Is the Age of Massive PCs at an End?
Posted on 5th Nov 2011 at 12:26 by Antony Leather with 59 comments
In the 15-odd years I've been building my own PCs, all my main systems have invariably been housed in large towers. Whether this was because they needed to accommodate multiple hard disks when I was experimenting with RAID, or to fit water-cooling hardware inside, my cases have got perpetually larger.
It’s now got to the point where I own one of the largest PC cases ever made – the Lian Li V2000. I’ve currently got a quad 120mm-fan radiator and a triple 120mm-fan radiator in a single loop, cooling my BIOS-modded HD 5870 1GB, overclocked Intel Core i7-975 and Gigabyte GA-X58 UD7 with a full-cover waterblock. This enables me to have a near-silent system, as the seven 120mm fans spin at a very low rpm, but still offer enough cooling power to enable sky-high overclocks. However, the case feels like it takes up half of the room.
While my current system is also still part of an on-going modding project, I’ve had a real hankering to do something completely different to the norm – my norm anyway. I want a smaller PC, but not just something half or even a quarter of the size of my giant V2000. I want something that’s not much bigger than a shoebox, but still water-cooled and able to pack a powerful punch.
Thankfully, I’ve already built quite a few mini water-cooled PCs in my time, so I know this won’t be an issue. I've also had projects such as Phinix Nano Tower for some excellent inspiration, showing what can be achieved with modern hardware. Also, the GTX 560 Ti can be found with trimmed PCBs, so there are also respectable graphics options. The limiting factor has been the motherboard – having built numerous mini-ITX systems in the past, including a couple of water-cooled machines – I really want to see just how small I can make my PC.
This question was answered by the guys at Zotac, who recently released the Zotac Z68 Mini-ITX WiFi – the first Z68-based mini-ITX board that can access K-series CPUs' unlocked multipliers.
Combined with an overclocked Core i5-2500K, the system should pack enough punch to deal with the games I throw at it (a bit of Bad Company 2 with a smattering of World of Tanks and some flight sims). What's more, while 8GB kits of memory are available for less than £40, I could also use it to help with the increasing amount of photo editing I do in my spare time.
Half of me thinks I should stick with big towers, though. They allow you the greatest flexibility when it comes to building big, powerful systems with exotic cooling. They also look cool. Maybe my urges are just my way of coming out in sympathy with the world economy – downsizing, shedding extra baggage, becoming more efficient? But seeing as Intel’s latest CPUs are so power efficient and don’t need oversized cooling systems to achieve large overclocks, I really don't think that a powerful system needs to be big any more.
Are small PCs the future? Should I downsize? Let us know your thoughts in the forum.
It’s now got to the point where I own one of the largest PC cases ever made – the Lian Li V2000. I’ve currently got a quad 120mm-fan radiator and a triple 120mm-fan radiator in a single loop, cooling my BIOS-modded HD 5870 1GB, overclocked Intel Core i7-975 and Gigabyte GA-X58 UD7 with a full-cover waterblock. This enables me to have a near-silent system, as the seven 120mm fans spin at a very low rpm, but still offer enough cooling power to enable sky-high overclocks. However, the case feels like it takes up half of the room.
While my current system is also still part of an on-going modding project, I’ve had a real hankering to do something completely different to the norm – my norm anyway. I want a smaller PC, but not just something half or even a quarter of the size of my giant V2000. I want something that’s not much bigger than a shoebox, but still water-cooled and able to pack a powerful punch.
Thankfully, I’ve already built quite a few mini water-cooled PCs in my time, so I know this won’t be an issue. I've also had projects such as Phinix Nano Tower for some excellent inspiration, showing what can be achieved with modern hardware. Also, the GTX 560 Ti can be found with trimmed PCBs, so there are also respectable graphics options. The limiting factor has been the motherboard – having built numerous mini-ITX systems in the past, including a couple of water-cooled machines – I really want to see just how small I can make my PC.
This question was answered by the guys at Zotac, who recently released the Zotac Z68 Mini-ITX WiFi – the first Z68-based mini-ITX board that can access K-series CPUs' unlocked multipliers.
Zotac's Z68 Mini-ITX WiFi can push K-series Sandy Bridge CPUs nearly as far as the best boards we've seen
Combined with an overclocked Core i5-2500K, the system should pack enough punch to deal with the games I throw at it (a bit of Bad Company 2 with a smattering of World of Tanks and some flight sims). What's more, while 8GB kits of memory are available for less than £40, I could also use it to help with the increasing amount of photo editing I do in my spare time.
Half of me thinks I should stick with big towers, though. They allow you the greatest flexibility when it comes to building big, powerful systems with exotic cooling. They also look cool. Maybe my urges are just my way of coming out in sympathy with the world economy – downsizing, shedding extra baggage, becoming more efficient? But seeing as Intel’s latest CPUs are so power efficient and don’t need oversized cooling systems to achieve large overclocks, I really don't think that a powerful system needs to be big any more.
Are small PCs the future? Should I downsize? Let us know your thoughts in the forum.
59 Comments
Discuss in the forums ReplyWith the multitide of options available for NAS in so many forms having a large beast of a case seems so archaic. Why have a monolith when you can have something far more sublime?
If you really need something more for localised storage have you considered a more modular apparoach? How about putting that tiny Zotac in it's own tiny custom enclosure with just an OS drive and make a matching one for an external hard drive or even modded NAS box to plug in to it for all your extra storage.
One thing I have been considering trying myself is to use the smaller form factor of something like the Zotac and going with a Network Boot option and completely forego localised storage altogether. With a 1Gb wired connection or Wireless N this should prove fast enough for most situations, though I don't know how this would affect more intensive tasks.
i7-2660k, 8Gb DDR3, Zotac Z68 Mini-ITX WiFi Mainboard,
Zotac N480, 2Tb Hdd (will be donating that to family when the 4Tb's come out), Crucial 512Gb SSD, XP-140 Thermalright heatsink (god it only just fits), Slot loading Bluray Drive, AND I still managed to fit a coolermaster GX750 Psu.... without cutting wires. Now I can go lanning without a forklift. until i move the 27" monitor.
TBH I'm looking at embracing the cloud computing model with 1 large box at home that does the heavy lifting so to speak. That would allow a smaller desktop PC that is focused on the GPU rather than everything having to be brilliant and crammed full of all my disks, tv tuners etc.
I think both are suited to different needs and having the ability to make a small neat PC is a huge advantage and preferable option, its like choosing a people carrier over a citron C1. The citron is preferable since its more efficient, yet I still have the need to carry things on occasions ie. My large box.
Witht the introduction of mini ITX boards capable of running "normal" CPUs and PCIe x16 GPUs the possibilities for building a very small gaming-rig not using Shuttle-barebones instantly catched my interest.
I got to say, that I'm not interested in overclocking or Crossfire/SLI. There's no need for that actually, as usual hardware is capable enough of playing games or running graphics-software, etc. Crunching numbers isn't exactly that interesting for me, and for me a PC should be first and foremost as efficient as possible.
What's efficient for me? Well... efficiency for me is based on three things: price vs performance, powerconsumption and size.
This way the most efficient PC has to be cheap, but still capable of running all the tasks you throw at it, while drawing as little power as possible. And the size makes it more efficient, because you need less ressources for the parts (boards, case, etc).
If you look at my sig, you'll notice, that I'm totally down that road allready :)
It is very possible to build a small and powerful rig but as Parge says above, it is very hard to make it tidy.
The problem at the moment is that 1080p doesn't require high-end, and hence the space or cooling. If more 2k (or better 4k) displays were available, then the PC would be behind the displays, and big cases to fit watercooling and dual/triple gpu's etc would be needed.
Eventually, though, shoebox size cabinets probably will become standard, as hardware develops.
I went for my FT03 as it has a very small footprint (admittedly it's reasonably tall), but still fits a full GTX 580 (or two!) and mATX board with all the trimmings. Far better choice than full ATX, the only features I've lost are multiple PCIe slots that wouldn't have been used anyway.
The more normal folk who move to tiny cases, the cooler great big f***ing cases will be for us real men!
With the TT Tsunami, I did use all PCI, AGP slots and all the front slots. I even moded a LED switch onto the unused floppy slot.
With the Antec 300: 2 HDD (more space than all 5 HDD on my TT), one media burner, One PCI-card, aftermarket CPU cooler. full 5 gb ram, thats it. The entire system runs cool under 40C OC with the optional fan bays provided on the case.
If possible, I would like a case, where the entire side wall is one huge fan, say 25-40 cm square case, and that is the only case fan. One thing big cases offer is ease during building process. There are tons of space so you can't really go wrong with the cabling. Smaller case, tighter cables, poor airflow.
On another note, maybe bit-tech should consider a SFF build in the affordable, enthusiast, etc monthly builds?
Obsessed with size huh? Are trying to compensate for something?!
haha lol j/k man, sure big has its advantages, and I don't have anything against that.
But small is where its at for me. Fitting your system (whatever it is used for) into a small space adds an extra level of challenge to modding which I love.
SFF modding is cool as, expecially retro-modding of older computers where you can only fit ITX board.
Here's a shameless plug for the LOSIAS forums
Anyone who likes SFF computing should stop by!
This. Love my hulking monolith.
Although there are some good uATX mobos out there, I want a full motherboard with full connectivity. I dont want some cut-down crippled system (if I wanted that I'd have a console).
Oh and I have laughed at somewhat stupid friends who bought small computer cases then said "I'm not sure if this or that graphics card will fit in my case?"
I told them to wise up and buy a full tower case. One friend is somewhat retarded and never takes advice unless it's from noobs on forums, the other wised up very quickly and has a Cosmos full tower like me. I wouldnt mind a new case now because there are things that could be improved on the cosmos RC1 but I am without motherboard or cpu at the moment so it doesn't matter.
I was going to buy 1155 mobo and i5 2500k but maybe I will wait now and see how much x79 will cost?
It would be awesome to try fit a mITX build alongside a Xbox and PS3 all in one massive modded case.
Might look into that if I get time...
First: People think small PC's always equates to smaller power draw but they leave them on all the time, saving now power if they don't turn it off. Second: They need it to fit in a smaller area, such as a childs room, apartments or use as a Media Center PC. Three: Holiday sales, they are being sold for cheap (probably over stock from lack of sales earlier in the year) and make a some what inexpensive gift for those who have asked for a new computer this holiday season.
These are the only reasons why I think they are selling well, but to say that all PC's are going smaller is a incorrect assessment of the buyers needs/opportunities of sales vs the PC standard of mid to full towers. We saw rise to these with great fan fair in like 2007 and 2009 (and now 2011) then these sales dropped off, now they are peaking again but what happened between those years? Sales for PC's went up on average from HP, Dell and etc, with the standard sizes of mid tower to full tower cases. This concludes me to think, there are reasons to have one, but not because the market demands them over all.
So I switched to a smaller form factor and have never looked back. There have been the odd occasion when I have had to consider the dimensions of a graphics card but that has usually only been because its a newer model and the manufacturers have not got around to creating a smaller form factor for it. Wait 6 months and I end up with the same card, smaller size and usually one that ends up cheaper, runs cooler, quieter and draws less power than the original.
I personally have no need to have a PC that requires or uses an excessive amount of power to run or that has any need to have it's own raid array or multiple drives. I much prefer the networked approach with remote storage, NAS or similar options that don't limit me to having to rebuild raid arrays.
With de-centralised storage, upgrading is easier and if one machine dies or needs upgrading then only that machine is affected, all my data is kept separate from the OS so it doesn't matter whether it's a PC, MAC or Linux box.
The use of a small form factor case or even HTPC box for me also fits in better with the room it is in rather than some huge behemoth that dominates it. For me the PC at least should fit the room not have to have a room built to house the PC.
Me? Couldn't live without a hulking behemoth for my gaming rig, so easy to work with and tidy up and all of the 120mm fans keep it nice and quiet but ever since building a mITX HTPC I've been convinced that for most other applications I don't need the size.
2001
Athlon Thunderbird 1200Mhz
AMD 760 DDR chipset
Geforce 3
512MB of PC2100
40GB HD
17″ CRT monitor
2002
Athlon Thoroughbred 1733MHz (run at 2000MHz)
Nvidia nForce2 chipset
Geforce 4 Ti4200
512MB of PC3200 (run at 200MHz)
40GB HD
17″ CRT monitor
2003
Athlon 64 2000MHz
Nvidia nForce4 chipset (shuttle case)
Nvidia 6600GT
1024MB of PC3200
160GB HD
20″ Dell widescreen TFT
2004
Athlon 64 X2 2000MHz
Nvidia 6150 chipset (Silverstone Sugo 01e case)
Nvidia 7900GT (similar to the PS3 RSX)
1024MB of PC3200
250GB HD
20″ Dell widescreen TFT
2006 (PLAYSTATION 3 ERA)
Intel C2D 2400MHz
Intel P965 chipset (Silverstone Lascala LC16 case)
Nvidia 7950 512MB passive
2048MB of PC6400
320GB HD + 320GB data
24″ Dell widescreen TFT
2008
Intel C2Q 2660MHz
Intel G33 chipset (Silverstone Sugo 03 case)
Nvidia 9800GX2
4096MB of PC6400
500GB HD + 1TB data
24″ Dell widescreen TFT
2010
AMD X6 3200MHz (runs at 3600MHz + turbo)
AMD 890FX chipset (Silverstone FT02 case)
AMD 5870 2GB VaporX
8192MB of PC 12800
128GB SSD + 2x 2TB data
3x 24″ Dell widescreen TFT
im a sucker for SIlverstone cases! :D
I think my next will use the Fortress 03 mATX case.
Still all watercooled but its a LOT smaller and im loving the extra space at the moment.
I like having the available option of going sli if I ever fancied it & really like good quality audio so 1 expansion slot doesn't cut it for me really if I wanted an all in 1 system, as a bare minimal for an all round PC I think I'd have to go for micro-ATX so I could have good gpu, sound & maybe a tv tuner or sata controller.
If I chose to do a pure htpc I think I'd use the 1 slot on mini-ITX for a good sound card but wouldn't go with mini-ITX for an all round system, I know you could put a good gpu in & 8GB & core i7 etc but if I wanted that type of rig I'd stay with at least micro-ATX so it's a better all rounder which has a bit of wiggle room for upgrades.
But I love having a super easy maintanence rig plus you can still go massive while keeping the desk space minimal, just go tall & keep the bulk of weight at the bottom (hdd's, psu) & it really changes the idea of a massive rig ;) or does for me at least.
I've been wanting to do a tiny ultra low power rig for some time though for stuff like this & watching media, it's nice having an all in 1 case where you can do anything you want on it but have also thought of making a dual rig, 1 a high capacity very low power draw htpc & the other a pure gaming power rig to keep the juice usage low for typical computer use or the more power hungry side just when I want to game or design etc which is a minimal amount of my computer usage time.
So final verdict to the article from me is big rigs & small rigs have their use & I intend to use both but will stay with my big all rounder rig for the time being :).
until the next wave of consoles, yes
:D Agreed, having motherboard in horizontal position is so nice for maintenance & best way I think especially if you use a heavy heatsink, I'd have loved to used the thermalright TRUE copper LE sink on my latest but weighs a lot for vertical setup.
But wow wow wow a few mountain mods cubes bolted together :) your mad :D got a picture of that? ;).
Not as long as there are people who have hands too large to manipulate small components. Not as long as there are people that cannot see small components well enough to manipulate them into their correct orientation. Not as long as people are arthritic and need larger components to easily assemble them into a working unit. Not as long as there are people who are proud enough of their computers that they wish them to be seen, in either external &/or internal views. Not as long as people feel the need to have a properly cooled computer system.
The only thing(s) that will end the Age of Massive PC's are the manufacturers of the components, who meet together, (they do that you know, it's called industrial standardization,) and decide to no longer produce the components that PC builders use, in the large sizes. As is quite usual, this will occur simply out of greed. At first it may cost too much to produce proper small components. One day it will be discovered how to massively produce these items in a small form that will be cheap enough to do so, while still maintaining the usefulness of these components. What the consumers actually want be damned. You'll either take it or leave it. You'll take it, of course. You'll have no choice. What the consumer actually wants does not and never has been of any great consequence. The almighty dollar is the driving force behind any innovation, whether it is ever admitted to or not.
So, this is not the end of the Age of Massive PC's. To be quite honest, it was a rather stupid question to begin with and should never have been published by bit-tech or anyone else.
Long winded, but I agree.
Not only have board sizes diminished, but it used to be you had a separate sound card, separate nic, separate video card, several hard drives, maybe a dual rom... Most office/home systems today need none of that. As enthusiasts we used large cave size cases so we could get to all of those components without performing difficult yoga positions to reach everything or fit water cooling because cooling systems stunk.
Today, most of your parts are built in (often even video), we don't need a ton of drives, and air cooling is plenty capable. There are fewer parts to change or fail and less reason to open the box.
Are big boxes dead?
No, but they can be if you want.
You're certainly right about that. Completely unintentional. This Hawaiian coffee I've been ordering from Kona must be much stronger than it tastes.
So smaller desktops? Yes, definitely.
Massive Pc though, seems debatable. Is massive a size? Or an ability. If it is the latter, then no.
PC will own from now until the near future. But will desktop (size) shrink in general? Yes.
I plan to make my next rig even bigger so that it is easier to change out parts I want to make it a modular rack mount design. Instead of having a normal case for HDDs I will just use a rackmount SAS backplane hotswap. The cooling system and everything will be in their own rackmountable boxes so you can easily access what you want without disturbing the rest of the equipment. Also makes it easier and faster to swap sections.
Basically the more critical my main rig is the more I will be building it closer and closer to super computer specs and that is something that takes a lot of space.
Get yourself a small, low power server (spare parts?) and offload your data storage. Gigabit ethernet is nearly as fast as an older hard drive, so large file transfers are plenty fast.
You could also consider replacing the smaller drives with a single larger drive. You can recover much of your investment with savings on your electric bill in a single year.
Also try keeping a small case cool in the summer especially an overclocked one. Even water cooling would struggle with what in most cases would be a single 120-140mm rad setup air cooling would be a nightmare.
I can see its appeal im sat here with my 20in monitor and a case which makes it look small sat beside it. something like an FT02 would be ideal but, i like my massive back breaking case what else could you chuck all the kit i have in my sig in?
My living room is another matter entirely. Ive a Zoltac Zbox hooked up to a NAS ticks all the boxes and doesn't take up much space.
I think what ever size or form factor you take you will have to make a sacrifice, big PC's give huge amounts of power and coolness but then mini pc's can be very cool and also save a hell of a lot of space.
Horses for courses at the end of the day.
It just seemed pointless.
Also, small doesn't necessarily equal hot.
It's a matter of airflow, big cases need lots of cfm just to cover the large cubic footage. You pump in lots of air in order to get enough air flow over the scattered components. In a small case the fans are closer and have more direct airflow over each component as opposed to just flowing through empty sections of case.
Large cases are simple, if you need more air, add more fans or vents. Small cases need to have airflow taken more seriously during the design phase. Done right, you still get the same amount of airflow over each component, it's just done more efficient with fewer fans.
One high performance gaming rig and one low power rig for web and daily use.
Right now I have a Core2quad q6600 oc'd to 3.4 ghz full time running 24/7. I estimate this costs me 10-20$usd per month in electricity, based on my ups backups software monitor (and much more in the summer when the a/c has to overcompensate for the rigs heat). I have been wanting for a while to build a small mini-itx, probably using a Fusion, for my daily use, htpc, torrenting, web use, file serving for my devices/wife's macbook over wifi. I think it would pay for itself in a year in electricity savings.
I guess u haven't lived on the cutting edge of gaming.
Flight Sim X with HD scenery addons.
http://fullterrain.com/
It doesn't take PC long to catch-up with console. 1 year perhaps. Consoles quickly become overtaken by PC.
No.
http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/305722_283655551673124_177984762240204_759136_1538132929_n.jpg
:) ;)