This article could have been written by me (if I had the skill to write).
I never ever cheated in MP, sometimes in SP but mostly it was just because of fun and not because the game sucked being played without cheats turned on.
Actually I'm more like what Kameleon said a powergamer. Finding the best possible equipment, skills, styles or whatever. Bug-using in SP is just fine too. Like in Fifa 99 there has been a clipping failure which allowed me to be like unbeatable even in highest difficulty against CPU (what ain't that hard though ;)) and which made my friends go crazy while playing it human vs. human. :D
So what is wrong with it? Making the best possible experience with a game is what it was ment to be made, or am I wrong? Is a game made to force you to do something exactly the same way the designer planned it to happen?
If there's some parts that's linear... well, ok... but I'd like to have the chance to play the game my way!
I think everyone has a point here. Both Kna and people sharing his view, and those opposed to cheating and pro-challange.
The main thing to consider here is ability levels. Those who seek and appreciate a challange.. it is just that.. a challange. But what presents a challange to you might be impassable to another.
I enjoy a challange just like the next guy. But If i have to spend an hour, or 5 tries to complete something thats just no fun. Thats not a challange thats a fustration! A challange is great when you have multiple options. Where even when faced with failure there are paths to take that will eventually lead to victory. But a challange that requires repetitious pracicing of the same thing over and over just to accomplish a single task is annoying.
An example is one map in black and white 2. I wasnt paying attention and next thing I know I'm out of ore.. nothing I can do but start the map over.. it was a complete deadlock. Well sure, I could restart the map and spend another 2.5 hours building up another city for the "challange" of it.. and the satisfaction of meeting that challange.. but thats no fun. They should have made the mines slowly regenerate once at 0 so that if you run out.. you cant play at the same speed but you have a path to take once pressed up against that wall.
I dont cheat as much as I can.. but If i ever find myself in a position where I am having no fun because the challange exceeds my ability I do cheat (assuming we're playing single player games). If i have the time.. i will raise my ability to meet the challange.. but as kna said.. its a game.. and a game is entertainment. Who wants to spend hours practicing so you can complete something that is meant to entertain you?? If its something that accomplishes something.. or in other words isnt simply entertainment.. thats a different story.
in multiplayer.. i just dont cheat. If I dont feel a desire to raise my ability to the challange I just wont play it. CS is fun.. but I found it more fun when 1.3 of the original CS was out and there was a huge flood of people learning how to play the game. Everyone was on my skill level and it was fun. Playing now where you will have one person pulling a 20:1 K:D and everyone else on the server is barely at a 1:1... its rediculous and not fun..
which reminds me.. where is the challange in that? (for the guy with the high K:D)
Originally Posted by BlueDemon You're talking about shooting the cashier with an enormous gun, right? :D I know what you mean. I truly have a gift for ALWAYS picking the slowest queue :(
That's fairly pointless. Then your queue stops completely! Shoot the people ahead of you, or shoot the cashier after they serve you :D
I cheat. I'm fine with that. My game-playing time is intended to be fun, which does not equate to spending days trying to unlock that last goodie. On MASHED: Fully Loaded for the xbox I used the cheat code to unlock the final map. SO what? I had most everything else, and I wanted my friends to be able to get as much enjoyment out of the game as possible regardless of my own skill level.
Final Fantasy, however, is different. I use walkthroughs to get l33t stuff, but I work damn hard for my levels - literally dozens of hours walking around some godforsaken island that just happens to hold the biggest, scariest EXP-dispensers in the game (you all know what I mean, there's one in every game :p )
In Burnout and Tony Hawks, I've slaved my way through them because I can - the learning curve matches my skill level closely enough that I never get too frustrated. I think that's a big part of it - if the game taxes you too litte, you get bored. Too much, you get fed up. It's finding the balance that is necessary to creating a great game, and I suppose nobody will ever get it quite right
I reckon this is an intresting one, and both sides are probably right. For me, the best way to play a game is where you die quite a lot, but not a frustrating ammount, if it becomes frustrating you should notch it down a level, but you should by dying/losing sometimes, not just having a caekwalk. But I normally do a second play through of a game, just a crazy fun one, where I shove it on whatever skill level I feel like, throw godmode and all the other great cheats on, and just enjoy walking around feeling stylish shooting things in the little toe.
Cheating in the online world, or participating in a way that ruins it for others(AWP whores look sheepish now!) I hate, I think if you're doing something at the detriment of others, something they don't have any say in, then you're being unfair, and its just selfish.
Commandos was a big one for me. It drove me to the point of frustration so many times. :(
After getting the satisfaction of completing a mission without cheats there were oft' times I went back to them, turned on the cheats, and with the Green Beret kill everyone with the knife or tie absolutely everyone up. ;)
I very rarely cheat, but I will sometimes use guides or walkthroughs from the net to help me get over a tricky spot that I have spent hours working out.
Case in point - I bought Halo 2, and knew that I had no more than 1.5 days to complete it, because of my work schedule. So, when one bit about half way through took me absolutely aaaages, I found a walkthrough that told me how to do that bit then raced through the rest of it so that I could get the game completed and enjoy that.
I think we should discriminate between cheating and seeking help. I dont think it is cheating if you use some sort of trick/guide/whatever to get past a tricky stage on a SP game which you would otherwise be really stuck on.
Cheating is when you use said tricks to complete a game quicker/with a better score/with better stats/etc and then boast to friends & peers. Cheating is when you use these tricks in a MP game, which gives you an unfair advantage against fellow human players.
Myself, I remember relying on a walkthrough for certain sections of Morrowind - finding certain people/creatures/objects was not always obvious or intuitive, so sometimes I referred to a guide to figure out where something was. I also used a couple of plugins which were invaluable; one to show roadsigns in english and one to have multiple teleport locations. Neither were cheats but took lots of the boring trudging and searching out of the game so I could concentrate on fun parts (ie missions & combat).
Ultimately, anything that gives you an unfair advantage on an MP game is cheating. In an SP game, it doesnt matter since it's a private issue; you are only conning yourself if you overstep the mark.
That's different though, with morrowind, those weren't cheats at all. The roadsigns thing just saved a few seconds, because if you got close to them then there was a popup saying anyway, and the multiple teleports didnt' neccesarily make anything easier, it just saved you some trudge time, which can be valued in a game of morrowinds size.
i dont like games where you sneak around, i want to jump into a room full of the enemy and blow them to little bits. To me sneaking around is camping, and i hate campers, unless they are sniping. Playing online i would never cheat beacuse this ruins the fun of outsmarting the other person. However, i will sometimes sneak around, but the outcome is me bashing the other player with my binoculars or shoting them with a pistol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTT People play single player without cheats? :?
The first time i will play single player through with no cheats, but then i will use cheats the next time i play it. Also, the first time trhrough playing the game in sp and i get stuck in a level i restart from the last checkpoint or restart the level, that way i dont get stuck again.
I think that this is just me but when i played call of duty and the expansion through on the hardest setting in single player, i would not allow myself to get hurt, and when i did i restarted the level. i must have been extremely bored and had a lot of free time when i did that. Has anyone else done something like that?
I read the article as was amazed, why buy a game for the purpose of completing it (enjoying it) and then effectively skip some of it by becoming invincible. That's not playing the game, it's almost like watching screen shots. Why not just download and watch the end credits instead of buying it. The only games I havn't completed are ones that I got bored with (how I finished FEAR is a mystery cos that was very boring). I usually complete on hard and sometimes make things harder by say doing the whole game without using the X weapon or not using XP points to upgrade. If I ever cheated in a game I would just feel embarassed not proud of my achievement.
BTW I consider myself pretty good at single player but I admit to being rubbish at multi player like CSS.
Ultimately, anything that gives you an unfair advantage on an MP game is cheating. In an SP game, it doesnt matter since it's a private issue; you are only conning yourself if you overstep the mark.
That's definetly the crux of it and i suppose that's exactly what the article was saying. It just seems a wierd point of view for a game/computer enthusiast.
Originally Posted by gmarappledude I read the article as was amazed, why buy a game for the purpose of completing it (enjoying it) and then effectively skip some of it by becoming invincible. That's not playing the game, it's almost like watching screen shots. Why not just download and watch the end credits instead of buying it. The only games I havn't completed are ones that I got bored with (how I finished FEAR is a mystery cos that was very boring). I usually complete on hard and sometimes make things harder by say doing the whole game without using the X weapon or not using XP points to upgrade. If I ever cheated in a game I would just feel embarassed not proud of my achievement.
BTW I consider myself pretty good at single player but I admit to being rubbish at multi player like CSS.
Congratulations, you obviously have more patience than I and are far better at playing games. However, I don't feel embarrassed because I don't have to explain myself to anyone except me and I feel a lot better at having got past a tricky section and continuing, than uninstalling the game and realising I've wasted £30.
What I enjoy and what you enjoy are not the same.
Unfortunately, it seems you have have missed a lot of the explainations in my article which makes me think you 'skipped a lot of the interesting content', why not read it again and see why I do it and what I get out of it rather than 'getting bored and not completing it'.
For me playing a game does not bring out enjoyment just from 'beating the game' and completing it, I also derive enjoyment in the graphics, the sound, the storyline, the immersion in another world battling aliens or whatever.
As such cheating in single player doesn't necessarily make playing the game any less enjoyable to me - yes, it may diminish the satisfaction of having 'beaten the computer', but I'll still have fun in god mode killing thousands of enemies in implausible fashion and making countless huge explosions with my unlimited variety of high tech simulated weaponry, enjoyment I wouldn't have gained without turning on the cheat. Frankly its far more fun just to do that than just get killed over and over at the same point. I think thats what Kna was getting at...beating the game without cheats is great, but beating it with cheats is still fun as it offers a greater possibility for mayhem.
You'll notice I put 'me' in bold in my last paragraph, thats to highlight how this is such a personal thing. Some people sneer at cheating even in single player, because to them it sucks all the challenge out of the game....others don't mid cheating now and then if it helps them complete the game and have more fun in doing so (I'd rather have a whacking great machine gun and rocket launcher instead of just battling along with the crappy little pistol you got given at the start first level and are supposed to use for the majority of the game). Theres no right or wrong in single player cheating IMHO, its a personal thing.
Sorry KNA, I didn't mean to offend. I've read bit-tech for years and do think it's a great site with great articles. I guess my attitude to gaming (focused on completion) is the reason I don't enjoy it as much as I used to. Can't see the wood for the trees so to speak. Maybe a mod should delete my previous post if it offends.
Originally Posted by gmarappledude Sorry KNA, I didn't mean to offend. I've read bit-tech for years and do think it's a great site with great articles. I guess my attitude to gaming (focused on completion) is the reason I don't enjoy it as much as I used to. Can't see the wood for the trees so to speak. Maybe a mod should delete my previous post if it offends.
I can assure you he wasn't offended in the slightest :D
Originally Posted by Chris Arse Kicking with Zombies and Sex IV.
I am interested in this product or service and would like to hear more.
I think there's a big difference between cheating to pass an otherwise impassable part, and cheating to beat the game. One is about avoiding a situation that is so unpleasant that it ruins the game experience, and the other is about being able to see the ending without earning it. The second is probably what most people decry in video gaming, but that doesn't preclude the first from being a gigantic boon.
Consider X-COM, an old DOS game that now has an awesome patcher to customize save files. One negative aspect of the original game is that the default base layout is horribly inefficient; if you're attacked too quickly, you'll be annihilated. The patch provides an alternate default base layout, and I consider that acceptable because it only affects a minimal part of the game, and allows the player to continue enjoying the experience without worrying about the worst case scenario at all times. However, the patch also allows you to get a $100 billion budget, which affects every single aspect of the game. Having that much money initially multiplies your game progress exponentially, since your budget is the only thing holding your expansion in the first place. For me, that's going too far.
Think back to the original Doom games. Did you hit IDDQD and play through while invincible? I did, and I still had to find all the weapons and doors and keys. What about IDKFA? Sure, I still have the challenge of staying alive. But using both, plus IDNOCLIP and IDLVL, and suddenly there's no challenge left.
Comments 26 to 44 of 44
I never ever cheated in MP, sometimes in SP but mostly it was just because of fun and not because the game sucked being played without cheats turned on.
Actually I'm more like what Kameleon said a powergamer. Finding the best possible equipment, skills, styles or whatever. Bug-using in SP is just fine too. Like in Fifa 99 there has been a clipping failure which allowed me to be like unbeatable even in highest difficulty against CPU (what ain't that hard though ;)) and which made my friends go crazy while playing it human vs. human. :D
So what is wrong with it? Making the best possible experience with a game is what it was ment to be made, or am I wrong? Is a game made to force you to do something exactly the same way the designer planned it to happen?
If there's some parts that's linear... well, ok... but I'd like to have the chance to play the game my way!
The main thing to consider here is ability levels. Those who seek and appreciate a challange.. it is just that.. a challange. But what presents a challange to you might be impassable to another.
I enjoy a challange just like the next guy. But If i have to spend an hour, or 5 tries to complete something thats just no fun. Thats not a challange thats a fustration! A challange is great when you have multiple options. Where even when faced with failure there are paths to take that will eventually lead to victory. But a challange that requires repetitious pracicing of the same thing over and over just to accomplish a single task is annoying.
An example is one map in black and white 2. I wasnt paying attention and next thing I know I'm out of ore.. nothing I can do but start the map over.. it was a complete deadlock. Well sure, I could restart the map and spend another 2.5 hours building up another city for the "challange" of it.. and the satisfaction of meeting that challange.. but thats no fun. They should have made the mines slowly regenerate once at 0 so that if you run out.. you cant play at the same speed but you have a path to take once pressed up against that wall.
I dont cheat as much as I can.. but If i ever find myself in a position where I am having no fun because the challange exceeds my ability I do cheat (assuming we're playing single player games). If i have the time.. i will raise my ability to meet the challange.. but as kna said.. its a game.. and a game is entertainment. Who wants to spend hours practicing so you can complete something that is meant to entertain you?? If its something that accomplishes something.. or in other words isnt simply entertainment.. thats a different story.
in multiplayer.. i just dont cheat. If I dont feel a desire to raise my ability to the challange I just wont play it. CS is fun.. but I found it more fun when 1.3 of the original CS was out and there was a huge flood of people learning how to play the game. Everyone was on my skill level and it was fun. Playing now where you will have one person pulling a 20:1 K:D and everyone else on the server is barely at a 1:1... its rediculous and not fun..
which reminds me.. where is the challange in that? (for the guy with the high K:D)
I cheat. I'm fine with that. My game-playing time is intended to be fun, which does not equate to spending days trying to unlock that last goodie. On MASHED: Fully Loaded for the xbox I used the cheat code to unlock the final map. SO what? I had most everything else, and I wanted my friends to be able to get as much enjoyment out of the game as possible regardless of my own skill level.
Final Fantasy, however, is different. I use walkthroughs to get l33t stuff, but I work damn hard for my levels - literally dozens of hours walking around some godforsaken island that just happens to hold the biggest, scariest EXP-dispensers in the game (you all know what I mean, there's one in every game :p )
In Burnout and Tony Hawks, I've slaved my way through them because I can - the learning curve matches my skill level closely enough that I never get too frustrated. I think that's a big part of it - if the game taxes you too litte, you get bored. Too much, you get fed up. It's finding the balance that is necessary to creating a great game, and I suppose nobody will ever get it quite right
Cheating in the online world, or participating in a way that ruins it for others(AWP whores look sheepish now!) I hate, I think if you're doing something at the detriment of others, something they don't have any say in, then you're being unfair, and its just selfish.
After getting the satisfaction of completing a mission without cheats there were oft' times I went back to them, turned on the cheats, and with the Green Beret kill everyone with the knife or tie absolutely everyone up. ;)
Case in point - I bought Halo 2, and knew that I had no more than 1.5 days to complete it, because of my work schedule. So, when one bit about half way through took me absolutely aaaages, I found a walkthrough that told me how to do that bit then raced through the rest of it so that I could get the game completed and enjoy that.
Cheating is when you use said tricks to complete a game quicker/with a better score/with better stats/etc and then boast to friends & peers. Cheating is when you use these tricks in a MP game, which gives you an unfair advantage against fellow human players.
Myself, I remember relying on a walkthrough for certain sections of Morrowind - finding certain people/creatures/objects was not always obvious or intuitive, so sometimes I referred to a guide to figure out where something was. I also used a couple of plugins which were invaluable; one to show roadsigns in english and one to have multiple teleport locations. Neither were cheats but took lots of the boring trudging and searching out of the game so I could concentrate on fun parts (ie missions & combat).
Ultimately, anything that gives you an unfair advantage on an MP game is cheating. In an SP game, it doesnt matter since it's a private issue; you are only conning yourself if you overstep the mark.
I think that this is just me but when i played call of duty and the expansion through on the hardest setting in single player, i would not allow myself to get hurt, and when i did i restarted the level. i must have been extremely bored and had a lot of free time when i did that. Has anyone else done something like that?
BTW I consider myself pretty good at single player but I admit to being rubbish at multi player like CSS.
That's definetly the crux of it and i suppose that's exactly what the article was saying. It just seems a wierd point of view for a game/computer enthusiast.
What I enjoy and what you enjoy are not the same.
Unfortunately, it seems you have have missed a lot of the explainations in my article which makes me think you 'skipped a lot of the interesting content', why not read it again and see why I do it and what I get out of it rather than 'getting bored and not completing it'.
As such cheating in single player doesn't necessarily make playing the game any less enjoyable to me - yes, it may diminish the satisfaction of having 'beaten the computer', but I'll still have fun in god mode killing thousands of enemies in implausible fashion and making countless huge explosions with my unlimited variety of high tech simulated weaponry, enjoyment I wouldn't have gained without turning on the cheat. Frankly its far more fun just to do that than just get killed over and over at the same point. I think thats what Kna was getting at...beating the game without cheats is great, but beating it with cheats is still fun as it offers a greater possibility for mayhem.
You'll notice I put 'me' in bold in my last paragraph, thats to highlight how this is such a personal thing. Some people sneer at cheating even in single player, because to them it sucks all the challenge out of the game....others don't mid cheating now and then if it helps them complete the game and have more fun in doing so (I'd rather have a whacking great machine gun and rocket launcher instead of just battling along with the crappy little pistol you got given at the start first level and are supposed to use for the majority of the game). Theres no right or wrong in single player cheating IMHO, its a personal thing.
I can assure you he wasn't offended in the slightest :D
I am interested in this product or service and would like to hear more.
I think there's a big difference between cheating to pass an otherwise impassable part, and cheating to beat the game. One is about avoiding a situation that is so unpleasant that it ruins the game experience, and the other is about being able to see the ending without earning it. The second is probably what most people decry in video gaming, but that doesn't preclude the first from being a gigantic boon.
Consider X-COM, an old DOS game that now has an awesome patcher to customize save files. One negative aspect of the original game is that the default base layout is horribly inefficient; if you're attacked too quickly, you'll be annihilated. The patch provides an alternate default base layout, and I consider that acceptable because it only affects a minimal part of the game, and allows the player to continue enjoying the experience without worrying about the worst case scenario at all times. However, the patch also allows you to get a $100 billion budget, which affects every single aspect of the game. Having that much money initially multiplies your game progress exponentially, since your budget is the only thing holding your expansion in the first place. For me, that's going too far.
Think back to the original Doom games. Did you hit IDDQD and play through while invincible? I did, and I still had to find all the weapons and doors and keys. What about IDKFA? Sure, I still have the challenge of staying alive. But using both, plus IDNOCLIP and IDLVL, and suddenly there's no challenge left.
I can't believe I remember the Doom cheat codes