Who actually uses water cooling grommets?
Posted on 30th Jul 2010 at 10:22 by Paul Goodhead with 83 comments
This blog post stems from a conversation Clive and I had the other day about the water cooling grommets we’re seeing on most cases these days. If you’re not sure what I’m on about a water cooling grommet is a rubber-lined, circular cut-out in the back of a case that appears to be designed to have water cooling tubing passed through it.
The crux of the conversation was essentially the question of whether anyone actually uses these grommets, and if they could actually be considered a feature when it comes to calculating a case's feature score in a review. My argument is that they shouldn't be counted and I’ll explain why.
It’s clear that in the majority of cases the grommets are meant for use with an external 120mm radiator. The problem is I can’t work out why or when anyone would actually use an external 120mm radiator.
Water cooling is a complex, time consuming and expensive way to cool a PC; three factors that ensure a water cooled build is rarely rushed into. As a result I can’t work out why a computer enthusiast who’s taken the time to carefully put together the component for his build would choose to use an external radiator.
For a start it would compromise not only the noise of the system but also the aesthetics of the build. It gives the build an amateur look, as it gives the impression of the water cooling just being ‘tacked on’ like some kind of afterthought.
WHAT ARE YOU FOR?!?!??
I understand the argument that an external radiator can be useful when there isn’t sufficient room inside a case, but surely anyone who takes their hardware seriously enough to water cool it would pick a suitably sized case for the task. Paradoxically most high-end cases that include these grommets are huge anyway, with space inside for double or even triple 120mm radiators.
What bends my brain even more is when cheap cases such as the Sharkoon Rebel 9 have grommets on them. Is someone who's buying a cheap, flimsy case really going to be water cooling their components? Of course not.
I think the water cooling grommet has become something that manufacturers add to cheap, tacky cases in an effort to give them vaguely enthusiast leanings - “hey, you could totally add an external radiator to me, I’m sooooo extreme” (ignoring my cheap materials and shoddy build quality).
Unfortunately it then looks like enthusiast cases such as the Antec Dark Fleet and the HAF X feel the need to make sure they have grommets on too, probably because it wouldn't look good if they didn’t have the features of a £50 case. This completes the circle and makes the whole cycle perpetuate itself.
This is even more bonkers when you realise you’d have to be a lunatic to mount an external radiator on either of these cases as they have more than enough space inside to accommodate one or maybe two dual radiators.
As you can see it’s a topic that baffles me, but I’d be intrigued to know if anyone actually uses the water cooling grommets on their case. Maybe you can show me that they are actually useful for something after all. Let us know your thoughts in the forums.
The crux of the conversation was essentially the question of whether anyone actually uses these grommets, and if they could actually be considered a feature when it comes to calculating a case's feature score in a review. My argument is that they shouldn't be counted and I’ll explain why.
It’s clear that in the majority of cases the grommets are meant for use with an external 120mm radiator. The problem is I can’t work out why or when anyone would actually use an external 120mm radiator.
Water cooling is a complex, time consuming and expensive way to cool a PC; three factors that ensure a water cooled build is rarely rushed into. As a result I can’t work out why a computer enthusiast who’s taken the time to carefully put together the component for his build would choose to use an external radiator.
For a start it would compromise not only the noise of the system but also the aesthetics of the build. It gives the build an amateur look, as it gives the impression of the water cooling just being ‘tacked on’ like some kind of afterthought.
WHAT ARE YOU FOR?!?!??
I understand the argument that an external radiator can be useful when there isn’t sufficient room inside a case, but surely anyone who takes their hardware seriously enough to water cool it would pick a suitably sized case for the task. Paradoxically most high-end cases that include these grommets are huge anyway, with space inside for double or even triple 120mm radiators.
What bends my brain even more is when cheap cases such as the Sharkoon Rebel 9 have grommets on them. Is someone who's buying a cheap, flimsy case really going to be water cooling their components? Of course not.
I think the water cooling grommet has become something that manufacturers add to cheap, tacky cases in an effort to give them vaguely enthusiast leanings - “hey, you could totally add an external radiator to me, I’m sooooo extreme” (ignoring my cheap materials and shoddy build quality).
Unfortunately it then looks like enthusiast cases such as the Antec Dark Fleet and the HAF X feel the need to make sure they have grommets on too, probably because it wouldn't look good if they didn’t have the features of a £50 case. This completes the circle and makes the whole cycle perpetuate itself.
This is even more bonkers when you realise you’d have to be a lunatic to mount an external radiator on either of these cases as they have more than enough space inside to accommodate one or maybe two dual radiators.
As you can see it’s a topic that baffles me, but I’d be intrigued to know if anyone actually uses the water cooling grommets on their case. Maybe you can show me that they are actually useful for something after all. Let us know your thoughts in the forums.
83 Comments
Discuss in the forums ReplyBut I was actually considering routing the tubing to the outside of the case from another spot anyway (and could have, but I didn't have the necessary tools handy. Someday...)
I did use two when I had an external res for a while, once upon a time, but never for radiator mounting.
Did the same on my 800D, perfect fit for the switches.
The last case I built to use it was a chipboard monstrosity, amateur doesnt even come close to describing it, but it worked very well. I bought a Cosmos Sport which does have grometts, wasn't my key consideration when I bought it, but I was pleasantly surprised when I saw them, as when I do eventually get it all setup again it means I won't have to bolt this monster to the side of my case and can sit it in a housing of it's own next to it, or even do a manifold setup.
Grometts also give you the option of having an external fill and bleed port, which is a good option really, and as someone already stated, chiller possibilities. There is also the manifold watercooling option, for people like me who may have a giant rad and multiple machines.
Do I think extra marks should be give for grometts, probably yes but only 0.01 say. There not essential, but it's nice that they are considered.
My rad sucks in cool outside air.
My Cosmos 1000 case has the rubber grommets and I make use of them to protect the tubing. I had to cut the flaps of the grommets because my tubing is 12mm ID 3mm thickness.
Needless to say my water system can cool an overclocked i7 much cooler than a conventional water setup.
Sod cooling and noise performance, that's not what people water cool for!
My 800d has grommets on the back of it,they sit obstructed by the rx360 which is in the roof. I do use the grommets that are in the shelf though, as I've got a rad in the bottom of the case too.
i have a 120x3 mounted on the top of the case and a giant tube res on the side
i dont care if it looks neat or whatever, its easier to mount like this than internally, requires less cutting/modding of the case and is more effective due to not using hot internal case air
basically im lazy and external is simpler and more effective
the only reason not to is you're (too ;)) bothered about the aesthetics of the black box that sits under your desk :p
as far as reviewing goes, i wouldnt say they should really affect the score but its not like they are a difficult or expensive thing to add to a case
drill hole, apply rubber, done
http://www.frools.net/rad.jpg
Such a big case and the rad and res would not fit inside? I fitted a res/2x120 rad/pump and fanbus into a LianLI PC60 (old model) and that is a SMALL fit.
Some people probably rather like the idea of being able to see all the tubing in action.
my experience is the p182 is like a reverse tardis. Looks big on the outside, but there isnt much space inside, and quite difficult to work in.
Any well thought out, well designed watercooled system should have direct external air access to the rad through a side or front panel and if you have to change the components you want to allow for budgetary considerations then your doing it wrong, get the parts you want, never cut corners, you'll regret it in the end, just save for an extra month or two.
I use them, although probably in a different way.
I run a molex cable out of my PC through them.
I have a pair of external hard drives that require 12v/5v dual rail power. The cheap bricks they included both failed, so I chopped a male molex connector on the end instead, and power them from inside the case.
I also have a homebuilt LED that requires ~2.5 amps at 12v. I don't have a brick that can do that, so I put on a male molex connector and run it off the power supply if I need to.
Before, I would either run a PSU sitting on my desk, with the green wire bridged to the black wire (when I was using it with a laptop) and then when I had a desktop, I punched out a PCI slot cover and run a molex through it.
It might not add much for everyone, but if you end up having to run cables in and out of the case, it's a really convenient thing to have. It doesn't hurt anything to have the option, even if most people don't use them.
did you not read the bit where i said i put it outside because its easier? ;)
im sure it would fit inside, i just don't want to go through the effort of squeezing it in
edit: the rad would fit anyway, i'd lose a 5.25 bay or 2 but i dont use them anyway
that res i dont think would though
Water cooling is really great when you use the fact that the water can move the heat out of the case to something with serious heat dissipation properties e.g. your huge triple 120mm fan radiator.
Why are you guys not getting this? ;D
Although aesthetically it often looks nicer, I've never been a fan (no pun intended) of rads that exhaust hot air to the case's interior. So . . . if you can't fit in a big rad in a position that exhausts to the exterior, a whole or partially outside mount is the way to go for performance, IMO.
My current build is going with a top mounted XSPC 360 rad that protrudes to the exterior. Why? I'm using it in push-pull with shrouds, and there just isn't space for the entire set-up between the mobo tray and the roof (and this is in a cavernous ATCS 840). I want it to exhaust to the outside . . .so it and the exhaust-side fans must protrude through the roof. Sure, I'll encase it in some kind of plexi housing and make it blend in, but it's still an exterior mount.
I maintain that there ARE some good reasons to mount rads outside.
-Tuthmose
Your lack of understanding of specific heat capacity clearly shows you're not a physicist.
And perhaps you should leave making statements about thermodynamics to the professionals.
The TJ07 has massive cooling potential in the first place - you can fit a quad rad in the bottom and a triple in the top, disregarding all other spaces (front bays, rear exhausts etc). In a worst case scenario, this would give the system 7/9 the radiator volume of a much uglier external radiator.
Furthermore, the link you posted is self-defeating - there are no such rubber grommets included with the TJ-07, it's much more useful to (if you're watercooling) drill your own where you want them, which would give you the freedom to use features such as dry valves such as the ones used in the pc you posted.
Even within the watercooling community, the number of people who use extermal rads is tiny, nowhere near enough to justify putting them on so many different cases. If you're externally mounting your radiator you're likely modding at the same time, if you're modding you could probably do a better job by drilling your own holes.
me too, they're perfect :D
only thing they're good for imo
In such an case it's not a must for every part of it to be perfect and gromments don't mess the design.
And if you buy cheap case, you may also buy cheap LC ex. from used parts, and in these cheap sets there are also home-made external radiators.
got a p182
In the 182 I would have used them to run hose to the exterior reservoir/filler I mounted, but I wanted that up high so they were useless.
In the 840 There were in the perfect spot for plumbing to an external filler/reservoir, but since I mounted a 360mm rad inside the case, it hangs down too low and obscures the 2 holes on the 840. So they too are useless to me.
What's really amusing is, as I recall, either the Antec D800 or the new Dark Forces cases have a depression for this that's drill out to about 1/4" or so, making them both useless and stupid looking.
Exactly, its as if they just put them where there is unused space, rather than thinking out good positions (ie gimmick). It's far better for the end user to drill them where they want them, because it gives more freedom.
The argument was put out very well in this blog post - what's the point in buying expensive watercooling gear if you're just using a low quality case? Even cheap setups will cost at least £150, at which point the difference between a cheapo case that has holes at the back and a nice case with room for radiator mounting becomes much smaller - for example the difference between the Rebel 9 and a good watercooling case is about £40 - you might as well just spend the money and get a nice case.
If you're spending £30 cooling your PC, it seems fair enough to buy a cheap case - if however you're getting a £150 WC setup (£200+ new) you might as well save up and get a nicer case to put it in.
It seems to me like a 'feature' that can be slapped on for 50 cents, so manufacturers think why not. I don't blame them.
Didn't Bit-Tech itself use a pair of grommets to attach the Hailea HC-500A water chiller to Project Beast? It's hard to be sure, but it kinda looks that way from the pics. . .
Just sayin', is all . . . :D
-Tuthmose
"I suppose it would be handy if you had one of those old Zalman Reserator's. >>>>>Or maybe a water chiller.<<<<< "
Quite.
For a start it would compromise not only the noise of the system but also the aesthetics of the build. It gives the build an amateur look, as it gives the impression of the water cooling just being tacked on like some kind of afterthought."
Stupidest comment EVER made on all the internets!
:(
where did you find this guy?
out the back of best buy crying?
Same, perfect fit and out of sight too.
Honestly, what's wrong with them? They're there if you need them, and if you don't, just forget about them. They don't put them on the front of the case do they?
A nice case of complaining about nothing.
Better pass an external radiator with hoses only. That would be lans :)
I think that when people buy a case like the antec 182 they don't think about water-cooling, but only after they relies the benefits and fun of watercooling they choose to fix a double or triple radiator outside. After all that case costs £110+ and I don't think someone would throw that case away (given that you don't have friends or younger siblings who are interested in it)
How is it stupid? Personally, I've seen only one or two good mods that have made use of external radiators, and they've usually been done on high end cases, the sorts that wouldn't have the grommets anyway.
The Antec Pxxx series is the exception to the rule - they're massive yet have very little room for anything inside.
OP quote "As a result I cant work out why a computer enthusiast whos taken the time to carefully put together the component for his build would choose to use an external radiator.
For a start it would compromise not only the noise of the system but also the aesthetics of the build. It gives the build an amateur look, as it gives the impression of the water cooling just being tacked on like some kind of afterthought."
The option for external or internal rad is purely personal. Hence the conclusion that external rad is "amateur" and that it will negatively impact noise and aesthetics is a stupid statement. As is the entire article IMHO. I realize theres not much new kit around but ganging up on grommets?? really?
As mentioned by others, one of the greatest advantages of WC is being able to move the heat away from the parts creating it. It therefore is only logical that moving it to outside the case is a GOOD idea.
Then there is a safety aspect, alot of PSUs are now mounted to the bottom of the case.
Where will a leak go?
I have a lian-li x2000 tyr, BIG case, Lotsa room. still no room for a rad/pump/res.
I still use an original Zalman Reserator (original pump replaced with larger model) inline with a 360 rad. the reserator acts as just a res/pump combo. If my rad fans ever failed I know the reserator could handle my cpu on its own. (E8600. 2 x 4870s in cf are on air..damn your stock levels GAM!)
edit: My case has 4 grommets, I use 2 for wc, and the other 2 I have rigged 2 usb led snakelights from external usb through the grommets to light my flowmeter. I could have had them plugged into a hub or pci card internally..but then all the hardware would be visible. The grommets were PERFECT! :D
I rebuild and remod my rig often. But never would I consider mounting any of the WC inside.
Just doesn't make sense.
Leaks are fatal.
Cooling capacity reduced
Cramped conditions, (ever had to drain a wc to change a hdd or ram?!)
Jamming a 360 rad into a pc case not designed for it looks "tacked on"
Writing a negative article without properly researching it looks amateur...
Your mom. Discussion over.
Yes, but that argument is incorrect merely because whilst aesthetics are a personal decision, there will always be some 'ugly' decisions for just about everyone. For example, a massive aircon unit on the side of a house will never be seen as pretty or a good decision.
It depends on your definition of good. Personally, I'd want my system to be a self-contained unit, so I can move it around without worrying about cutting cables and the like. That's why I don't use a test bench. Furthermore, I'd think it much better (aesthetically) if my radiators were inside the case - it just makes the achievement that little bit more amazing.
To the power supply, where it will immediately trip the fuse unless you have used non-conductive fluid, as most people do. You seem to assume that if you use watercooling, you will spring a leak at some point. Unless you're total **** at installing watercooling gear or have some faulty components (and watercooling has gone a long way past the Thermaltake bigwaters) your watercooling will likely last quite a while with little maintenance. Furthermore, the radiator is only one potential point of failure. If you think about it sensibly for a second or two, if you have your graphics cards, your CPU and your northbridge cooled (with a reservoir), you'll have at least 10 tubes that are inside your case, which could explode dramatically at any time. Placing the rads and pump outside the case only means that four of the fittings are not inside the case - it doesn't mean that any failure will not happen. It's a stupid argument.
Yes there is... I just googled 'lian li x2000 tyr watercooling' and got this:
http://www.overclock.net/attachments/case-mod-work-logs/114187d1246452863-lian-li-tyr-pc-x2000-new-side2.jpg
That's a pretty lame watercooling setup - You could fit larger radiators there also if you did a bit of modding. Remove a drive rack and you can fit a triple radiator, you can fit a single rad at the back etc. There's plenty of room if you are creative and don't mind drilling your case a bit.
Again, it's what level of redundancy you want. Personally, I have never had a fan fail in my life, so I probably wouldn't want a whacking great unit designed to deal with that eventuality. Personally, I'd save money by attaching one or two of those fans to the CPU fan header, and enable the cpu fan fail warning in the bios. Problem solved, no?
Ok, firstly if you have to drain your WC to change your hdd, that's just bad planning. Hot-swap drive bays etc are your friend, and if your radiators are blocking the drive bays, I'd hate to see your airflow plans.
Secondly, leaks are fatal whether the radiators are inside or outside the case. Usually, the parts that fail are the waterblocks, and these are always going to be inside. Again, watercooling is past the point where it can explode if you look at it funny, most watercooling systems are actually pretty resilient.
It not making sense is your personal opinion rather than actual fact. In truth, most people do internal watercooling and are happy with it - it's more self-contained, more durable and looks more impressive.
The first statement is opinion, and remember that this article is a blog post - it's opinion rather than fact. Much like your post tbh.
Anyway, if you like using cases designed to allow 360 rads, that's your opinion. Personally, I like aftermarket modding, such as the Vadim Xiphias - dual rad in the roof, two quads in the bottom, looks perfect.
Here's a video of it, I can't find pictures.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGpLzOjNAYw
That is a triple rad in there, he has just used 2x120mm fans with it. I have had the Lian Li TYR PC-X2000, and at the price point this case is at, the last thing I would have wanted to do would be to start chopping it up. Would you buy a ferrari and then proceed to cut your own bloody air intakes in it?
I also don't like the attitudes shown here about modding cases. There IS NO right or wrong way, and that's the point of modding. It's to suit individual taste, and the know it all, fashionistas detract from the hobby, and more people would probably consider it as a hobby if there weren't so many people who claimed they knew the right way to do stuff:( It doesn't matter whether you, I or anyone else like or dislike someone's own mods, it's whether they are happy with their results.
No, merely because Ferrari's are perfection even without modding them in any way, and if you slip up, you're not damaging a $500 computer case, you're damaging a $200k Ferrari. Sorry, there's no real comparison. A better suggestion might be overclocking an extreme edition cpu? There's the potential to completely **** it up, but if you're careful and know what you're doing, then you've also got the chance to make a great case even better.
True, and I agree that there are some truly awesome mods I don't like at all. On the other hand, I think this quotation is very apt (I can't remember who said it): "There is no single right way to do something, but there are plenty of wrong ways".
Well, an external radiator isn't necessarily the wrong way.
I think most of us agree that what makes a WC system good or bad isn't where the components are located, it is how much thought was put into the design. I'd rather see an external watercooling system that was designed to be aesthetically pleasing, minimizing noise, and be able to effectively cool all of the components than an internal watercooling system that is loud, unreliable, assembled in zip ties - looking like it was added in as an afterthought.
Different strokes for different folks. Depends a lot on where you use your computer.
For instance, mine is in a basement right now. If I got watercooling, I would probably get a 120v pump (kicking it oldschool) with a lot of capacity, then run tubing vertically about four feet, punch a hole in it, and mount a big ol' car heater core with a 120v fan or two outside, because noise isn't an issue.
However, I'm moving into an apartment within the next month. In that case, I'd be far more apt to go for a small internal WC setup, because of limited space outside of the case and the ability to move the rig when needed.
Both types have their benefits. Some of the other old timers may remember a popular project log (can't remember if it was on bit-tech or not) 7-8 years ago that involved a guy getting a huge metal tank and burying it in his backyard, and watercooling his PC from it. I believe there's some temperature, I think it is around 55F in this area, where once you go below a certain point in the ground (a couple feet), the ground is that temperature year-round. With thermal intertia, and the sheer volume and surface area of this giant metal tank, it kept the water at the underground temperature no matter how hot his PC ran.
Stuff like that is innovative, stuff like that is cool. I've seen some other pretty sick mods using external radiators. I've also seen some other sick mods using internal radiators, especially those guys who cram them into SFF cases. But is one innately better than the other? Of course not. Generally, the guy who is more skilled at working with cases, and who put the most effort into design and construction, is the one who has the nicer mod.
Being someone who looks after my money, and my investments, I'm not so flippant over £300. If I had paid that much for a case (I got mine as a review sample), I wouldn't think of cutting the case up. It's nothing to do with performance at all. If the case doesn't perform well on air, at £300, then I don't want to know. I would much rather spend less, where it is easier to install wc. A lot of my cases get sold on after I have bought them, purely as I get bored with them after a while, or my missus starts giving me grief over the clutter, so chopping such an expensive case makes it an even more niche product than it was already, thus much harder to sell on. So the comparison is valid.
Regards modding, the hobby is all about expression and personal tastes, so as far as I am concerned there is no right or wrong. Obviously, there are technical aspects to modding, but the aesthetics of a mod is down to the individual alone. Whether a rad is fitted internally or externally is personal choice, and who is anyone to criticise that choice?
What if someone wants to use those two or more grommets for connection of flow-meter to be visible outside a case etc.
I agree it is not a relevant for your job and shouldn't be counted because almost every case has it today so why bother?
by
I am one of those rather bizzarre individuals who did acquire a Zalman Reserator 1 V2 a few years ago (albeit for the princely sum of £15, coolant included!), which is currently plumbed into my heavily overclocked GTX280 via an EK block - the card has never exceeded 55 degrees under load, where it was nudging 100 with its stock cooler. It's also completely silent.
I do own a Dremel, however Antec saved me the hassle of drilling the holes by incorporating a pair of grommets into the P182.
I accept that most hardcore users will probably never find much of a reason to use them but they might have a purpose, even if it is for the more "eccentric" modder!
I know the various Reserators were critically panned, and accept that at retail prices they were dreadful value for money, but does anyone know how well they actually sold?
Bottom line on the grommets is Murphys Law.
If your case doesn't have them, chances are you have an external wc system and hopefully a
If your case does have them you will either ignore them or find some other ingenious use for them.
For the cost of including them in manufacture Vs the hassle of adding them if you need them, I'd say in general they are a good feature and worth review "points".
I think the whole internal vs external argument is like coke vs pepsi.
I like my case to be nice and clean and open, but my rig in general I like to be big and imposing.
An x2000 and a v1 Reserator achieves that aim nicely...
The Reserator was never meant to be a powerful cooler, it's designed to be quiet and does that perfectly. I upgraded the pump and added a 360 rad and now it IS a powerful cooler, and quiet, and redundant.;)
Love the Vadim Xiphias Bakes, I agree, filling a case with tech and making it look good is art. Thats why we come to BT.
Never had a leak *touch wood* but maybe working with power for many years has made me a little paranoid.
I bought a Thermaltake Tribe many years ago,cheap, essentially just for the mesh cage to mount a rad in.
And as soon as I saw the "quality" of the wc parts I tossed them all. Still using the cage with a 360 rad in it.
As for the x2000 a rad will fit inside pretty easy, clearance on GPUs is a bit tight, and you need a nice pliable 24pin atx.
But in my case I have 3 par38 size RGB LEDs mounted in that space.
They take up most of the area and block the fans by about 1/3, but it's well worth it.
When it was new I wouldn't dare cut it, but now, 2 years on.
I'm thinking of moving the psu to the bottom and the hdds to the top, adding a 4th 140mm fan at the front and an internal 480rad.
The best part of this case is the hdd racks, the worst is the dual 80mm fans at the bottom rear, should have been a 140.
I love my Reserator Shirty. I knew if I waited they would make a black one, but i couldn't and have the blue. I assume it must have sold well enough to make a v2. I don't think of it as a radiator, more of a res/pump. "Reserpump"? "Pumpvoir"? :?
It's just a great big RL e-peen!! :D
I wouldn't have bought one new, but the price I paid for mine would certainly not have bought much better in the way of cooling for a single component.
When I eventually retire it from the main PC I'll stick it next to the telly cooling the HTPC and it can be an interesting conversation piece.
That will require me to break out the Dremel because AFAIK the Fusion doesn't have grommets!
I have used them for cable routing, on things like the fan speed adjuster of an old Zalman flower however.
as i see it, these grommets are almost entirely useless for their initial purpose, but theres plenty of possibilities otherwise.
External Radiator/Pump/Reservoir/Bleed Valve = Plug and play upgrades.
Build a fully integrated water-cooled rig is not water-cooling, it's Lego. With pretty pictures.
I have no lack of understanding but I'm pretty sure you do. If you did understand you would explain what was wrong with what I said. The fact that haven't suggests you can't, instead you've trying using insults and big words - which is generally the fall back of those who don't really know what they are trying to talk about.
If you did you would be able to tell me what was wrong with my statement. You can't - a decent 120mm fan non-water-cooled heat-sink has similar ability to dissipate heat to a 120mm fan water-cooled radiator. Check the reviews ... there are thousands.
Water cooling is only superior because it's near impossible to stick anything larger then a single 120mm fan heat-sink directly on the cpu. With water cooling the water MOVES that heat in the water to a location where you can place a larger multiple 120mm fan radiator which can obviously dissipate more heat.
You might only have the same surface area in your heat exchanger (the radiator), but you have 0.5kg of water (which requires ~3000 times as much energy to increase its temperature as air does per unit mass).
Your PC doesn't dump heat at a constant rate, so the water acts as a buffer to prevent sudden increases in temperature, instead allowing the energy to be transferred into the surroundings at a slower rate.
We can argue about this all day if you want, after all, my time is worthless.
It could give answer how much review point it worth ...
The reason why water cooling temperatures are lower is because the heat generated by the cpu is first heating up the water coolant.
Water has a very high SHC, it means that if you put X joules into water and oil, the water temperature would have a smaller change. This is advantageous because it means that you can transport more heat energy at a lower temperature. Even if the same amount of heat is being removed at the radiator, the temperatures will be lower because the water is cooler throughout the loop.
Furthermore, the heat is moving at the speeds the water's being pushed through the loop, rather than the speeds the heatpipes or copper can manage. This is advantageous also, because it means that each fin in the water cooler has the same cooling potential, less of them go to waste, whilst with a heatsink the top fins are cooler than the bottom ones due to the limitations of heatpipes, which means that some of the top fins are completely useless.
Even if you had unlimited space, and stuck a 1M tall hsf on the top of a cpu (i guess you'd be attaching the cpu to the HSF xD), the cpu would still be cooled worse than a much smaller water cooling rig - purely because the watercooling setup can remove heat faster into the environment whilst you'd have to rely on heat conduction with the hsf - I'd imagine that the top 85CM of the cooler would be at roughly room temperature.
Low temperatures are not entirely dependent on how much heat you can possibly remove, they're much more to do with how fast you can get the heat away from the CPU - that's why massive coolers don't always perform better than coolers with much less surface area. If you want a perfect example, it's why the Thermalright Ultra-120 performs much worse than the Ultra-120 Extreme - whilst they have the same cooling capacity and design the extra heatpipes of the TRUE mean that it cools much better.
in the end with air or water cooling you still have to put the heat into the air (unless you have some more exotic setup ofc) but a radiator generally has more surface area and being able to pump water around it evenly means you dont get hotspots and the like
DbD is pretty much correct
Well, had you read the rest of my post you'd realise that I know this. Nevertheless, DbD seemed to assume that the only reason why air coolers are not good is because of size restrictions - this is not the case at all.
In any case, my point still stands, it's why using a really good coolant can change the temperatures dramatically.
So true! That is actually one of the first things I did when I had unpacked my CM 690 II Advanced :D
I don't actually use them for anything though. But I am quite happy for them to be there in case I ever do want to use them.
Except for those people on this forum who really love their computers....
You knew the conversation was going to go in this direction.
Nasty!
Although?..........................................
yeah you forgot to put the quotes around "finger"
i hope for your sake they had the rubber "protection" you don't want a bunch of little shuttle cases running around the place!!
If your.... "finger" fits through a watercooling grommet then i feel sorry for you.
but sounds like crazyceo's does
im sure it took plenty of arctic silver though......
the hard part *boom tish* would be getting it out!
or more precisely, walking into A&E and the nurse saying..
"Is that a Lian-Li in your pocket or are you just glad to see me?"
thats what i use them for mostly