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Loving games to death

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Cabe 5th May 2007, 11:09 Quote
Excellent piece, frabjously is my new favorite word.

for more Monkey Island fanboyism (and other games of the era)

http://www.pressplayontape.com/?pid=download
Ramble 5th May 2007, 11:34 Quote
Interesting article.
I find that the best way is to either ignore them, or smash their argument up into so many little pieces that it's too sharp to pick back up again.
Gaming fanboys are one thing but OS and hardware fanboys are in another league (I think).

Welcome to Bit-Tech anyway.
rupbert 5th May 2007, 12:05 Quote
Welcome to Bit-Tech Joe :)
crash32953295@msn. 5th May 2007, 12:18 Quote
Good article interesting read into your thoughts,

Oh and Welcome to Bit-Tech
Kamakazie! 5th May 2007, 13:23 Quote
Yeah, good little introductory article.

I dislike fanboys as much as the next person, but i do think that there is a time and place for them. For example, without all the Sonic fans to buy the last few awful 3D offerings (save Secret Rings because its pretty good), there wouldn't have been a Sonic left to appear in Sonic Rush, which is probably my favourite game on the DS. So I have fanboys to thank for that one.
Undoubtedly they often do more harm than good, just it is not all bad.

I don't think referring to a group that is constructive enough to put their love for a game down on paper in a creative way is a good example though. If stuff like that is well written, then many people can enjoy it without having the whole fanboy last rites read to them in every thread on every gaming forum.
DXR_13KE 5th May 2007, 13:43 Quote
very good article. congrats and welcome.

as for fanboys, i just love them, i love the way i can laugh at the stupid things they say, the "proof" and the "FACTS" that X console is better than Y, even saying they are comparing apples with apples when they say "the cpu from X console is 3 times faster than Y" even if they don't get their facts strait and that the GPU from Y is much more advanced than the GPU from X.

i am a fanboy to, i am for truth and knowledge, when someone gives me some information i analise it against my own information and read about it everywhere i can so i can update my knowledge. :D
kenco_uk 5th May 2007, 14:05 Quote
All said and done though, PSP rawkses :)
cpemma 5th May 2007, 16:14 Quote
"Aggressive fanboys" is tautological - by definition, a fanboy is a fundamentalist; a plain fan wouldn't try to ram his views down your throat and despise all opposing views. Black & White thinking is the biggest danger a civilisation faces, and we have it in spades, in every field.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Everything2
fundamentalists are a subtype of evangelicals and militancy is crucial to their outlook.

So the effect of fanboys is out of all proportion to their actual numbers, they're the ones who make most noise.

Many fanboy gamers are already psychologically confused; they're forced into using the works of the Great Satan M$ to play their holy game.
g3n3tiX 5th May 2007, 16:31 Quote
I'm a Bit Tech fanboy.

bienvenue sur bit tech joe !!
bilbothebaggins 5th May 2007, 17:30 Quote
I'm a bit unsure if I correctly understand the semantics of the term 'fanboy', but anyway ... I think the problem seems not to be
Quote:
Originally Posted by article
Loving games to death
but rather in the rants and hate-tirades against other products/games.
If someone tells me enthusiastically why "their" thing is great this can be a very positive thing. (Even if I find some arguments ridiculous or/and don't agree.) The problem is when people try to tell you why "their" thing is greatest ... because - well if something is the greatest it obviously is better that all that other "crap" out there, isn't it ... :(

Whatever ... me rambling again ... :)

-btb-
Morphine-Kitty 5th May 2007, 20:34 Quote
I completely agree with you on that Joe. Fanboys have just been pushing others away. While Gamespot is my favourite site for finding information on new games (don't flame me saying I'm biased :p), I'm finding the fanboyism in the comments to be so rampant I can't even handle to read them anymore. Like you said, they're just pushing others away, damaging the company they love too much.

Anyway this fanboyism rise works out, good article and welcome to the forums Joe.
Neogumbercules 6th May 2007, 03:16 Quote
I might come across as a PS3 fanboy (although my Wii and 360 might think otherwise) but really I just like to play the devil's advocate around here and try to defend the underdog. I'm usually "that one guy" on the forums that posts mostly optimistically when it comes to the PS3. I gotta admit, I'm fighting on the losing team, it seems, sometimes.

I don't even own a PS3. :)

I got into it with that PS3 fanboy loser CardJoe linked to one day on the Gamefaqs forums. It was pretty funny. I support the industry and try to find positives with all of the players, I have never said PS3 (or Wii, or 360) was the best system. I like em all!
Nature 6th May 2007, 10:32 Quote
Wellcome to the Bit-tech, Sir Joe.

"So; I'm Joe, I studied English Language and Creative Writing at University and I'm"


at University?
Nezodon 6th May 2007, 14:40 Quote
Good article, as a player of MMO's i see alot of this type of thing and people will sometimes excuses the inexcusable because of unyielding support to the team who are working the the game.
Cthippo 6th May 2007, 19:32 Quote
Welcome aboard, Joe. Don't let the fanbois get to you.
Spaceraver 6th May 2007, 22:58 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpemma
"Aggressive fanboys" is tautological - by definition, a fanboy is a fundamentalist; a plain fan wouldn't try to ram his views down your throat and despise all opposing views. Black & White thinking is the biggest danger a civilisation faces, and we have it in spades, in every field.

So the effect of fanboys is out of all proportion to their actual numbers, they're the ones who make most noise.

Many fanboy gamers are already psychologically confused; they're forced into using the works of the Great Satan M$ to play their holy game.

That would make a Christian or Muslim fundamentalist a fanboy too? j/k

Oh, welcome to the forums Joe. Loved the article, and I just remembered where a friend of mine might store the monkey island games he and i played as kids.. :D
Bauul 7th May 2007, 00:57 Quote
Nice article! The thing is fanboys don't operate in a logical fashion in the same way we do: when I proclaim I prefer XP to OSX, am I stating XP is a vastly superiour OS and OSX sux? No, just preference, but fanboys cling to unsubstantiated opinions with venom and strength of mind that one can't explain logically.

Football fans have been known to kill for their team. Why? From a logical point of view, this is unknown. Unless you are a player or have some fested financial interest in a team, one football team doing well over another has no effect on your life what-so-ever, but people are still scarilly, scarilly pationate about their favourite team. It's this same blind mentallity that you see in many fanboys. I suffer from it myself. Doom 3 or HL2? Doom 3 every time for me. Is it a better game? Lol, no, not at all, but I've a fondness for the game that stems from the originals that transcends logic or rationality, I'm a big D3 fan simply because I am. It's self perpetuating, and the more someone informs me I shouldn't be because D3 sucks, the more I'm inclined to argue with them and stick up for it.

You only really ever see fanboys when their particular love is being badmouthed. People are more likely to make a point and go on about something only when it is being threatened, telling a PS3 fanboy the PS3 is amazing is unlikely to yeild anywhere near the level of responce a more negative remark would do. Unfortunately this is part of human nature: I've seen couples refuse to break up even though they really should simply because no-one approves of them. Arguing with a fanboy is just fanning the flames, and you're never going to win because you can't reason their argument out, it isn't based on reason. Best course of action is to ignore them, and hopefully they'll go away.

I think you'll always get fanboys, and certain things will attract fanboys (namely things that appear very good, though actually aren't under the hood). I also think that we'll never be rid of them, and only a fanboy can realise themselves the error of their ways, arguing with them will simply make them more stubborn and resistant to change. That said, the D3 engine is better than the Source engine, regardless of anything found in reality. So nerr.

PS: Remind me to buy Joe a drink the next time I see him for linking a post of mine into his article.
*does a little dance*

*feels foolish and stops*
serial_ 7th May 2007, 10:16 Quote
Dr. Strangelove 7th May 2007, 14:47 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpemma
"... by definition, a fanboy is a fundamentalist...
Does this mean we can "report" fanboys to some american anti terrorist org, and get fanboy-land added to the axes of evil? :D

Anyway good article Joe and welcome
devdevil85 7th May 2007, 19:53 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by CardJoe
True, but when the other two major console competitors have BC and the most expensive console (PS3) doesn't then you have to knock points off for that.

This is a statement written by Mr. CardJoe a few weeks ago that, as you can see/read, is so utterly false and biased that not even he will want to acknowledge it now that he has written an article outlining fanboys and their irrational sense of fact vs. opinion. Can anyone say "irony"?

For those of you that are confused on why I felt it was worth using his statement: the PS3 has always had backwards compatibility with PS1 games from the start, just not the ability to download them and play them on the PS3/PSP. According to his statement he said that the PS3 never had BC with PS1 games until the firmware update and that was a checkmark against them in terms of his personal rating.

Also, another thing I found funny. Of all of the things that he could have written: where he was born, how he became involved with bit-tech, what sparked his interest in technology in general (not just Monkey Island, atleast I wouldn't have expected that to be the main catalyst), where he thinks he will be in the next few years, etc., he somehow found a way to stick the PS3 in there and say that he almost
Quote:
Originally Posted by CardJoe
went so far as to try and write a piece outlining what I believe may be the downfall of one of the best consoles ever released.

There is a difference between a 'fanboy' and a person that has logical/ethical reasoning to stick up for a product or a cause that has been misrepresented not just through people's opinions, but also through falsified facts. I know that I am one of the reasons for his wanting to write about fanboys. The funny thing is that I do not and have not owned a Sony product for over 4 years and I do not own a PS2 or a PS3 or a PSP or whatever, so I have left no room open for anyone to say that I am just trying to make myself feel better for purchasing a PS3.

This leads me to my last statement:

Joe, you must agree that you, yourself, are a fanboy. Do you agree? I mean you are just as bad for trying to put the PS3 down as someone trying to stick up for it (like for example Me). Does anyone agree with that statement?

I am not one for arguing or trying to start a conflict, but when people like Joe start saying things that are completely based on opinion and then he tries putting them off to be fact, well that's when I will start putting my foot down and start saying something to either prove it's truth/reasoning or it's fallacy.

I believe every console has it's advantages and uniqueness, and if one person can't utilize it's features or let alone afford it, then that's their situation, but that doesn't make it right to put it down. I want every console to be given it's right place and time and I feel the Wii has had it's share along with the 360 and I think PS3 needs to be given the same respect even though it didn't meet everyone's expectations in terms of pricing/BC (especially in the UK/EU), but of course it will take time, but atleast give it a chance. That's all that I have to say on it.

Also, last but not least: Welcome to bit-tech Joe. I don't mean to come across as hateful or that your presense wasn't wanted/needed, but I needed to let you know what I was thinking and I hope that you take my statements in the upmost respectful manner and/or you take them to be from a logical/realistic point of view and not an irrational/biased fanboy's point of view that you have been led to believe.

Peace.
CardJoe 7th May 2007, 21:38 Quote
First of all; it's a column, not an objective article so it's a platform for my opinions.

As for the PS3 always having had BC, I have to confess I didn't know that. That means the statement I made on the forums (which are kept seperate from normal, objective articles) isn't ironic, just wrong. Sorry about that. Though my point always was that, since the market completely expects the PS3 to have BC (like 360 and Wii), boasting about it to such an extent is a little stupid. It's like a car dealer saying:

"OMG! This car has seatbelts too!"
"I know it has seatbelts, I would have expected seatbelts. All cars have seatbelts nowadays. Tell me about the engine you foolish car salesman."

Secondly, the console I was actually going to slate in the column was the Wii, not the PS3. I actually have the remnants of the article if you don't believe me, but basically I think that the Wii is too focused at families and casual gamers atm to make much of an impact in the market in the long term. Hardcore gamers want something different than the Wii offers generally.

Lastly, yep. I am a fanboy and thats the point, that I will now be trying to avoid the over the top statements and over defensive reactions to someone slating my favourtie game or console. I'm a Monkey Island fanboy, a PC fan boy, etc.But I am a fan who is trying to detach himself from the attitude that I think could end up ruining legitimate franchises.

And don't worry, if I couldn't deal with critiscism then I wouldn't have got this far ;)

In reply to your first paragraph, I was born in Winchester, grew up in Derbyshire and yes Monkey Island was pretty much the first spark that got me into gaming and technology. From the fun I had with that I moved on to other things, migrating from Amiga's to PC's and consoles. I actually have a page on my blog about it (link below), but I just didn't think the article should have been an 'ego' piece.

Cheers for the feedback though.
DougEdey 7th May 2007, 21:49 Quote
The PS3 has not had a good amount of BC in europe since day 1.

The first update only made 6 out of the current top 10 games in the UK playable.

Now to prove to you something look here: http://faq.eu.playstation.com/bc/bcGames.htm

Look for Final Fantasy, FFXII, the latest game in the franchise, the one which had massive publicity in Europe prior to release, does not play correctly on the PS3.

This is why I shall stand by CardJoe, we as Europeans have been treated like crap by SCEE.

If Microsoft came over to the US said, "We'll charge you $200 more then everyone else, give you less compatibility, less hardware and a poorer service compared to other countries, but we'll carry on giving the other countries the better hardware" how would you feel?

We've become too accustomed to "Rip Off Britain" in the past decade, and I'm sorry to say this, but I'm now completely pissed off with it.

DevDevil85: Please can you give me valid reasons for what SCEE has done to us in the UK?
devdevil85 7th May 2007, 23:01 Quote
Well Joe for all the ranting and raving you've done so far, I was expecting the PS3 to be the huge disappointment. I'm sorry the Wii didn't meet your expectations. It didn't meet mine either.

Secondly, the column was meant to introduce YOU to the bit-tech community, which is why I felt you should've added more personable things such as what you did in your reply to me, giving the community more of an understanding of who you are as a person and where your values lay.

Thirdly, I still don't understand what you mean in terms of your seatbelt quote because in the US the PS3 did come with BC for both the PS1 and PS2 when it debuted, so basically you're talking about the UK/EU version which you didn't specify. And even if you were, it still doesn't make sense because, again, it did come with full BC with the PS1 and practically 1500+ titles for the PS2 and growing so....

Thank you for acknowledging yourself as being a fanboy, but to think you are destroying a franchise based on words in a forum is a little over-the-top. You are just expressing your opinion, but whenever fact comes into play then it's just fact and sometimes people need to hear it over and over again until they acknowledge it as being fact. So I disagree on your statement that fanboys destory franchises and products.

Also, sometimes being a fanboy is good. Standing up for a product you care about even in the worst of times is sometimes fulfilling and justified even if it's a little flamboyish and rageful, but sometimes people put it on themselves when they spout something out that shouldn't have.

Criticism is always good too. It means people are actually reading your articles and that people can hear you, and you can also see what they think about them. So I can understand where you're coming from when you say that you have dealt with criticism most of your life as writer.

Well I guess I will have to read your blog on what made Monkey Ball spark your interest in gaming technology.

Thanks Joe for the reply, it's been fun so far.
devdevil85 7th May 2007, 23:19 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by DougEdey
The PS3 has not had a good amount of BC in europe since day 1.

The first update only made 6 out of the current top 10 games in the UK playable.

Now to prove to you something look here: http://faq.eu.playstation.com/bc/bcGames.htm

Look for Final Fantasy, FFXII, the latest game in the franchise, the one which had massive publicity in Europe prior to release, does not play correctly on the PS3.

This is why I shall stand by CardJoe, we as Europeans have been treated like crap by SCEE.

If Microsoft came over to the US said, "We'll charge you $200 more then everyone else, give you less compatibility, less hardware and a poorer service compared to other countries, but we'll carry on giving the other countries the better hardware" how would you feel?

We've become too accustomed to "Rip Off Britain" in the past decade, and I'm sorry to say this, but I'm now completely pissed off with it.

DevDevil85: Please can you give me valid reasons for what SCEE has done to us in the UK?

DougEdey, I know pricing in the UK/EU sucks. I'm sorry for that. I guess just wait for a price drop in the near future. With waiting, the gaming/movie library will accumulate and Playstation Home will be out and so will a rumble controller, which idk when it'll be coming out, but I would expect almost as soon as Sony and Immersion can work out their differences. Again, I hear you on the price, but the only real hardware decrease that I know of was the physical PS1/PS2 emulator, and that's it so idk where else to go with it.

As for the bad BC in UK/EU, it's could be an issue between the hardware in the US being NTSC based and the UK/EU versions being PAL. Again, idk what the cause for bad BC is, but I can tell you Sony didn't do it on purpose and that there's gotta be a reason for it rather than them "hating" the UK/EU, and I know that they will do all they can to get as many games BC. Remember, emulation is a slow process that involves many variations of games and the latest PS2 games will utilize every available option that the console offers and due to the multiple revisions of the PS2 I can kind of see how hard it would be to get every game to work through the emulator, especially because of the many hardware/software revisions that the PS2 has had during its lifetime. Anyways let me know your opinion on it.
Bauul 8th May 2007, 00:53 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by devdevil85
As for the bad BC in UK/EU, it's could be an issue between the hardware in the US being NTSC based and the UK/EU versions being PAL.

I somewhat doubt a slight different resolution would break so many games when even the simplest of simple image renderers can cope with differing resolutions, and the PS3 is hardly a simple renderer.

Disclaimer: Potential rant ahead, it's late and I'm tired. All this is only for the benefit of lively discussion and futhering of human knowledge. That said, let the games begin:

On the wider debate, I'm kind of lost actually. Joe was hardly massivley laying into the PS3, he only used it as an example of a product which has many so called fanboys, which is hardly debateable. It was hardly a rant at the PS3 by any means. And as for what the column "should" have been: it's Joe's column, to be honest it's up to him what he puts in it.

Taking a step back for a moment, it appears the irony is on you Devil. Joe writes a column examining fanboys, a kind of person who goes endlessly on about a product even when the conversation isn't wholly about it, get overly negative and defensive and start having a go at people for simply saying what everyone else is thinking. Then, low and behold, someone comes along and starts going endlessly on about a product that wasn't even the focus of the column, gets overly negative and defensive about the product, even presumes bits of the column were about said product when they weren't, and has a go at everyone who enters the conversation to back Joe up, even with hard facts as posted by Sony themselves. If you aren't the most stereotypical fanboy there ever was, and exactly the kind of person Joe pointed out just makes everyone else hate their favourite product even more, I don't know who is.

Not everyone is out to needlessly diss the PS3, Joe's points were both valid and accurate, as you've so wonderfully demonstrated, so for that reason I guess he has you to thank for that. Truth is, the PS3 is not an awful console, it's not awful at all, but people do bash it is simply because of a) Sony's attitude and b) the fanboys attitude. If Sony weren't so up themselves (which no-one can deny they are) and there weren't quite so many blindly faithful fanboys, it wouldn't nearly get the negative attention it recieves currently. So in that respect Joe's absolutely right, the more you and other Sony fanboys go on about the PS3, the less people respect it.
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