;) The only thing I would add is that I don't think MS is totally innocent in all this either - I get the feeling they're doing everything they can to kill OpenGL (esp given it's poor performance in Vista)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Article ...The whole point of Audigy was supposed to be its programmable chips, which could always adapt to future technology - yet only X-Fi would be supported in Vista.
They told the same lie with the "Live!" cards, I haven't bought from then since.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Article And much like gamers and Linux, it's sad to have to not use a really good operating system due to sucky support by everyone else.
I know, I can't believe that nobody has known about the driver. I knew there was and would be one. Duh!! N always bring out Beta drivers. Da Dego and lamboman's tip: Look for the beta drivers as well as the official ones!
Originally Posted by lamboman I know, I can't believe that nobody has known about the driver. I knew there was and would be one. Duh!! N always bring out Beta drivers. Da Dego and lamboman's tip: Look for the beta drivers as well as the official ones!
:(
Quote:
Originally Posted by Article Oh, that's right, because NVIDIA wants the 8800GTS and GTX to run in SLI first. And it wants DX10 to run flawlessly - you know, that piece of code that won't even hit until March? Yes, that one. That's priority #1 - the stuff that isn't out yet, and won't have a real benefit for even longer. Who the $@#! needs 8800s in SLI yet, anyway?!
Series 6 and 7 (the ones everyone actually has) will come...later.
lamboman, I knew about that driver. In fact, I tried it. Anyone with an SLI rig that isn't using 8800 series cards will actually be unable to use it.
The point I was not-so-subtly making in my post above was....nevermind, this shouldn't really require explanation.
Originally Posted by zr_ox Very well written and informative.
I have Vista running on a Dell Optiplex at the moment and all I can say is nice job Microsoft. It really is a dream to use when there is proper hardware compatibility.
I have almost finished modding my Stacker 830 and am ready to connect up my new uber fast components, however I'm not going to. I want to run Vista with full hardware support from day one, sure there are beta's for my 8800 & Creative card. As a consumer I expect the drivers to be available on release day, easpecially when they are such major components. I would expect a delay for my TV capture card, or even raid adapter but not Audio & Video cards.
I hate to say it but who do we have other than Creative for our audio needs???(Dont answer that...I know). ATi & Nvidia are the ONLY two GPU's that anyone with half a brain would consider as gaming cards....so why are ATi only represented with Vista? This really is a shocking state of affairs.
Creative & Nvidia have become way too big for their boots and somebody needs to give them a shake. Perhaps Ati will scare the hell out of Nvidia at Cebit with the RD600, let hope so. That just leaves Creative now perhaps Razer can help by redesigning their Audio card to be a real contender.
Creative cards are for people who think headphones need surround sound, (hint you have two ears). nuff said'
As for razer they have brought out the most gimiky peice of crap known to man with there headphones and soundcard. If your looking for a better card than the xfi ESI make a nice card with very good drivers: http://www.esi-pro.com/viewProduct.php?pid=43
(Although no vista one yet)
It supports SLI for 8800's in DirectX 9, but not 10, and, as the link says, is for Vista.
Happy gaming 8800 owners (can't wait to become one!!)
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Originally Posted by lamboman I know, I can't believe that nobody has known about the driver. I knew there was and would be one. Duh!! N always bring out Beta drivers. Da Dego and lamboman's tip: Look for the beta drivers as well as the official ones!
Do bit people read anymore ? This is like the 5th article where people just seemed to have skimmed, missed all the points and then posted in the forums (as an EG the one about the vadim case, people thinking all 12 fans (or whatever) would be loud when you said they were quiet)
Seriously, not meaning to flame or anything, but jeez, if you dont read dont post
Just to clarify, Vista has been around (in RC builds) for like 6 months atleast, and nvidia only have beta drivers ? come on get your a** in gear guys
However, technically, when you bought your hardware, did they actually say "we promise to support the latest OS and our card for the next 5 years" ?
Now ill probably get flamed for that comment, but technically, am i not right ?
Even hardware that's 12 months old usually doesn't get driver updates, or software has the same problem, requiring you to purchase a "new" version
I'm not flaming you, I'm friendly...
but I think a big issue with this is that even if my hardware is "5 years old" -- I can still buy it today. You can go to your local retailer and still buy an nVidia FX5000 series GPU, the 6000 series, the 7000 series, etc. This will cover all price points from $30 and up. They are still selling these chips now. The only 8000 series video cards available are the 8800's -- ranging from $350-$700.
It'd be one thing if nVidia was sending a message saying "time to upgrade your $30 FX 5200 to our new $50 8100"...but by not having drivers out for Vista, they're sortof saying: "Spend $350 or more, or there's no gaming under Vista for you."
When "average joe" (well, slightly above average if he's building his own computer, but still doesn't know about driver issues with Vista) goes to put together a new computer....he might be aiming for midrange with a 6600 or 7600...and of course he's going to buy Vista for a new build. nVidia needs to get some blame for still selling their old hardware but not offering any reasonobly priced options for timely Vista compatibility.
Because it says on the 8800 box that it does DX10, so if they don't get DX10 going on those cards there will be a riot. Meanwhile everyone else has to wait patiently :)
Originally Posted by TMM Because it says on the 8800 box that it does DX10, so if they don't get DX10 going on those cards there will be a riot. Meanwhile everyone else has to wait patiently :)
That's no excuse. Are you trying to suggest that Nvidia either does not have/cannot take on enough coding knowledge to write drivers for more than one product at a time?
What happened to "unified driver architecture"?
I for one applaud tihs article. It's telling it how it is and anyone who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves.
I would expect any Nvidia card from 6 series upwards to be working just fine in Vista, possibly even some older cards...
Why does anyone want to use vista anyway? The only reason I'll be upgrading is DX10, and until there are some DX10 games out XP is the best option.
I usually agree with the columns here but this one sounds like a big cry about nothing.
As for SLI: it still doesn't work properly on the 6 series! Why would it be working well on the 8 series under vista. Any why do people buy the GX2s when they know SLI is broken and there are less expensive single-chip options that perform better?
An overwhelming majority of Vista licenses sold will be in new systems via Dell, etc. It only makes sense that driver writers would make those customers the priority.
Logitech is another company that is not releasing Vista drivers for a lot of it's products and instead they just link you to products to buy that are compatible.
I think some companies have just seen Vista as a cash cow. Needless to say, the products they are no longer supporting I've purchased replacements from alternative manufacturers.
Damn good article Brett, like the Linux analogy especially. I don't have the systems or the monitors to run both, because if I tried to be solely Linux it'd be more of a pain in the ass than the good it'd to for the lack of people that use it. This is much like the issue of drivers for the minority of early adopters and people that are using their current hardware. It really probably isn't as much of a minority either, they are just neglecting their customers. Let us be irate!!
Originally Posted by eddie_dane An overwhelming majority of Vista licenses sold will be in new systems via Dell, etc. It only makes sense that driver writers would make those customers the priority.
How many of those people are going to be running a single 8800 GTS, let alone two 8800 GTX cards in SLi?
I totally agree with the article. Aside from what I consider to be a very flawed security model (users still default to admins, completely defeating the purpose of half the implementations), Vista seems like a pretty good OS, after discounting the rather crap driver support from manufacturers. For me it hasn't been a huge issue (no support for the fingerprint reader on my Thinkpad T60, boo frickin' hoo), but I would certainly be quite upset when my practically-brand-new $400+ video card won't function because of the nVidian code monkeys taking a banana break. I'm not sure if I can safely blame the rather iffy wireless on a driver of Vista in general... I've heard other people having mediocre luck as well.
I guess the problem is also Creative & others (I bet MSI gets in on this too) but it seems the biggest target is Nvidia so shouldn't the title be "Not Enjoying The nView"? :D
This is one reason I'm not upgrading to Vista yet, drivers for my hardware don't all exist yet(wireless also needs a driver) My friend just did, and is stuck using only 1 of his 7900GTs. It really must suck to spend upwards of $400 and not be able to use your hardware due to the manufacturer dropping the ball on drivers, its inexcusable to not have drivers yet!
Good article, and something to consider before upgrading. I also like the fact that there's a NVidia add directly below the article.. :) Well.. a BFG add.. bit the NVidia logo is very prominent.
Originally Posted by specofdust People have already paid all they're going to pay for the older cards. If you own a 7900GT in SLI you're not going to give them anything extra to get SLI drivers. But having SLI drivers for 8800GTX's mean they can market it as a good idea to buy a second, and people will be overall more likely to purchase them. This is simply Nvidia treating their customers like ****.
It's like the Nationwide advert -
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Brand New Customers Only.
That's who Nvidia appear to be catering their driver support for.
Fantastic article - I laid in bed reading it on my mobile and felt compelled to get up and write a reply using a full-sized keyboard. I've digged it (or should that be dugg) too!
Originally Posted by customh Damn good article Brett, like the Linux analogy especially. I don't have the systems or the monitors to run both, because if I tried to be solely Linux it'd be more of a pain in the ass than the good it'd to for the lack of people that use it. This is much like the issue of drivers for the minority of early adopters and people that are using their current hardware. It really probably isn't as much of a minority either, they are just neglecting their customers. Let us be irate!!
linux has better driver support and more aplications than any version of windows , just less compatibility with cutting edge stuff. Also wine supports more windows programs than any single version of windows. Ever tried to play a game from 95' on your xp boxen? they usualy don't work.
I have to say, I've heard alot of complaints, espeacialy the guys in my clan, they've all got Nvidia cards and are constantly complaining, saying "wah wah wah, Vista is crap, I'll never use it... etc" So I decided to give this ago, I installed vista Ultimate and got my favourite games on installed (GTR2, BF2, BF2142, Rainbox six Vegas) they all run brilliantly on on my X1900 Xt, so I'd reccomend nvidia users to wait out for the drivers then jump on to vista, I don't know if it's just me but there also seems to be a pretty good preformance increase, everything seems alot faster than Xp. It might be thats I'm on 64bit now and decent dualcore support, but I'm loving vista.
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The point I was not-so-subtly making in my post above was....nevermind, this shouldn't really require explanation.
They just need kicking.
Bought a USB bluetooth dongle a while ago, worked fine, then I made my new PC and switched over to XP Pro, wouldn't work at all. No excuse for that.
Creative cards are for people who think headphones need surround sound, (hint you have two ears). nuff said'
As for razer they have brought out the most gimiky peice of crap known to man with there headphones and soundcard. If your looking for a better card than the xfi ESI make a nice card with very good drivers:
http://www.esi-pro.com/viewProduct.php?pid=43
(Although no vista one yet)
Seriously, not meaning to flame or anything, but jeez, if you dont read dont post
Just to clarify, Vista has been around (in RC builds) for like 6 months atleast, and nvidia only have beta drivers ? come on get your a** in gear guys
I'm not flaming you, I'm friendly...
but I think a big issue with this is that even if my hardware is "5 years old" -- I can still buy it today. You can go to your local retailer and still buy an nVidia FX5000 series GPU, the 6000 series, the 7000 series, etc. This will cover all price points from $30 and up. They are still selling these chips now. The only 8000 series video cards available are the 8800's -- ranging from $350-$700.
It'd be one thing if nVidia was sending a message saying "time to upgrade your $30 FX 5200 to our new $50 8100"...but by not having drivers out for Vista, they're sortof saying: "Spend $350 or more, or there's no gaming under Vista for you."
When "average joe" (well, slightly above average if he's building his own computer, but still doesn't know about driver issues with Vista) goes to put together a new computer....he might be aiming for midrange with a 6600 or 7600...and of course he's going to buy Vista for a new build. nVidia needs to get some blame for still selling their old hardware but not offering any reasonobly priced options for timely Vista compatibility.
That's no excuse. Are you trying to suggest that Nvidia either does not have/cannot take on enough coding knowledge to write drivers for more than one product at a time?
What happened to "unified driver architecture"?
I for one applaud tihs article. It's telling it how it is and anyone who thinks otherwise is deluding themselves.
I would expect any Nvidia card from 6 series upwards to be working just fine in Vista, possibly even some older cards...
I usually agree with the columns here but this one sounds like a big cry about nothing.
As for SLI: it still doesn't work properly on the 6 series! Why would it be working well on the 8 series under vista. Any why do people buy the GX2s when they know SLI is broken and there are less expensive single-chip options that perform better?
I think some companies have just seen Vista as a cash cow. Needless to say, the products they are no longer supporting I've purchased replacements from alternative manufacturers.
pretty much answered your own question! :D
Fantastic article - I laid in bed reading it on my mobile and felt compelled to get up and write a reply using a full-sized keyboard. I've digged it (or should that be dugg) too!
linux has better driver support and more aplications than any version of windows , just less compatibility with cutting edge stuff. Also wine supports more windows programs than any single version of windows. Ever tried to play a game from 95' on your xp boxen? they usualy don't work.
A multitude of reasons you arse.
Have you actually tried Vista? Or do you just want to beat it down because that's what everyone else is doing?
but thats just my 2p
-Fr4nk
ATi F.T.W :p