DOTA 2: Back in the saddle
Posted on 16th Oct 2012 at 08:10 by Harry Butler with 38 comments
Valve’s endlessly-in-beta-might be-released-soon-pro-gamer-trap DOTA 2 is game that’s intrigued me, along with its whole genre, since its announcement. I played the game a lot back when it was a Warcraft 3 mod, but hadn't picked up a creep wave in anger for years. Today I finally had a bash at DOTA 2 and amazingly found a game that was just as engaging as it ever was. Even if I didn't really know what I was doing.
Of course, DOTA and its ilk aren't for everyone. Best described as a player vs player MMO experience compressed down into a 55 minute strategy game, our own Joe Martin struggled with both League of Legends and Heroes of Newerth, similar (now also free-to-play) games in the DOTA mould, rolled into the hideously titled MOBA (multiplayer online battle arena) genre. There’s just one map, with the game’s variety coming from the combination of opposing heroes you face and the item build you use to combat them.
We're in their base, killin' their d00ds
It’s a game that’s frankly brutal to new comers; there are 92 different heroes, each with four different abilities and 159 different items with which to augment their stats and powers. That’s a frankly ludicrous amount of data for new players to take in, and I was in a more fortunate position of having at least played the game a fair bit years ago and having an idea of how some of the more popular heroes worked.
If I’d been a new player though, I’d have had little clue what to do and while there’s a practise mode vs. bots and an index of heroes and abilities, I don’t see how Valve can expect new players to sit through hours of practising before jumping online into a match-making game. Inviting uninitiated friends to play DOTA 2 online is like asking them to go on Mastermind and answer questions on the history of the Butternut Squash and its aerodynamic properties in zero gravity; no one’s going to have any fun, and everyone’s just going to get confused.
While many deride MOBA players for being rude and unpleasant, there are plenty of nice players about too
Having ignored the tutorials and training, I went straight to an online matchmaking game. To Valve’s credit, matchmaking is simple, although it does take a while, and even then I found myself outmatched by the competition, despite starting out by declaring myself the n00bist of n00bs. After 30 minutes of getting owned and dying a lot though, I finally found how to buy items and recipes and with the n00b mode of the game levelling heroes evenly I didn't find the common situation of old where one hero became overly powerful and steam-rollered the game. We still lost, but I never felt that the game had become one sided. Even better, I wasn't called n00b, idiot, or feeder and no insinuations were made about my mother’s private life. Was I really playing DOTA?
While the learning curve is almost vertical, DOTA 2 is great fun
In my second game then I already felt that much more comfortable and made a much better fist of it, farming well and putting together a decent item build thanks to a quick load-screen Google search for a hero build guide. Again, the other players were courteous, although I’m not sure how much that had to do with the ominous warning at the start of the game to report all abusive players. At the end of the night, my interest in the game had been very much rekindled and while I still firmly class myself as a DOTA 2 rookie, the game felt much fresher, friendlier and more engaging than the Warcraft 3 mod I last played 4 years ago.
Have you played DOTA 2? Did you find the amount of data to learn intimidating? Have you encountered abusive or unfriendly players? Let me know in the comments.
Of course, DOTA and its ilk aren't for everyone. Best described as a player vs player MMO experience compressed down into a 55 minute strategy game, our own Joe Martin struggled with both League of Legends and Heroes of Newerth, similar (now also free-to-play) games in the DOTA mould, rolled into the hideously titled MOBA (multiplayer online battle arena) genre. There’s just one map, with the game’s variety coming from the combination of opposing heroes you face and the item build you use to combat them.
We're in their base, killin' their d00ds
It’s a game that’s frankly brutal to new comers; there are 92 different heroes, each with four different abilities and 159 different items with which to augment their stats and powers. That’s a frankly ludicrous amount of data for new players to take in, and I was in a more fortunate position of having at least played the game a fair bit years ago and having an idea of how some of the more popular heroes worked.
If I’d been a new player though, I’d have had little clue what to do and while there’s a practise mode vs. bots and an index of heroes and abilities, I don’t see how Valve can expect new players to sit through hours of practising before jumping online into a match-making game. Inviting uninitiated friends to play DOTA 2 online is like asking them to go on Mastermind and answer questions on the history of the Butternut Squash and its aerodynamic properties in zero gravity; no one’s going to have any fun, and everyone’s just going to get confused.
While many deride MOBA players for being rude and unpleasant, there are plenty of nice players about too
Having ignored the tutorials and training, I went straight to an online matchmaking game. To Valve’s credit, matchmaking is simple, although it does take a while, and even then I found myself outmatched by the competition, despite starting out by declaring myself the n00bist of n00bs. After 30 minutes of getting owned and dying a lot though, I finally found how to buy items and recipes and with the n00b mode of the game levelling heroes evenly I didn't find the common situation of old where one hero became overly powerful and steam-rollered the game. We still lost, but I never felt that the game had become one sided. Even better, I wasn't called n00b, idiot, or feeder and no insinuations were made about my mother’s private life. Was I really playing DOTA?
While the learning curve is almost vertical, DOTA 2 is great fun
In my second game then I already felt that much more comfortable and made a much better fist of it, farming well and putting together a decent item build thanks to a quick load-screen Google search for a hero build guide. Again, the other players were courteous, although I’m not sure how much that had to do with the ominous warning at the start of the game to report all abusive players. At the end of the night, my interest in the game had been very much rekindled and while I still firmly class myself as a DOTA 2 rookie, the game felt much fresher, friendlier and more engaging than the Warcraft 3 mod I last played 4 years ago.
Have you played DOTA 2? Did you find the amount of data to learn intimidating? Have you encountered abusive or unfriendly players? Let me know in the comments.
38 Comments
Discuss in the forums ReplyThe tutorial, training (can't recall the exact name) let me down because I thought it was a kind of interactive in-game tutorial but only to read about the heroes and items.
Haven't tried myself against the bots but will have to because being a support char like Lych isn't my kind of gameplay, I like to be in front swapping some punches :P
My opinion is that DOTA 2 is a great game and lots of free time needed to evolve since almost every match is up to 40 minutes long.
I guess you managed to miss all of the Russians then!
Good game though, only just got into it a few months ago when I got a beta invite, it is very hard to pick up but once you get there (topping the table in a given game with the best Kills/Deaths/Assists ratio) it's real good fun! However, once you hit that point you realise, again, that you are a massive noob.
This game does needs a ranking system of some sort though, I've been matched with some very pro players sometimes, rarely is a game ever evenly balanced. A single player tutorial wouldn't go amiss either.
I never thought you were expected to learn them all before trying to game "properly", more that you end up learning them by the time you reach a more "non-noob" level of playing.
Balancing it out, after playing about 100 games now, I have had some truly horrible players throw the worst kind of angry hate filled abuse at me, and yes they were mostly Russian.
Still in the minority though, most people behave,
DOTA 2 is still in beta of course; there's still plenty of learning and tutorial stuff to be added before it gets a full release. plus, you can play Bots now (although how to do so its't clearly advertised).
This! You must have been incredibly lucky, Harry. My first few games of Dota 2 were full of abuse - and I only played against bots then. Now a few games later I have found my favorite hero, who is totally overpowered against bots. Usually I get around 50% of the total kills on my team. The abuse is even worse now, especially from players from the eastern EU.
Sorry, but the DOTA community in general is the worst I have encountered, ever. If you feed people will insult you. If you get kills people will call you a kill stealer. If you support people will call you useless. It's ridiculous, really.
Either I will get a steady team on the higher levels that is only interested in playing a match or two in the evening and accept a loss, or I'll quit - just like LOL or the old DOTA.
I really wish they wouldn't make DOTA free to play but charge $20 or so and just offer people some free costume for their favorite or most successful hero so abusive players that are banned actually lose something and will not simply create a new account. Right now it will be Team Fortress 2 all over. The influx of abusive players was incredible when the game went free to play as well.
Oh, and everyone who is playing DOTA of you: Please do report abusive players.
Edit: It would be really great if we could set up some kind of bit-tech meet and greet where DOTA old-timers show the ropes to the new players such as me. :D
I would love that. If I had someone looking over my shoulder, so to speak, and guiding me on what I should or shouldn't do, I'm sure I'd enjoy it a lot more than the crap that normally goes on.
Right under the Find Match tab is the Coop Vs bots tab
It should have been called Verbal Assault.
When the mentors programme is up and running and its made alot more noob friendly it will be a totally winning game.
edit: kinghaves comment above is also one of the problems - people blame "the russians" for everything. Pretty offensive comments usually follow people speaking in russian, with crys of "omg why dont you speak english" etc.
Valve has always touted itself as being able to teach players how to do something in game without overbearing or boring instructions, then testing the new knowledge, then letting them loose with it. I don't know how they are going to be able to do that with DotA. I've watched videos on classes and how to lane push. I've watched many games, but I'm having a really hard time playing without feeling bad for my team.
Still, people were helpful and friendly and told me how to play very politely.
Also, I've heard the genre called Action RTS, which I like better, and is also recognized by wikipedia.
The learning curve is huge but well worth it.
You can learn all the info about it and still be bad. You gotta learn how to itemise and play vs teh other heros picked, its not a stock standard thing.
YOu get better by playing the game. Play each hero once and you will learn the heros.
Items are harder to figure out, and then how to use activeated items effectivlly is another story all together.
Great game but i do feel no tutorial or guide to basic functions like buying items and useing courier sets it back. I assume it will be in there b4 it goes f2p full release tho.
Ditch that game and head to Dota 2 man. League is like dota if they held your hand through everything and removed half the features of the game. A lot of the changes riot has been making to League come straight from dota, things that should have been in the game in the first place.
Also all the heroes are free all the time and theres a limit of one of each hero per match. No more laning against yourself.
Would you do this in any other game? You can mute anyone.
Community is fine, just get some friends to play with to start premades.
2)My main gripe with this game is that most games are effectively over by 30 mins and the game will still go on for another 20-30 mins
That goes away when you start getting into higher level games where both teams are competent. I think league is pretty bad about this compared to others. In dota, its common for a 30-10 match to turn around if the team play smart.
They have stated that there will be a tutorial on release. It really needs one.
There are so many ways to counter him that he rarely gets picked in pro play. Anyone can get a force staff and thats shuts him down pretty well. Shadow Shaman or Lion can turn people into animals for a whopping 4 seconds. I try and cast those abilities on him right after he uses activates his abilities. Keep in mind that's he is really good at taking out one person at a time so try and hit him while he's busy.
That said of course, the community isn't receptive to terribad players but neither is League tbh. If I wasn't so addicted to League (well rather just interested having played a decent amount now) the transition to DOTA 2 would be pretty quick as DOTA 2 probably has better balancing than League does.
That said of course, the community isn't receptive to terribad players but neither is League tbh. If I wasn't so addicted to League (well rather just interested having played a decent amount now) the transition to DOTA 2 would be pretty quick as DOTA 2 probably has better balancing than League does.
The biggest balance selling point for Dota, imo, is the fact that (at least currently) all heroes are available for free and there are no stat changing items. Should any hero be considered overpowered all players have equal access to it without having to pay cash, points, or reach a certain level. Likewise, any other heroes such as potential counters are equally available.
There's also the Captain's Mode game mode which allows for four heroes to be banned before anyone picks, so any imbalances that slip past can be removed from play. I'm not sure if LoL has such a game made, it's been ages since I played. (the fruity looking guy with the light beam spell was new, for reference!).
Been an avid dota player since forever, it's the only game I have ever played that is so vast and dynamic that I find it impossible to get bored of!
In case any new players are reading this, if you want to enjoy this game I highly recommend finding someone who knows what they are at and spending a few games together. Stick a post up on the gaming forum or something, it will help loads. Also people mentioning the lack of introduction or proper help, remember the game is still in beta and the tutorial section hasn't been done yet.
People worried about the abuse, tbh you just need to get to a certain skill level. Trust me once you've familiarized yourself enough and have an idea of what's going on, it is very easy to have awesome and encouraging games independent of the kind of players you are playing with. Like someone else has said, the community is fine. I haven't seen any abuse for ages tbh, people look out for each other and I've been having a great time winning or losing.
Sorry but that isn't the case. Sure you can get into a game with some pre-pubescent nightmare kids that won't stop chatting, but then that's what the mute system is for. If you are an absolute beginner then sure you may get abuse from frustrated teammates (I'm not condoning such behaviour at all), but mainly because DOTA is such a team-oriented game that having a bad teammate CAN result in making your own game miserable (for people that aren't very good themselves); and so I do recommend playing with people you know, at the very least spending time watching professional commentaries and reading a hero guide for one or two simple heroes and practising specific strategies against bots until you get a feel for it. A team of friends babysitting their beginner mate is fantastic fun :D
But like I said once you get a feel for the game it's wonderful. Once you know what is expected of your hero people won't call you out unless you actually do something woeful/unfair/wrong. I HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend you watch pro commentaries so you know exactly what your hero should be doing, if you try and work out this game from experience you are doomed to failure (or at least a long, difficult road). Reading and researching this game is a massive help if you want to have fun playing anytime within the year!
Anyhow, be mature and just take simple sporadic outbursts - e.g. someone is trying to get a kill on an enemy and you come from nowhere and finish them off yourself - if he insults you out of frustration just be mature about it, people do get emotional in this game but it's just like everything else in life. Give the benefit of the doubt. If the dude goes on about it just mute and get on with the game. I really don't see the community as a reason not to play Dota, not since I started playing and definitely not now.
tl dr;
Anyone can have great fun in this game the community is fine, but make sure you do your part and read and research about this game as well as playing. Just balance your playtime and research time. Watching pro commentaries is insane fun to boot!
Aim is to get to know what you actually need to be doing at all times (an experienced partner is the best teacher). If you don't take the time to work this out correctly, you aren't going to get the most from it.
Dota is a highly intellectual game! It needs an attentive mind and a lot of thinking going on at all times.
Enjoy the game! It's easy ;)
Just another one of the initially cryptic mechanics of the game which with a little practice becomes a deep well of strategy to add to your arsenal.
If you and your lane buddy attacks the creeps all the time you push your creeps onto the tower - you are too low level to do much damage to the tower and so low level it will mess you up if it hits you even once or twice. This allows the enemy to gain a bit of an xp advantage - essentially it means you are standing doing very little, or risking being in a dodgy position. Later on in the game it doesnt matter much as your hits hurt the tower and you can take a few hits from it.
You always ensure you last hit though, as you dont want to lose the gold. Always try and last hit your creeps too, in order to deny some xp and gold to your enemy :)
DotA is complicated :)
When you say mid do you mean mid-game time wise or mid lane? It always depends on your hero, but if you're talking mid lane Bottle is often a good item. Since it can store runes, and is refilled when a rune is stored, it's a great source of health and mana for a mid hero who should be checking runes anway. Just note that at 600g you won't be able to buy anything else at the start of the game. For this reason it's typically advised that you get stat items with only a little bit of regen to last you until you get the money to buy the Bottle. It's counter-intuitive, but getting stats at the start will give you much better last hit and deny potential making it actually easier to get the money.
Problem with that kind of question is it depends so much on what hero you have, as different items do the job better for different heroes. I mean you can buy a void stone for clinkz, but what will he turn it into later on?
In simple terms, if you hit the stagnation period with not enough cash flow and you know you need something, here's some short guidance:
HP needed: Bracer
Manapool and stats needed: Null Talisman
Damage and a bit of stats buff for agi heroes: Wraith Band
Those three are the most cost effective items for the gains, the only problem is that they take up inventory slots. If you don't believe me, try any carry hero with 4 wraith bands, treads and tp scroll build. As soon as you finish farming that (at an average farming speed) you are insanely powerful at THAT point in game, but you lose out on your late game prowess as you will have to sell them to buy proper tier 4 items. Definitely a beautiful fun build though :)
Now, for mana regen alone, bottle at any time is good if you are good enough to effectively grab runes (know timing, position yourself well to walk past them etc). Otherwise for early-mid game, you could get a Ring of Basilius. For proper mid game, the only mana regen item you want is a void stone (to turn into euls scepter or something interesting later on) but that is hero dependent.
In general, as a beginner your plan B should always be: Doing badly? Start buying null talismans, bracers, or wraith bands. A null tali provides enough mana pool and regen and extra stats for very cheap overall, and these three items work on ANY hero amazingly well.
If you play a carry, your plan B should be: Doing badly? get Sange and Yasha. In fact works on any Str or Agi hero that does at least some physical DPS.
Gist of it is, if doing badly then you want to forget heavy items requiring massive parts and go for easy-to-build items and HP.
Thats actually really good advise :) Not many people realise how good those items can be - 4 wraith bands and you have a rough eaglehorn equivalent in terms of agi, with some int and str thrown in.
Ive saved entire games before by just going back to basics, and you can always sell them when you are done.
Also 5000th post there Bogomip congrats ;)
That's why no one ever does it.
It's a superbly powerful mid game build, but it sacrifices your late game. You won't get the high tier items as fast.
I was saying that if you want to be the most powerful hero on the field mid game, go four wraiths :)
A fun example:
+10 all stats can be 530g with 10 Iron Branches, 2700g with 2 Belts of Strength, 2 Robes of the Magi and 2 Gloves of Elvenskin (the 450g Agi item, w/e the name is) or 3000g with an Ogre Club, Staff of Wizardry and Blade of Alacrity. The first you can't even carry but is by far the cheapest, the second fills your inventory but at significantly higher cost, and the third frees up three slots at a 300g premium.