely banned smoking within 20 feet of any public establishment. You cant even smoke in the bars, because of whiners who BELIEVE it is their RIGHT to be able to go whereever they want and NEVER have to deal with smoke. They can choose to go to a different bar or restaurant. The bars in abilene have lost quite a bit of business to people that will go to bars outside of city limits or simply drink at a residence with friends. That's economics at work. Forcing rules that not everyone cares to abide by for a LUXURY is not a solution, it just further ruins the experience. Im sure bar owners would make it illegal to drink anywhere but at bars, restaurants would love to make it illegal to eat at home, stouffer's would love to make it illegal to prepare a meal on your own, cab companies would like to make it illegal to drive yourself, etc etc. As im sure Midway and Namco would love to make gaming only legal in arcades. EA would probably love to stick to consoles, especially after the mod scene "raped" their sales in the battlefield PC market. Console gamers dont expect as much out of a game as PC gamers. For so long PCs offered so much more than consoles, better graphics, downloadable fixes or addons, cheats were easier back in the day for SP games, and multiplayer. Until the proliferation of broadband and the power of computer chips was manageable to use with consoles, Mplayer of more than usually 2 (4 with N64 and up to 8 with PS1 and PS2 on a handful of games) was unheard of away from PC. AI can always be figured out and outsmarted, but human opponents can learn and continue to be challenging, but where the most potent AI is perfect and nigh-undefeatable unless a blindspot is found and focused on, even the best human player makes mistakes and has off days, but can also adapt and overcome it's weaknesses. AI are still not up to par with gamers. Hence why Halo, CoD, BF, etc do so well. Even Madden has a big online community, playing against players without giving up your screen is "hawt." EA now has consoles that they can throw their sandbox first person combat with (compared to most console games) high numbers of players. Im surprised Blizzard, EA:Mythic, and Sony havent made a new attempt at bringing MMORPGs back to consoles. Im sure the PS3 and Xbox360 could handle WoW, WAR, CoH, EQ2, etc. The one hinderance I perceive is that console gamers are probably reluctant to pay monthly fees for a game they already purchased, especially when all the other games are free online, because they dont understand how MMOs have to keep up to date with support and content and community control and running their own servers and everything else that keeps MMOs separate from FPS, sports, and fighting genre games.
Anyways, act with your wallet. THAT is your right.
That said, I do personally dislike how things are going, and I know many others do. What I said above is in reply to the complaints against piracy and other things that stop developers from getting money for a good product, like 10 yr old kids spending their money on spiderman 4 instead of trying a new revolutionary game that is by all standards great, just lacking hype. This whole thread has been about, at its core, what is hurting developers from getting money. Blizzard no longer receives money from me because of griefers. EA:Mythic no longer receives money from me because of two-boxers(or more) and griefers. I will not play counterstrike because of cheaters. Blackballing hurts game sales.
The problem isnt the customers, its the corporations you developers cater to. You works are appreciated, but you push out unfinished products because your financial backer wants to meet a date for his investors and get the kids just getting out of school for summer, or because its near christmas time, or because a big competitor with a lot of hype will be releasing at the same time, whatever. Their politics over money is what causes gamers to not pay. if BF3 flops, EA will blame DICE or whatever company develops it, even if it's because the community hates EA and their business practice, and probably dump the lead designers. The fundamental cause of most complaints is the producers. They bought you so they have the right to do whatever they want with your baby. It's not art to them it's a product. Not saying you dev guys should, but Id just like to point out that some of the highest quality work ive seen in games was in the mod scene for the battlefield franchise. Look at the success of Desert Combat, Battlefield Pirates, Forgotten Hope, etc. Newer age mods like Point of Existence, AIX, USI and PR. These mods put thousands of man hours into using pretty much just the engine, and then released it for free. The quality in these mods was never diluted to meet a release date, when asked they say "when it's ready." They dont limit their content so producers can break it up into booster packs and expansions and milk it for every dime they can get. Im just waiting for the day when someone designs an engine and releases it free to the community, and allows the mod developers to run amok with it, and provides real support to develop them. OH NOES111! free high quality games!? I can see the outrage now. Shame it wont be available for consoles eh? lol.
Originally Posted by haterade (extra long, well written rant)
quite true.
I will agree with your point that some of the best quality games I have ever played have all been mods of existing games, and not commercially released games.
standouts: FS2:SCP, AIX, Desert Combat, FS2004/FSX (with about 20GB of mods combined together)
the best I ever encountered was the Thirdwire series: wings over europe and wings over vietnam. after a quick check of the folder size its now sitting at 30GB, original game size: 2GB or less
Comments 51 to 54 of 54
DEATH TO CONSOLIFICATION
:D
I would add something more constructive but meh, I don't feel like it
its not "CONSOLIFICATION " persay its the corporate casual cash in rush mentality that is...they they would no water down and make buggy broken games things would be a lot better.
speaking of pretentious, a "bill of rights" for us gamers is, IMO, pretentious. It boils down to simple economics, if we arent happy, we act with our wallets. Dont buy from EA if you dont appreciate what the company is doing. How many gamers hated EA for how they handled BF1942 and BF:V? especially after SWOWW2 and BF:V released.. DICE: Canada was a horrible studio, they released crap product, and EA bought out Trauma studios because a popular mod castrated their Xpack sales, especially after SWOWW2 was totally trash. So they paid Trauma half a million bucks to stop making the game. Then they hired some of Trauma's staff to help make BF2. They also seemed to effectively c*ckblock modders from modding BF2 well enough to release their mods before the xpack and both booster packs had finished their primary sales rush. They also held back on many BF2 features and engine upgrades and shoveled them into BF2 part 2, BF2142. MY guess is that BF1942 did so well because of the mod scene. Vanilla BF2 was ok, but the availability of mods is what made the game survive so long. BFV's only sales aside from hype were because of the potential of mods, I personally only bought BFV for POE. But BF1942 had so many popular and successful mods, more so than BFV, BF2 and BF2142 combined and then doubled. Half Life suffered the same fate, and Valve and Sierra embraced the mod scene from what I've seen. BF:BC is on console only, because consoles are much less likely to be modded. The game will have it's initial playability, and yeah EA is riding solely on hype for initial sales, and since DLC has been gutted by angry reactions (DLC is a crock if you ask me, corporations are going to destroy gaming, it doesn't take very much effort compared to developing a whole game to design a car or rifle or shotgun, a model, a skin, and 5 minutes coding, yet they charge atleast a buck per, when the game sells for $40-$50, gran turismo 5 will have probably close to 1K cars, and well over 20 tracks, but I doubt DLC will charge $.01 per car, probably something like $3 if EA had control of the series.) But EA will hope their game does well enough so that gamers will pay to play expanded content in the form of expacks and booster packs. If a company like Black Sand Studios could mod PS3 and Xbox 360 games and release the mods free, Im sure EA would throw a hissy fit. My guess is, BFBC isnt on PC and the mentioned next PC installment of the series will be held off, because EA/DICE cant prevent modding yet. They release solid engines with a ton of potential, but the replayability isnt there without mods. Anyways, what Im getting at, is that EA is blatantly cash cowing Battlefield, without any regard for customers, EA is known as the popculture producer, they make a great deal of the movie to videogame type games, they make yearly Sports games for the popular sports games, they rode on the coattails of Fast and Furious series with NFSC and NFSPS, they purchased the rights to put Porche in games so that noone else could. EA is capitalism in the gaming universe, more so than Sony, Nintendo, or Microsoft, much less Ubisoft, Sierra, ID Software, Activision, Epic, Atari, Namco, Sega, etc. If everyone who enjoys battlefield that hates EA's method STOPPED buying BF games, Im sure EA would just toss BF in the trash and think that the sandbox combat/FPS is just a dead fad and pursue the next fad.
That is our RIGHT as a consumer. It's presumptuous to think we can tell them how to make their games and handle the sales. Gaming is a luxury, a privilege, not a RIGHT. The Bill of Rights does not include "freedom to play videogames how we want." This is the kind of thinking that has lead to the neo-communist-pretending-to-be-capitalist government we have. Florida and many other states, I state florida because I live here, has a law that bans smoking in any public establishment that makes 10% or more of its sales from food. Basically, if you go to a sports bar that sells wings and burgers, you have to smoke outside. True and fair economics would allow the owner of such establishments to decide, and if they allowed smoking, the non-smokers could CHOOSE not to go there to eat/drink, and then the OWNER would decide if losing that set of customers is worth in the continued use of smoking in his establishment. Removing yourself from your group/date/tv/meal to step outside for a cigarette is an inconvenience. Not being able to smoke while playing the arcade games, pool, darts, or what have you, is undesireable. Having to go outside to smoke when weather isnt fair is a big discomfort. The city of Abilene in the state of Texas has completely banned smoking within 20 feet of any public establishment. You cant even smoke in the bars, because of whiners who BELIEVE it is their RIGHT to be able to go whereever they want and NEVER have to deal with smoke. They can choose to go to a different bar or restaurant. The bars in abilene have lost quite a bit of business to people that will go to bars outside of city limits or simply drink at a residence with friends. That's economics at work. Forcing rules that not everyone cares to abide by for a LUXURY is not a solution, it just further ruins the experience. Im sure bar owners would make it illegal to drink anywhere but at bars, restaurants would love to make it illegal to eat at home, stouffer's would love to make it illegal to prepare a meal on your own, cab companies would like to make it illegal to drive yourself, etc etc. As im sure Midway and Namco would love to make gaming only legal in arcades. EA would probably love to stick to consoles, especially after the mod scene "raped" their sales in the battlefield PC market. Console gamers dont expect as much out of a game as PC gamers. For so long PCs offered so much more than consoles, better graphics, downloadable fixes or addons, cheats were easier back in the day for SP games, and multiplayer. Until the proliferation of broadband and the power of computer chips was manageable to use with consoles, Mplayer of more than usually 2 (4 with N64 and up to 8 with PS1 and PS2 on a handful of games) was unheard of away from PC. AI can always be figured out and outsmarted, but human opponents can learn and continue to be challenging, but where the most potent AI is perfect and nigh-undefeatable unless a blindspot is found and focused on, even the best human player makes mistakes and has off days, but can also adapt and overcome it's weaknesses. AI are still not up to par with gamers. Hence why Halo, CoD, BF, etc do so well. Even Madden has a big online community, playing against players without giving up your screen is "hawt." EA now has consoles that they can throw their sandbox first person combat with (compared to most console games) high numbers of players. Im surprised Blizzard, EA:Mythic, and Sony havent made a new attempt at bringing MMORPGs back to consoles. Im sure the PS3 and Xbox360 could handle WoW, WAR, CoH, EQ2, etc. The one hinderance I perceive is that console gamers are probably reluctant to pay monthly fees for a game they already purchased, especially when all the other games are free online, because they dont understand how MMOs have to keep up to date with support and content and community control and running their own servers and everything else that keeps MMOs separate from FPS, sports, and fighting genre games.
Anyways, act with your wallet. THAT is your right.
That said, I do personally dislike how things are going, and I know many others do. What I said above is in reply to the complaints against piracy and other things that stop developers from getting money for a good product, like 10 yr old kids spending their money on spiderman 4 instead of trying a new revolutionary game that is by all standards great, just lacking hype. This whole thread has been about, at its core, what is hurting developers from getting money. Blizzard no longer receives money from me because of griefers. EA:Mythic no longer receives money from me because of two-boxers(or more) and griefers. I will not play counterstrike because of cheaters. Blackballing hurts game sales.
The problem isnt the customers, its the corporations you developers cater to. You works are appreciated, but you push out unfinished products because your financial backer wants to meet a date for his investors and get the kids just getting out of school for summer, or because its near christmas time, or because a big competitor with a lot of hype will be releasing at the same time, whatever. Their politics over money is what causes gamers to not pay. if BF3 flops, EA will blame DICE or whatever company develops it, even if it's because the community hates EA and their business practice, and probably dump the lead designers. The fundamental cause of most complaints is the producers. They bought you so they have the right to do whatever they want with your baby. It's not art to them it's a product. Not saying you dev guys should, but Id just like to point out that some of the highest quality work ive seen in games was in the mod scene for the battlefield franchise. Look at the success of Desert Combat, Battlefield Pirates, Forgotten Hope, etc. Newer age mods like Point of Existence, AIX, USI and PR. These mods put thousands of man hours into using pretty much just the engine, and then released it for free. The quality in these mods was never diluted to meet a release date, when asked they say "when it's ready." They dont limit their content so producers can break it up into booster packs and expansions and milk it for every dime they can get. Im just waiting for the day when someone designs an engine and releases it free to the community, and allows the mod developers to run amok with it, and provides real support to develop them. OH NOES111! free high quality games!? I can see the outrage now. Shame it wont be available for consoles eh? lol.
quite true.
I will agree with your point that some of the best quality games I have ever played have all been mods of existing games, and not commercially released games.
standouts: FS2:SCP, AIX, Desert Combat, FS2004/FSX (with about 20GB of mods combined together)
the best I ever encountered was the Thirdwire series: wings over europe and wings over vietnam. after a quick check of the folder size its now sitting at 30GB, original game size: 2GB or less