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atanum141 10th November 2005, 09:56 Quote
hahaha brilliant!!!
mass cheating for all!!! :)
BioSniper 10th November 2005, 10:06 Quote
Glad its not just me who is tired of realisim games and sneaking. Its entertainment and is no way meant to be realistic. If I wanted realisim I would not be playing games.

Head on with the biggest gun, exactly my style :D
[USRF]Obiwan 10th November 2005, 10:25 Quote
Cant wait to get serious with Sam again :D
Awoken 10th November 2005, 10:28 Quote
I've always liked the tactical approach, subtlty is an art. The great thing about AI is its you versus the machine and you can always find a hole - the zergling rush of starcraft, using doors in splinter cell - hang back, watch and wait. People simply present more of a challenge but theres always a hole, always a weakness. You don't need to cheat you just need patience.
Zidane 10th November 2005, 10:50 Quote
i am in love with my copy of MGS 1&2&3 (i keep them on my pillow as i sleep), but thats purely because i like the sneaky-sneaky part of it (despite raiden who looks like a girl)

but i also treasure my copy of q3a, and b&w, and sim city, and NwN......

sometimes im in the mood for being a sneaky bugger and taking out peeps with a little finesse.... sometimes i just want to spend a few hours repeatedly and methodicly shooting people in the head (sniper elite, oh how i love you)

as for cheating..... i will only cheat a game after i have completed it. its a little point of honour for me, i play the game to have fun, but the challenge can be fun too. i will use cheats on games, but only on the 2nd time through, or if im just chilling out (i.e. pleay destroy all humans and running around anal-probing peeps then cancelling police alert, or infinite ammo for toasting cows >:] )

i just think if i pay £40 for a game, then i dont want to just cheat my way through it, takes a lot of the fun out of it that way.
:: kna :: 10th November 2005, 11:13 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Awoken
You don't need to cheat you just need patience.
I don't have patience in entertainment.. I have patience when I have a problem at work, patience when my kid's crying or patience when I'm queueing and the cashier is messing about.

Patience is not fun. Shooting things with an enormous gun is fun.
Fly 10th November 2005, 11:32 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by :: kna ::
I don't have patience in entertainment.. I have patience when I have a problem at work, patience when my kid's crying or patience when I'm queueing and the cashier is messing about.

Patience is not fun. Shooting things with an enormous gun is fun.

Agreed.

Stat Whore.
Tim S 10th November 2005, 11:54 Quote
:D
Leitchy 10th November 2005, 12:05 Quote
omg Haxor in the server
BioSniper 10th November 2005, 12:39 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by :: kna ::
I don't have patience in entertainment.. I have patience when I have a problem at work, patience when my kid's crying or patience when I'm queueing and the cashier is messing about.

Patience is not fun. Shooting things with an enormous gun is fun.


I whole heartedly agree with that (except the kid bit as I dont have one though I know what you are getting at) :) ;)
Meanmotion 10th November 2005, 12:44 Quote
Hmmm, pretty lame to be fair. I could never condone cheating (or exploiting) because it's exactly that attitude that justifies it for everyone else. If you're a stat whore your killing the fun element for other people, just like team stacking in CS.

I must admit I hate the emphasis on supposed realism when the human-computer interfaces and in game phyiscs we have are utterly insufficient to truely demonstrate subtletly and ingenuity. I mean how many times have you been frustrated by being forced to go round the houses when blatently in real life you'd just stack up those crates in the corner and climb through the window. etc. etc.
Hamish 10th November 2005, 12:53 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meanmotion
Hmmm, pretty lame to be fair. I could never condone cheating (or exploiting) because it's exactly that attitude that justifies it for everyone else. If you're a stat whore your killing the fun element for other people, just like team stacking in CS.
hes talking about cheating in SP not MP
i've been known to apply the odd godmode in SP occasionally
normally i like to complete it properly first but i can be fun to run around melee'ing large groups of baddies into oblivion :D
:: kna :: 10th November 2005, 13:02 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meanmotion
Hmmm, pretty lame to be fair. I could never condone cheating (or exploiting) because it's exactly that attitude that justifies it for everyone else. If you're a stat whore your killing the fun element for other people, just like team stacking in CS.
Not in the slightest, firstly I'm primarily talking about Single Player games and secondly I said that physical cheating in MMOs is bad. If other people have fewer morals than me that's their own problem and should be reported appropriately.

As for killing the fun element for others, that again is their own problem as I'm doing nothing the game wasn't designed to do. I don't know what team stacking is in CS, but unless it's an exploitable bug or downright cheat, then whatever tactics work for them are valid.

For example, I would be a sniper in most MP games like that, because I feel it gives me the best advantage. If people want to call me lame, or a camper, then big deal. Point is, I'm winning and I'm winning within the boundaries of the game parameters.

If that's considered unnacceptable then people either need to come up with a method of killing campers or petion to have the game changed so they're not so powerful. Either way, if I'm not doing anything another player couldn't do without a little thought, that's just hard cheese.
Kameleon 10th November 2005, 13:10 Quote
In the RPG forums that were my home for two or three years (shout out to GameBanshee) we called it powergaming, and I can't help doing it. If a game doesn't have a perfect build and set of equipment already laid out for you, I'll make it my mission to find it, make the most insanely powerful character possible, and completely break the game for myself. A recent example is the somewhat less-than-wonderful KotOR 2, where by the end my PC (and the rest of my party, and every single other person that could possibly be in my party) had what I felt was the perfect set of equipment for their perfect set of skills. The epic final battle in that game took me two rounds of swinging my fully-upgraded dual lightsabers, and it was over due to the insane amount of damage I was doing.

By that time, the fun of the game was solely due to gawping at just how stupendously good my character was, and for no other reason. Some people would argue that this isn't fun at all, but I can't help it - it's just how i play the game.
stephen2002 10th November 2005, 13:11 Quote
Great article! Sometimes I like to do the sneaking, sometimes I like to do the mad blasting with the biggest weapon. I have to agree that to me if I want to play a game I want to feel a bit godlike, not like if I step around that corner and somebody takes a good shot I'll be dead. To me, taking advantage of all of the little loopholes in the game is called skill, not cheating. The developers just need to take more care that there are no loopholes :D
eek 10th November 2005, 14:52 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by :: kna ::
Patience is not fun. Shooting things with an enormous gun is fun.

I agree with that completely, and tbh if I am playing a game and I'm not enjoying it as it doesnt appeal to my style of play, rather than use cheats and hacks I just move on to a games which I do like.

I play a lot of counter-strike and I really enjoy it, but if I wanted to go charging in with the biggest gun possible and know that I'm so hardcore I can't be beat I wont use cheats, I'll go and play Serious Sam. All games have different styles of play. If you dont like it, dont play it.
Shadowed_fury 10th November 2005, 15:07 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kameleon
A recent example is the somewhat less-than-wonderful KotOR 2, where by the end my PC (and the rest of my party, and every single other person that could possibly be in my party) had what I felt was the perfect set of equipment for their perfect set of skills. The epic final battle in that game took me two rounds of swinging my fully-upgraded dual lightsabers, and it was over due to the insane amount of damage I was doing.

By that time, the fun of the game was solely due to gawping at just how stupendously good my character was, and for no other reason. Some people would argue that this isn't fun at all, but I can't help it - it's just how i play the game.

rofl, I did the exact same! :D
Wolfman_UK 10th November 2005, 15:10 Quote
The reason I don't cheat is because it takes the challenge out of the game.

If you complete a game without using a single cheat how much more satisfaction do you get at the end than if you had used a cheat? Much more, which makes the game more enjoyable.

If you want to cheat in SP games, go ahead, your choice - but you lose the benefit of how the game was designed to be played.

-wolfman
cjmUK 10th November 2005, 15:13 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by :: kna ::
I don't have patience in entertainment.. I have patience when I have a problem at work, patience when my kid's crying or patience when I'm queueing and the cashier is messing about.

Patience is not fun. Shooting things with an enormous gun is fun.

Ditto.
Hamish 10th November 2005, 15:30 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kameleon

By that time, the fun of the game was solely due to gawping at just how stupendously good my character was, and for no other reason.
uber darkside force wielder, force lightning (storm?) that just annihilates everything in the room in 1 or 2 hits :D
BlueDemon 10th November 2005, 15:39 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by :: kna ::
I don't have patience in entertainment.. I have patience when I have a problem at work, patience when my kid's crying or patience when I'm queueing and the cashier is messing about.

Patience is not fun. Shooting things with an enormous gun is fun.

You're talking about shooting the cashier with an enormous gun, right? :D I know what you mean. I truly have a gift for ALWAYS picking the slowest queue :(

Back on topic: as a rule I don't cheat. I do seem to recall an instance where a bug in the game or an incredibly hard and frustrating hurdle prevented me from continuing my journey, and using some console command to "rectify" that problem. In SP only, obviously.
Firehed 10th November 2005, 15:56 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kameleon
A recent example is the somewhat less-than-wonderful KotOR 2, where by the end my PC (and the rest of my party, and every single other person that could possibly be in my party) had what I felt was the perfect set of equipment for their perfect set of skills. The epic final battle in that game took me two rounds of swinging my fully-upgraded dual lightsabers, and it was over due to the insane amount of damage I was doing.
Hmm... I was doing the same thing, but still got served.

I would never consider cheating in a way that would affect other players in a multiplayer game. Yeah, I used maphack in d2, get over it. I never did pvp, I was pvm only, and at a point just started selling the goodies I would get in the game and made a fair bit of cash.

Anyways, yes, I'll optimize. I'll go WAY out of my way, for example in FEAR, to get that health booster. Back when I played MUDs, I'd really take into account what I was wearing when I'd level so I'd have optimum stats for the best gains. Part of it has become wanting to find every place there is in a level beause designers keep upping the price and shortening the game, but it IS fun to go rambo-style once in a while. I personally like the stealth experience/method provided there's a context to it, but I've always been more of a sniper than a machine gunner (except in CS).

Often times I'll do a legit play-through (though still going out of my way for those upgrades, and doing as much levelling as possible, etc), then start over with a trainer or some console tweaks and go for the not-meant-to-be-played-this-way-but-still-crazy-fun method. Like in Chaos Theory I went for a totally different play style (no cheating though), where being all stealthy would take 30-60m for a level, I went kill-anything-that-moves and was beating levels in 15m. Though in that game, it's much harder that way, as you can't catch guys off-guard after they see the dead body or hear the gunfire.
Da Dego 10th November 2005, 15:56 Quote
kna, I totally agree with you.

I play games to have FUN. Some games, I take a long time on, and I don't need to cheat but I definitely stats whore (NwN, Morrowind). In those games, though, a lot of the fun is in the strategy of character building.

For games where you can't build your characters up, I'm often not even all that interested. FPS is the big one here. I play an FPS to have fun. I don't want it real, I want it fast and furious, and me weilding the biggest gun of all. I have a copy of UT2k4 that gets a spin every day or two as stress relief. Serious Sam is another one that I use. FEAR? Forget it. Don't care. Quake 4? Nah. Doom 3? Deleted same day I tried it. Far Cry? Well, that I play for the pretty graphics, but never multiplayer. In fact, the only FPS I routinely go to for single player, honest to goodness playing is HL2. Because the story is just cool.

For UT2k4 and SS, I play them for fun and stress relief. Dying is neither. Blowing stuff up with the full power of an arsenal not meant for an entire army is fun. :) God mode rocks.
Firehed 10th November 2005, 16:06 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Da Dego
Quake 4? Nah.
Have you even tried it? It's totally a guys come, shoot all of them type of game, no sneaking around. Actually, gameplay is moderately similar to hl2, where it's some vague strategy but mostly just kill everything, just a different storyline (though less of one).

Still, can't go wrong with some blasting in UT2004.
Spaced_invader 10th November 2005, 16:12 Quote
lol, how can it be cheating if your playing by the rules.... I remember red allert II, there was a bug in the clone vat, if you built a wall around your barracks you'd get refunded but a unit would come out of your clone vat for free any way. Fair enough, it gives you an unfair advantage... but your not using any cracks, trainers, aimbots, <blank> or anything, your just exploiting what the developers forgot about, thats why they hire people to test their games, to iron out all those things. Not my problem if they forget one or two lol.
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