All this debate about your computer PSU and how they consume energy is useless.
Did you take a look to a datacenter ??
Server and mainframe, have 2K, 4K , 8K PSU with multiple connection for redundancy, everything run at maximum for performance, and the server is never stopped.
And they totally don't care about saving energy, yes there is new HP server and IBM who consume less with energy saving activated, but even with that server will always run and never be stopped and the saving mode consumption is quite high even with that.
There is server here in the hosting room (and is a very little hosting room with little server), and some of them have three PSU consuming 2Kw each 24/24.
But take a mainframe with four or five PSU 2/3 KW each, plus the PSU dedicated for the disk bay (4 PSU 3K each) and double all of that for clustering and you will start to see where its go.
So your poor 1Kw PSU running half a day (or even 24/24 if you are a geek) will be so ridiculous in comparison of a clustered mainframe running 24/24 all years at full performance for example that.
Its like believing the USA its the only producer of carbon, people forgot most of the time the Chinese friend who don't give a **** about ecology.
(don't make me wrong, i don't say USA are innocent angels)
But power grinding computer and ecology is something not compatible even with a good driver.
fleole: Agreed. It's like somebody recycling a bottle, but the guy next door throwing away twice as many. But does that mean that we shouldn't give a crap, just because someone out there is worse at it? No, everybody needs to be aware of their effects on the environment.
I recycle all my old electronics and printer cartridges. But I'm not in the position (at the moment) to recycle more. In a couple of months I'll be moving to a new house and so I'll be able to recycle a lot of things. In doing so I'm hoping to reduce the effect of running my computers 24/7.
(I do folding at home 24/7 so catch 22, but it's worth it. (Join the team))
I like the way that Tims saying that Power Consumption should come down (and looks primarily at AMD/ATi) but they have now got new ads for ATi Crossfire!
Originally Posted by DougEdey I like the way that Tims saying that Power Consumption should come down (and looks primarily at AMD/ATi) but they have now got new ads for ATi Crossfire!
Originally Posted by [USRF]Obiwan Why can they fit a 8800 into a freaking laptop and desktop users must buy bigger cases for a 8800 graca that is the size of a laptop?
Marketing, that's why. The same reason a Radeon X1650Pro has a bigger heat sink than a Radeon 9800Pro, despite running 3 Watts cooler.
How about system makers taking on Apple-esque products? Only need a PC for web-browsing and email? How about a 'laptop' without a screen or keyboard that plugs into your telly? Low cost, low power consumption and no need for a monitor.
Sony marketing a PS3/PC hybrid. The PS3 has the capabilites. It can already run Linux. Combine games and work?
I read all the posts here.. NOT A SINGLE PERSON noted about the HANDY feature that has been implemented since the day of ATX and my old K6-2 450 called STAND BY.
A few clicks and poof your 1kw drawing system is pulling less than 10w (Kill-a-watt confirmed on my SLI rig) and a quick tap of the power button and poof! A system instantly back up and running where you left off.
you want that fast PC y our going to pay for it in power usage.
An argument about making computers more power-eco-friendly is a farce. The whole human involvement in global warming is a political scam (look at Al Gore! ...nutcase...). Global warming would continue to happen even if we cut our emissions to 0 today. The best thing we can do is prepare. Yes I live in the US, but dont label me as a energy hungry nut or not caring about green house gasses. My family just bought a new family car that gets 36mpg highway and 26 city. As a family we work very hard at conserving power too. Our business shop has R-50 in the walls and R-50 in the ceiling. Power usage is a concern to many Americans.
An argument about making computers more power-eco-friendly is a farce. The whole human involvement in global warming is a political scam (look at Al Gore! ...nutcase...). Global warming would continue to happen even if we cut our emissions to 0 today.
Jesus dude, that's it! After billions spent on research by proponents of both sides and by actual scientists, after hundreds of thousands of man hours spent studying all the available data, after all the inconclusive findings and reports coming out on both sides of the arguement, you've somehow managed to cut through all the crap and deliver the answer.
Well, that, or you're picking sides based upon preference. But no doubt it's the first, right?
I think power consumption is an issue with regards to consumer-level stuff (for example, I'd like it if my 2.4ghz single core box was running a little cooler, saving me some cash and not making as much noise), but the type of person who is spending $500 on a brand new top of the line video card probably doesn't mind spending a bit more on power.
I'm sure they could find ways to make their high-end products cooler, but will it really make a difference? Less than 1% of people actually own the high-end computer stuff. Most people have the $500 Dell special.
It's in the midline stuff where power consumption is an issue.
Let's use another car analogy. In the midsize family sedan market, fuel economy is a very important issue to most customers. But in the $50,000 sports car market, it doesn't really make a difference.
While I agree with our point, it's like saying the Corvette should be designed for better gas mileage. People who can't afford to pay for gas don't spend $50k on a car.
On the same token, someone who is spending several grand on a top-end gaming rig can probably afford to spend more on the power bills. If they wanted something that was cheap to run, they would have a $500 Dell special.
hmm i can give an example of BMW. They make faster engines but with better fuel economy then the engine before that. Infact its a statement they made themselfs.
to go even further on the car approach. What if the US gasoline prices sudenly are european prices. (like 1.46 euro for 1 liter unleaded) So for 1 gallon they must pay 7.40 dollar.
How fast do you think, will the american people ditch their v8 bullcatchers pickups and buy fuel economic "rice" or european cars?
The same is with energy consuming consumer electronics. Over here the electricity bills are rising every year. My bill at the moment is 290 euro a month (that is 391 dollars ) I have a plasma tv and a 24/7 watercooled pc rigg and the usual household stuff like everyone else.
So am i wrong to think about some savings that can be made in the energy hardware is using?
just because you shelled out for a high end piece of equipment, why should that mean you have to pay more for power, more for a bigger PSU, more for more fans to cool all of this extra stuff
Just because you go out an buy a $50k sports car, OK your not too fussed it uses more fuel, but you are fussed that it doesn't guzzle fuel so fast that the USA cant steal it fast enough ;)
So while i expect high end components to use more power, i don't think its reasonable to expect that the power requirements are completely off the wall
Originally Posted by [USRF]Obiwan hmm i can give an example of BMW. They make faster engines but with better fuel economy then the engine before that. Infact its a statement they made themselfs.
to go even further on the car approach. What if the US gasoline prices sudenly are european prices. (like 1.46 euro for 1 liter unleaded) So for 1 gallon they must pay 7.40 dollar.
How fast do you think, will the american people ditch their v8 bullcatchers pickups and buy fuel economic "rice" or european cars?
The same is with energy consuming consumer electronics. Over here the electricity bills are rising every year. My bill at the moment is 290 euro a month (that is 391 dollars ) I have a plasma tv and a 24/7 watercooled pc rigg and the usual household stuff like everyone else.
So am i wrong to think about some savings that can be made in the energy hardware is using?
It felt like the article was rushed through; although the main point is clear, the body isn't too interesting, and then kinda irrelevant save the planet sentences are randomly thrown around. Usually your writing style is much better I think, I don't know maybe it just me.
For me I do like to recycle... I recycle to keep Earth nature and it's beutty.
I really do not beleive in Global Warming. Its just a stage that Earth is passing through like the middle age period. Maybe C02 that we product accelerate a bit the effect, but it's something that cannot be stop. Don't think for a second that I say that as I won't be affected. 'cause in case you don't know, I live in a little tiny island called Montreal in Quebec Canada, where we should be under water.
For me it's just some political propaganda that touch world wide. Soon (already started here), instead of saying to the industries that pollute and use a high-quantity of electricity each minute to invest in new machinery and techniques to use less energy, the government will take advantage of this, and tax us even more. Like: tax on the weight of the garbage your trow away, if you use a garbage compactor you get tax discount, buy a Hybird car get xx mount of money off, tax our water, increase electrical bill, ban light bulb (btw, do you know that the energy efficient light bulb has a high concentration of mercury? Well it does, so now it pollutes our water and kill animals), and I can go on with that... well I got more to say but now we go into conspiracy and such, and change the subject.
For desktop, there is no problem with power consumption, for laptop it's IS. It's not normal that a tablet PC doesn't even have 2-3 hours of battery on a heavy 6cell battery. All laptops, tablet PC's should have around 5-7 hours of battery life. I mean isn't that the point, to make it PORTABLE and MOBILE.
For now all I see for Tablet PC's are 2-3 hours of battery life (and that is IF you disable a couple of devices), most models without an optical drive, which is ridiculous, horrible sound card, descent single core CPU (very rare to see dual core), slow hdd, and finally a video card that can't even play a video smoothly, thanks to Intel integrated graphics team that does great work. Now this is for tablet PC's and convertibles ones.
For notebook it is LESS the case, but it's still existent. Why can't we have a decent GPU, that can play some sort of game, and play videos including DVD playback compatible, and not waist so much battery life?!? In same cases I know that Nvidia or ATI video card are better and uses less battery life then Intel crap, but companies still go with crappy Intel... (maybe because Intel pays them or something))
Can we please dispense with the whole anti-US sentiment?
Seriously. We have completely different lifestyles and economy than you guys do.
Stop pulling all this holier-than-thou crap about how much smaller and more efficient cars you have.
What I'm trying to get across is that it's not always possible to apply general concepts to a very extreme fringe of something. Across the board, yeah, efficiency is a big issue, but not so much with the really over-the-top make-any-and-all-possible-sacrifices-for-speed crowd.
Originally Posted by Gordy I run my main machine on single 120w psu. It runs all the games I want on a 24in display yet does need to treble my electricity bill to do it.
...
"For what its worth its a intel core duo laptop chip with 2gb of dd2 and a sapphire x800 gto2 with full sized hard disc and a laptop dvd writer."
I gotta look up power use on the x800 but if that's 120W @ full load
Quote:
Originally Posted by [USRF]Obiwan ...
So bit-people, please test this, you got all those ridiculous psu's laying arround anyway. Call the test: "Do you really need a 1000watt psu?"
There are resources scattered around the net with this info and while It would be nice to have a central location for it all things change so fast and manufacturers make so many variations (_/X/GT/GTX/XT/GTO/GS/... plus various overclocked versions plus, plus die shrinks without name changes, plus...) that it's a lot of work for one site to keep the all data up to date - I once found a site that had this but last I looked it was sadly quite outdated.
Still, doesn't sound like a bad idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by specofdust ... back since the days of CPU's that barely needed even a passive heatsink....
I remember it almost being a scandal when Intel started using heatsinks. (anyone else remember the bit about the guy designing a new toaster? :) )
Quote:
Originally Posted by [USRF]Obiwan ...
Why can they fit a 8800 into a freaking laptop and desktop users must buy bigger cases for a 8800 graca that is the size of a laptop? I dont get it... really i dont ;)...
:) ;) - though of course any label on a laptop GPU seems to be an exaggeration at best.
Originally Posted by Altron Can we please dispense with the whole anti-US sentiment?
Seriously. We have completely different lifestyles and economy than you guys do.
Stop pulling all this holier-than-thou crap about how much smaller and more efficient cars you have.
Although I'll grant you that average distances in the US mean that cars have to be able to travel a fair stretch, I don't see how that should relate to less efficient fuel economy. Quite the opposite, in fact. For long distances across, say, the Nevada deserts or the forrests in Washington you need lean-burning, highly reliable Diesel engines if anything.
I don't think that differences in "lifestyle" and "economy" are a valid argument. Both are a matter of choice and can be changed --at some personal sacrifice. Whether people are prepared to make it, is another matter... I don't think that in this regard Americans are any more indolent and selfish than the rest of the world, but that like the rest of us, they will start looking at the fuel economic aspects of their next car only when fuel prices are starting to bite.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Altron What I'm trying to get across is that it's not always possible to apply general concepts to a very extreme fringe of something. Across the board, yeah, efficiency is a big issue, but not so much with the really over-the-top make-any-and-all-possible-sacrifices-for-speed crowd.
True, the high-end crowd will simply care more about performance than about economy. However even the Ferrari crowd finds an F1 racing car too impractical...
Isn't alot of this 1Kw PSU stuff ect. a case of 'my p*nis is bigger than yours?'
Basically, no-one NEEDS dual 8800 Ultra's. One on a 30" is fine for basically every game out at the mo. Also, most low end C2D's will perform fine in gaming situations ect.
I think the main issue is people will always want bragging rights, hence economy has been pushed to the back of the agenda, while 'mine is better than yours' is number one on the list.
(God, Im already sounding like a column righter. :( )
Originally Posted by GoodBytes For me I do like to recycle... I recycle to keep Earth nature and it's beutty.
The steps for environmental friendliness go
Reduce
Re-Use
Recycle
All this recycling **** is bollocks, quite frankly there is tonnes of packaging out there right now that's just a blatant waste of space
Companies could do a lot more for the environment by making their products with less packaging, used more efficiently, sure when you have reduced as much as you can, and re-used as much as you can, then is the time to recycle
To quote a recent statistic i saw "We Recycled 60% of our rubbish last month"
Well whoopty doo, did you reduce the amount of rubbish you used at all though, because that's what really counts
Well as consumers you can only do so much, but changing packaging of companies is for governments to legislate against. You can't just say "they're not doing it so I'm not!"
To contradict the article somewhat, the OVERWHELMING majority of devices available on the market today include power saving modes but these must be activated by software. If the total extent of nVidia or ATI's power management strategy extends to enabling and disabling 3D mode they have a lot to answer for. There are always spare bus cycles when the CPU/GPU core could idle and allow the DMA to shuttle data around. Then when the terminal count interrupt is received you wake up, bravo, a full data set, let's get on with it.
Long story short, nVidia, ATi and Microsoft could probably do rather a lot for my electricity bill by optimising their drivers and software interfaces to stop banging the cards at full speed all the time.
Comments 51 to 75 of 84
Did you take a look to a datacenter ??
Server and mainframe, have 2K, 4K , 8K PSU with multiple connection for redundancy, everything run at maximum for performance, and the server is never stopped.
And they totally don't care about saving energy, yes there is new HP server and IBM who consume less with energy saving activated, but even with that server will always run and never be stopped and the saving mode consumption is quite high even with that.
There is server here in the hosting room (and is a very little hosting room with little server), and some of them have three PSU consuming 2Kw each 24/24.
But take a mainframe with four or five PSU 2/3 KW each, plus the PSU dedicated for the disk bay (4 PSU 3K each) and double all of that for clustering and you will start to see where its go.
So your poor 1Kw PSU running half a day (or even 24/24 if you are a geek) will be so ridiculous in comparison of a clustered mainframe running 24/24 all years at full performance for example that.
Its like believing the USA its the only producer of carbon, people forgot most of the time the Chinese friend who don't give a **** about ecology.
(don't make me wrong, i don't say USA are innocent angels)
But power grinding computer and ecology is something not compatible even with a good driver.
I recycle all my old electronics and printer cartridges. But I'm not in the position (at the moment) to recycle more. In a couple of months I'll be moving to a new house and so I'll be able to recycle a lot of things. In doing so I'm hoping to reduce the effect of running my computers 24/7.
(I do folding at home 24/7 so catch 22, but it's worth it. (Join the team))
I don't sell ads, I just publish content.
Sony marketing a PS3/PC hybrid. The PS3 has the capabilites. It can already run Linux. Combine games and work?
A few clicks and poof your 1kw drawing system is pulling less than 10w (Kill-a-watt confirmed on my SLI rig) and a quick tap of the power button and poof! A system instantly back up and running where you left off.
you want that fast PC y our going to pay for it in power usage.
An argument about making computers more power-eco-friendly is a farce. The whole human involvement in global warming is a political scam (look at Al Gore! ...nutcase...). Global warming would continue to happen even if we cut our emissions to 0 today. The best thing we can do is prepare. Yes I live in the US, but dont label me as a energy hungry nut or not caring about green house gasses. My family just bought a new family car that gets 36mpg highway and 26 city. As a family we work very hard at conserving power too. Our business shop has R-50 in the walls and R-50 in the ceiling. Power usage is a concern to many Americans.
Jesus dude, that's it! After billions spent on research by proponents of both sides and by actual scientists, after hundreds of thousands of man hours spent studying all the available data, after all the inconclusive findings and reports coming out on both sides of the arguement, you've somehow managed to cut through all the crap and deliver the answer.
Well, that, or you're picking sides based upon preference. But no doubt it's the first, right?
I'm sure they could find ways to make their high-end products cooler, but will it really make a difference? Less than 1% of people actually own the high-end computer stuff. Most people have the $500 Dell special.
It's in the midline stuff where power consumption is an issue.
Let's use another car analogy. In the midsize family sedan market, fuel economy is a very important issue to most customers. But in the $50,000 sports car market, it doesn't really make a difference.
While I agree with our point, it's like saying the Corvette should be designed for better gas mileage. People who can't afford to pay for gas don't spend $50k on a car.
On the same token, someone who is spending several grand on a top-end gaming rig can probably afford to spend more on the power bills. If they wanted something that was cheap to run, they would have a $500 Dell special.
to go even further on the car approach. What if the US gasoline prices sudenly are european prices. (like 1.46 euro for 1 liter unleaded) So for 1 gallon they must pay 7.40 dollar.
How fast do you think, will the american people ditch their v8 bullcatchers pickups and buy fuel economic "rice" or european cars?
The same is with energy consuming consumer electronics. Over here the electricity bills are rising every year. My bill at the moment is 290 euro a month (that is 391 dollars ) I have a plasma tv and a 24/7 watercooled pc rigg and the usual household stuff like everyone else.
So am i wrong to think about some savings that can be made in the energy hardware is using?
just because you shelled out for a high end piece of equipment, why should that mean you have to pay more for power, more for a bigger PSU, more for more fans to cool all of this extra stuff
Just because you go out an buy a $50k sports car, OK your not too fussed it uses more fuel, but you are fussed that it doesn't guzzle fuel so fast that the USA cant steal it fast enough ;)
So while i expect high end components to use more power, i don't think its reasonable to expect that the power requirements are completely off the wall
Google Peak Oil and scare yourself silly
I really do not beleive in Global Warming. Its just a stage that Earth is passing through like the middle age period. Maybe C02 that we product accelerate a bit the effect, but it's something that cannot be stop. Don't think for a second that I say that as I won't be affected. 'cause in case you don't know, I live in a little tiny island called Montreal in Quebec Canada, where we should be under water.
For me it's just some political propaganda that touch world wide. Soon (already started here), instead of saying to the industries that pollute and use a high-quantity of electricity each minute to invest in new machinery and techniques to use less energy, the government will take advantage of this, and tax us even more. Like: tax on the weight of the garbage your trow away, if you use a garbage compactor you get tax discount, buy a Hybird car get xx mount of money off, tax our water, increase electrical bill, ban light bulb (btw, do you know that the energy efficient light bulb has a high concentration of mercury? Well it does, so now it pollutes our water and kill animals), and I can go on with that... well I got more to say but now we go into conspiracy and such, and change the subject.
For desktop, there is no problem with power consumption, for laptop it's IS. It's not normal that a tablet PC doesn't even have 2-3 hours of battery on a heavy 6cell battery. All laptops, tablet PC's should have around 5-7 hours of battery life. I mean isn't that the point, to make it PORTABLE and MOBILE.
For now all I see for Tablet PC's are 2-3 hours of battery life (and that is IF you disable a couple of devices), most models without an optical drive, which is ridiculous, horrible sound card, descent single core CPU (very rare to see dual core), slow hdd, and finally a video card that can't even play a video smoothly, thanks to Intel integrated graphics team that does great work. Now this is for tablet PC's and convertibles ones.
For notebook it is LESS the case, but it's still existent. Why can't we have a decent GPU, that can play some sort of game, and play videos including DVD playback compatible, and not waist so much battery life?!? In same cases I know that Nvidia or ATI video card are better and uses less battery life then Intel crap, but companies still go with crappy Intel... (maybe because Intel pays them or something))
Seriously. We have completely different lifestyles and economy than you guys do.
Stop pulling all this holier-than-thou crap about how much smaller and more efficient cars you have.
What I'm trying to get across is that it's not always possible to apply general concepts to a very extreme fringe of something. Across the board, yeah, efficiency is a big issue, but not so much with the really over-the-top make-any-and-all-possible-sacrifices-for-speed crowd.
Still, doesn't sound like a bad idea.
I don't think that differences in "lifestyle" and "economy" are a valid argument. Both are a matter of choice and can be changed --at some personal sacrifice. Whether people are prepared to make it, is another matter... I don't think that in this regard Americans are any more indolent and selfish than the rest of the world, but that like the rest of us, they will start looking at the fuel economic aspects of their next car only when fuel prices are starting to bite.
Basically, no-one NEEDS dual 8800 Ultra's. One on a 30" is fine for basically every game out at the mo. Also, most low end C2D's will perform fine in gaming situations ect.
I think the main issue is people will always want bragging rights, hence economy has been pushed to the back of the agenda, while 'mine is better than yours' is number one on the list.
(God, Im already sounding like a column righter. :( )
Everything was going fine untill those three (3) spelling mistakes!
Now you're down to two, come on Mankz, use that expensive education!
Just becuase I go to an expensive school doesn't mean I can't make basic spelling and grammar mistakes .
All this recycling **** is bollocks, quite frankly there is tonnes of packaging out there right now that's just a blatant waste of space
Companies could do a lot more for the environment by making their products with less packaging, used more efficiently, sure when you have reduced as much as you can, and re-used as much as you can, then is the time to recycle
To quote a recent statistic i saw "We Recycled 60% of our rubbish last month"
Well whoopty doo, did you reduce the amount of rubbish you used at all though, because that's what really counts
[/Off Topic]
Long story short, nVidia, ATi and Microsoft could probably do rather a lot for my electricity bill by optimising their drivers and software interfaces to stop banging the cards at full speed all the time.