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Blame Nintendo!

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DougEdey 3rd November 2007, 11:04 Quote
Back in the day Nintendo had their seal of quality which was meant to prevent the market being saturated with atrocious games, that added with the higher cost for cartridge based games meant that not a lot of companies could afford to get into the market and so had to have better games to stand above the rest.

Cheaper media costs mean that it's cheaper to publish a game. But higher costs of development quickly offset this and piracy does take away from it (for everyone that downloads a cracked game, how many people do you think they give it to?) so I'm not surprised about the fact that there are losses.

And EA have bought up companies left-right-centre and they haven't released their big hitters, Bioware & Mass Effect for example so that will look like a significant loss but come the next financial reports they will probably make a lot of money.
g3n3tiX 3rd November 2007, 11:50 Quote
I think Valve is also on the green side, monetarily speaking...Steam means they get all the game's price, and even a cut for games they only sell through it. I know they must have huge bandwidth cost, but it must still be profitable.
It's true that the only successful games on the Wii are the Nintendo ones...
oasked 3rd November 2007, 11:53 Quote
Publishers do need to get their act together when it comes to the Wii. Luckily I haven't had much time to play games, so Zelda and a couple of GC games have kept me going, but there has really been very little that's worth playing on the system. Even the simpler games that are aimed at a non-gamer demographic are usually awful.

The only games that interest me are the Nintendo-developed AAA titles, like Metroid Prime 3 and Mario Galaxy (pre-ordered), both of which are/will be amazing. I just wish that other publishers would produce something for this great little system. :)
Dira 3rd November 2007, 12:05 Quote
Well, what I see as the main problem is the over and over repeating of games. As mentioned I don't understand why ppl would go and buy the anual release of fifa?
I rather enjoy a new idea then better graphics. Many great looking games lack the right feeling when it comes to controlling and how they effect us emotional. Lots of games have been pushed so far with graphics that they have almost forgotten what is most important. THE USERS! If playing the game doesn't feel natural and everything feels circumstantial. Then not many will be willing to play it. With such a large market as it is today and with games beeing reported about every flaw on the internet it is a rough market. Some developers have taken chances and have been praised.

What I lack at the market atm is the next step. When will we no longer have to be running with "w" and aim with the "mouse"? My hope is for more natural controlls. In that way the wii has done well. But I still miss alot of needs and possibility with todays controlls.

The perfect game is a game that feels very natural to you. You feel in controll most of the time and there are few limits to what you can do. The future will let us know how good or bad wii rly is. Will we see "the" perfect game? A game where we get to use the controll and system to it's limit and not just look silly. Alot of nice games beeing released and coming on wii soon. So atleast we have hope...
Dira 3rd November 2007, 12:08 Quote
Saying that wii is the only succesful and profitable wouild be wrong. Blizzard still get lots of cash every month for WoW. With the upcoming SC2 release. I see blizzard as one of the strongest developers with good economics.
Krikkit 3rd November 2007, 12:35 Quote
Take away the cashcow which has become WoW and they'd be down in the doldrums with everyone else mate.
vts 3rd November 2007, 14:52 Quote
I dont know about you, but i'm glad for once that Nintendo, who have tried to give us something innovative in gaming, are beating back those who seem to churn out the same worthless roster updated games every year.

I'm not saying the Wii is perfect by any means, but it is definetley a step in the right direction.
devdevil85 3rd November 2007, 15:25 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by vts
I'm not saying the Wii is perfect by any means, but it is definetley a step in the right direction.
I don't see how 360/PS3 haven't shown innovation themselves? That's what's confusing me....For example, I see the PS3 with it's SIXAXIS controller and the Playstation Eye to be (what I would consider) innovative.....

Either way, I see Joe's point (I think): game developers need to publish games that aim at each individual system's strong points rather than just porting games over and then trying to make it look like they also developed it for another system.....

The Wii/Guitar Hero/Rock Band should show, alone, that people are wanting/expecting innovation and new ideas in the market place and as with those examples they have been significantly rewarded.....
Hells_Bliss 3rd November 2007, 15:29 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krikkit
Take away the cashcow which has become WoW and they'd be down in the doldrums with everyone else mate.

worse, they haven't released a new game in years. if WoW died tomorrow, bliz would be bankrupt.

As for EA, Nintendo probably did help killing their profits, they're making games for the PS3 which only a very small percentage owns. And they definately shot themselves in the foot when they released MOHAB for PC. XBOX ports ftl.

IMO there will be good from this years bad results. The publishers will start (hopefully) to demand better content, better support, and a stable game at release. Look at the wildly successful games this year, like you said WIC, BioShock, Orangebox. You know Sierra isn't hurting at the moment, neither is ValVe
CardJoe 3rd November 2007, 16:50 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by devdevil85
I don't see how 360/PS3 haven't shown innovation themselves? That's what's confusing me....For example, I see the PS3 with it's SIXAXIS controller and the Playstation Eye to be (what I would consider) innovative.....

Firstly, the camera attachment idea was old with the Gameboy :P. Secondly, I'm not talking purely hardware innovation here (motion sensing has been around for ages) but the innovation is marketting, design and appeal which has seen the Wii tackle new and emerging markets. It's not just what you make - it's how you sell it.
devdevil85 3rd November 2007, 17:09 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by CardJoe
Firstly, the camera attachment idea was old with the Gameboy :P. Secondly, I'm not talking purely hardware innovation here (motion sensing has been around for ages) but the innovation is marketting, design and appeal which has seen the Wii tackle new and emerging markets. It's not just what you make - it's how you sell it.
I hear yah Joe, now I understand what the "innovation" is that you're referring to....
Solidus 3rd November 2007, 17:55 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krikkit
Take away the cashcow which has become WoW and they'd be down in the doldrums with everyone else mate.

I must disagree!

Iv been following blizzard for a few years since Warcraft 3 ROC and with Starcraft on the horizon, even if they didnt have WOW, Starcraft would generate huge revenue for them and you need a legit version to play that online - Its the sequel to possibly the greatest RTS of all time, i think it will do well!

As a brand, blizzard has always made quality games, WOW cost allot in R & D but they have made it back by the bucket loads and any other mmporg they make will no doubt be a success, they have branded their products really well.
completemadness 3rd November 2007, 18:07 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hells_Bliss
worse, they haven't released a new game in years. if WoW died tomorrow, bliz would be bankrupt.
I'm pretty sure the revenue so far from wow would keep blizzard going for a long time
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solidus
I must disagree!

Iv been following blizzard for a few years since Warcraft 3 ROC and with Starcraft on the horizon, even if they didnt have WOW, Starcraft would generate huge revenue for them and you need a legit version to play that online - Its the sequel to possibly the greatest RTS of all time, i think it will do well!

As a brand, blizzard has always made quality games, WOW cost allot in R & D but they have made it back by the bucket loads and any other mmporg they make will no doubt be a success, they have branded their products really well.
I disagree with you tbh, Warcraft 3 is what, 5 years old?

Starcraft may make them some money, but if they didn't have WoW they wouldn't have survived long enough to make it to here

Anyway, this point is very moot, Blizzard do have WoW, and they are making lots of money, and their providing a game that millions of people actually want
boiled_elephant 3rd November 2007, 18:10 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hells_Bliss
worse, they haven't released a new game in years. if WoW died tomorrow, bliz would be bankrupt.

We can only hope. Let's face it, as great as WoW is, it shouldn't have carried them this far. It's disgusting that they've sat back and raked in so much from a single title, and I fear the more significant impact of WoW will be that their company has gone stale in the meantime, and lost its ability to have a finger on the pulse of the gaming industry.
(Translation: I reckon their next independent title will be ass pancake, because they haven't been paying attention.)
vts 3rd November 2007, 19:22 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by devdevil85
Quote:
Originally Posted by vts
I'm not saying the Wii is perfect by any means, but it is definetley a step in the right direction.
I don't see how 360/PS3 haven't shown innovation themselves? That's what's confusing me....For example, I see the PS3 with it's SIXAXIS controller and the Playstation Eye to be (what I would consider) innovative.....

Either way, I see Joe's point (I think): game developers need to publish games that aim at each individual system's strong points rather than just porting games over and then trying to make it look like they also developed it for another system.....

The Wii/Guitar Hero/Rock Band should show, alone, that people are wanting/expecting innovation and new ideas in the market place and as with those examples they have been significantly rewarded.....

I'm not saying that 360 and ps3 haven't shown innovation at all. (actually come to think of it, what has the ps3 got that is new and innovative?). the fact that Nintendo originally had motion controls on the NES back in the 80's(probably before you were born), but couldn't market it because of price point, and the way it had been done.... my point was that I'm glad somewhere along the lines that someone is trying to change the way gaming is, rather than churning out the same old crap.

Hell the Atari 2600 had motion sensing controls. Built by Amiga....Guru meditation anyone?
boiled_elephant 3rd November 2007, 19:40 Quote
Regarding the Wii's motion sensitivity:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yahtzee
Nintendo is the oldest contestant still in the console race, and it seems they've gotten bored of the usual 'Brick-with-buttonpads-attached-with-string' model and are trying to mix things up with a fancy Motion Sensitive system of control. A bold effort, perhaps, to do away with the grind of random button-mashing, but in practise it's really only replacing it with random stick-waggling.

I would've optimistically disagreed with this verdict until I saw my friend playing Dragonball Z on the wii, a game which genuinely incorprates the motion sensitivity properly and is most easily beaten by waving the controller madly in all directions.
jezmck 3rd November 2007, 21:44 Quote
the comments above all seem a little too thought-out and mature.
Quote:
get in to - girls
tee hee.

that better?
Kipman725 3rd November 2007, 23:56 Quote
the future of gaming is sex. Currently media has a very strange attitude to it and I think games will be the first to change this. Bring on the hot chicks.
benjamyn 4th November 2007, 01:38 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kipman725
the future of gaming is sex. Currently media has a very strange attitude to it and I think games will be the first to change this. Bring on the hot chicks.


This is true. (stereo)typically gamers don't come by women much unless they are relatives, co-workers/classmates or pixellated :)
Kipman725 4th November 2007, 11:03 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by benjamyn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kipman725
the future of gaming is sex. Currently media has a very strange attitude to it and I think games will be the first to change this. Bring on the hot chicks.


This is true. (stereo)typically gamers don't come by women much unless they are relatives, co-workers/classmates or pixellated :)

if you include casual gaming most gamers are female therfore sex in games should be target at them and not the sweaty basment dewlers of sterotyping yore. Suprisingly this means hot chicks... that are marginaly less hot than the player so they feel good about themselves. Therfore the ps3 with it's eye is ideal as it can assess the hotness of the player and then edit the main female characters to be slightly less hot. Women are tipicaly very shallow and like to be the best looking person in a room.
Bungle 4th November 2007, 11:18 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by boiled_elephant
We can only hope. Let's face it, as great as WoW is, it shouldn't have carried them this far. It's disgusting that they've sat back and raked in so much from a single title, and I fear the more significant impact of WoW will be that their company has gone stale in the meantime, and lost its ability to have a finger on the pulse of the gaming industry.
(Translation: I reckon their next independent title will be ass pancake, because they haven't been paying attention.)
That statement makes no sense. WOW was a run away success because blizzard discovered the secret to creating an addictive MMORPG. The reason it's lasted this long is testament to the great design. "It's disgusting that they've sat back and raked in so much from a single title"? Wake up pal, developers are in this "game" to make money believe it or not. Nobody has forced the cash into the Blizzard coffers, people have "voted" with their wallets" and they deserve every bit of success due to clever marketing and game design. As for Blizzard losing their "finger on the pulse" of the gaming industry, I'm not sure how you've come to that conclusion but pretty much every title I've bought from Blizzard has been a big success for them. They own some of the biggest franchises in the game industry, Starcraft, Diablo and world of warcraft. Blizzard are one of the few developers who know how to make games for gamers.
g3n3tiX 4th November 2007, 11:19 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hells_Bliss
You know Sierra isn't hurting at the moment, neither is ValVe
Sierra/Vivendi is long separated from Valve, now EA publish the physical media (e.g. Orange Box boxes and dvd.)

I like the PS3 although it lacks in the games department, and I think the sixaxis is not really usable : in motorstorm for example it's awful, maybe only in Flow. That's a cool game. Maybe the best on the PS3 so far !
xPaladin 4th November 2007, 15:36 Quote
It's interesting that nobody is targeting the folks in the media industries trying to have games made for what essentially amounts to blatant advertising and IP milking.

A lot of the games that get produced for the gamer crowd are games ideas that are sold by media companies and released before a major movie release for no other reason than to milk the movie's IP. Star Wars Episode 3, Happy Feet, and practically every Disney release for the past few years (!) come to mind. Most movie-based games aren't worth playing and unsurprisingly, most game-based movies aren't worth watching. The whole movie and game industry marriage is to blame for a lot of woes in both industries, though I think it hurts the game industry much more. They'd be better off ending that relationship and allowing both mediums to focus on their own industries.

Meanwhile, while all the big IPs are choking up the time and profits of teams of big name publishers/developers, the innovation comes from the game-oriented studios such as Irrational/2K, Bioware/Pandemic, Blizzard, etc. Then there's folks like those at id, Valve, Epic Megagames, etc scoring their own contracts on the side for engine licensing while making their own games. So what if they take their time making games? Their games are good enough that I'll only start to be bored of their current iteration by the time the next one comes out.

Perhaps these "individual" (or non-subsidized as of yet...) companies are doing just fine, but the bigger companies are struggling. Well. the fault really lies on the upper management of the gaming companies for taking up such idiotic contracts in the first place because they're obviously not making any money on them in the short or long run. They're more concerned about up-front contracts and paying the bills now more than quality. Sure, the potential earnings and initial payoff might be worthwhile, but in the end they wind up alienating their collective fanbases... an action that has pretty much come back to bite them in the ass. Good for them! I'll continue to support my chosen developers with my dollars regardless of platform.

God save the telefrag.
devdevil85 4th November 2007, 16:37 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by vts
(actually come to think of it, what has the ps3 got that is new and innovative?).
are you serious?

But, like Joe said w/ the Wii, it's all in how Nintendo marketed the console and fully utilized their in-house games w/ it and tbh I think MS did a good job w/ the 360 and Sony is still slowly filling the hole they dug w/ theirs.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by vts
I'm glad somewhere along the lines that someone is trying to change the way gaming is, rather than churning out the same old crap.
Why should Microsoft or Sony "change" or 'fix' something that isn't broken? I can sure as hell tell you I wouldn't want to play 99.9% of 360/PS3 games like I do on the Wii, now maybe a wireless gun on FPS's would be neat, but idk how that would work. I also still like having a realistic wheel for driving and stuff like that, and I think SIXAXIS will be a great addition to a lot of the new games (looking around corners, jumping, etc. w/o hitting any buttons); anyways you get my drift.

Nintendo on the other hand had a basic/elementary console back w/ Gamecube and they knew that with the 360/PS3 offering loads upon loads of new tech, yet pretty much owning the casual gaming market that they could (and should) take the next step and go with a wireless motion-sensing controller that would seperate their console from the rest by offering something different.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vts
Hell the Atari 2600 had motion sensing controls. Built by Amiga....Guru meditation anyone?
Kind of like how Joe said the Eye is an old idea, I guess this would make the Wii-mote old tech as well, right? /sarcasm
boiled_elephant 4th November 2007, 16:49 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungle
That statement makes no sense. WOW was a run away success because blizzard discovered the secret to creating an addictive MMORPG. The reason it's lasted this long is testament to the great design.

"Discovered", past tense, being the emphasis here. See below:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungle
As for Blizzard losing their "finger on the pulse" of the gaming industry, I'm not sure how you've come to that conclusion but pretty much every title I've bought from Blizzard has been a big success for them.

I arrived at this conclusion following a WoW discussion thread in which most proponents (or former proponents) of WoW thought the Burning Crusade expansion was ass on a plate (paraphrased, obviously). General satisfaction with WoW was overwhelming; with the first exp. pack, moderate; with the latest, luke-warm. This trend led me to the conclusion that they are losing sight of what pleases gamers.

Short version: granted, they found a winning formula, but they seem incapable of refreshing it lately.

Also, I take it as a mark against the company that the social climate of their games generates people as rude and affrontational as you. Then again, this may be a consequence of humans all being mouthy idiots, rather than Blizzard's success at managing an online game.
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