Does anyone really need a 1Kw PSU?
Posted on 7th May 2010 at 09:44 by Richard Swinburne with 114 comments
Having dropped into Antec recently (not literally, I used the lift), I noticed the company was preparing a thought-provoking demo PC - it was to show that even its TruePower 550W 80Plus Bronze rated PSU can power a system that includes a GeForce GTX 480 and Intel Core i7-980X CPU!
At idle the system used a not inconsiderate 172W of power, but under load that raised to 507W - still within the power rating of the PSU, although pushing it to 92 per cent use.
Click to Enlarge
Still, after playing with the system all day the Antec team claimed the setup was completely stable and even adding several hard drives and a few fans to this setup would still leave it under the full load mark, so at least you'd be getting your monies worth!
Obviously this leaves SLI out of the question, but after dropping nearly a ton on graphics cards you'd expect to be buying a beefier power supply anyway. Running the PSU "hot" when loaded will inevitably spin up the fan, but knowing the GTX 480s are modelled on aircraft engines (hot thrust out the back included), we couldn't hear the Antec running anyway.
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If you look carefully, you'll even see the Antec PSU can use the 4-pin and 8-pin CPU 12V power connectors on the Asus Rampage III Formula X58 motherboard underneath.
Power supplies are designed to be used in the 50-75 per cent load range for maximum efficiency, so while Antec's example just an extreme case - does it make a worthwhile point against the kilowatt bad-boys out there?
Is getting value for money and sweating PSUs to within an inch of their wattage ratting the future of PC design? Or do we need a better way to gauge component power use before purchase? Let us know your thoughts in the forums.
The power use figure is the upper right hand number. Click to Enlarge
At idle the system used a not inconsiderate 172W of power, but under load that raised to 507W - still within the power rating of the PSU, although pushing it to 92 per cent use.
Click to Enlarge
Still, after playing with the system all day the Antec team claimed the setup was completely stable and even adding several hard drives and a few fans to this setup would still leave it under the full load mark, so at least you'd be getting your monies worth!
Obviously this leaves SLI out of the question, but after dropping nearly a ton on graphics cards you'd expect to be buying a beefier power supply anyway. Running the PSU "hot" when loaded will inevitably spin up the fan, but knowing the GTX 480s are modelled on aircraft engines (hot thrust out the back included), we couldn't hear the Antec running anyway.
Click to Enlarge
If you look carefully, you'll even see the Antec PSU can use the 4-pin and 8-pin CPU 12V power connectors on the Asus Rampage III Formula X58 motherboard underneath.
Power supplies are designed to be used in the 50-75 per cent load range for maximum efficiency, so while Antec's example just an extreme case - does it make a worthwhile point against the kilowatt bad-boys out there?
Is getting value for money and sweating PSUs to within an inch of their wattage ratting the future of PC design? Or do we need a better way to gauge component power use before purchase? Let us know your thoughts in the forums.
The power use figure is the upper right hand number. Click to Enlarge
114 Comments
Discuss in the forums ReplyThe Antec PSU calculator (on their site) would also support this view, because they say that due to capacitor aging, the PSU loses its maximum capacity over time.
And it has nothing at all to do with wanting to sell more expensive, higher rated PSUs? ;)
It would help if you read the blog post.
You should read it too, and MORE articles - running a PSU at near full load isn't very healthy, and stressing it so much may lead to early failure...
But would you really need a 1kW PSU? :|
404
A decent 1kW unit is recommended minimum for GTX480SLi
Pretty much no-one needs a 1kw PSU.
I've got a Corsair 750w in my rig - works perfectly. Mine only draws about 400w at max load :)
still enough power but its already on 90% side..
Great PSU tho don't get me wrong but I'd still rather have that overhead and not 300W+ overhead but 600W is more than enough.
But a ton is £100?
Really though you never need more than about 550-750W unless you're running SLi with those egg friers nVidia released recently.
800w is perfectly more than enough for dual card configuration except for Fermi.
it's all about planning ahead, if you don't plan, then buy a 1kW supply and watch it go to waste with really bad efficiency due to not at optimum 50% load.
I do think people go way ottt though, talking of having a big psu so they can upgrade in the future, when in all likelihood that isn't going to happen, and really they just want to buy 'the best' hardware for bragging rights.
My gaming pc has dual gtx 260s, and I've been running it with a 620w PSU for over a year so far, so I'm certainly of the mind that you don't need a massive power supply. I have friends with single graphics cards with bigger PSUs than me, and I really don't understand their logic.
Fixed, sorry about that!
I'd guess 600-650 watts would do for that system (to get down from 90+% load to 80 ish)
For the system in this article I would have aimed for a PSU around 750w and a high efficiency branded model.
I have used cheap no-name brands before when things were tight and though some held their own, inevitably when things got hot and they had been in constant use for a couple of years they began to fail and cause system instability.
...quad SLI...I rest my case:D
Now there is no way I will risk my rig again. Over power cheesecake
Mostly because it was cheap (sales), and I won't need to upgrade my PSU for a long time, freeing up cash for other more important hardware. ;D
I'm running HD4890 and overclocked Q9450 with a couple of hard drive from a 400 W power supply (passively cooled, mind you) and it's just fine. I think people still get confused by the power consumption measured from the wall, especially when those include the whole setup and they've been reading a graphic card review. Yes, it's always clearly stated, but I just think nothing else explains why just about every newer geek over-estimates the power consumptions.
you need a 3kw psu for 50% is ideal
LOL LOL LOL
your a noob cyberpower
as a 3kw psu doesnt even exist.
1 in a billion people probably have quad sli 480 gtx
now back to real world
were the avr build is still in the £400-600 bracket
now tell me you need your 1kw psu.
i run my current pc on a 750 seasonic psu
i980 (4ghz water cooled overclock) + 5870 1 ssd 2 * 1tb drives few case fans
at the wall it uses 500 watts
if i added in a 2nd 5870 i could still run it of the same psu
system is nearly silent in use
i5 750 at 4.5ghz
4 sticks DDR3 2000
24 phase high end mobo
GTX480 (which i'll be over volting and overclocking - so thats not included)
4 7200rpm drives
11 x 120mm fans, 1 x 250mm in my case atm
fan controller 30w per channel and a 18w DDC2 pump
right now i'm running a 650w corsair with a GTX260... so lets see when i get my gtx480 what happens...
I'm probably gonna need a 850w to be safe...
Your either incredibly stupid or a really not that amusing "funny guy", which in itself makes you a fool.
Main question - why - not 2 psu's
Exactly 2, out of 57 had their pc set up in an area with adequate flow of air.
Nothing I say will change anyone's mind, if you want to buy a PSU every year or two for your new PC, go for it. I have a 1250 that is in its 2nd computer.
The online calculators for wattage that I have seen put me above the anemic PSU BT constantly recommends.
I do find it interesting that here we have someone saying that running at 50%-75% is best, which would make all your recommendations for PSUs void.
I simply want my Gaming experience to be optimum, my PSU is pretty much the highest watt PSU one can buy (that is real high quality).
I build my computers like I play my Games, aim to be the best and fix it if I am not.
I sincerely hope that your PSU does not burn out when you are running a 650 watt PSU with high end procs and gpus. I have seen PSUs fail it is not pretty. If you insist on running a PSU at close to 100% please spend the money on a fire extinguisher, oh wait, that money could have be rolled into a better PSU.
Either way, no ZOMGS from me, you can make your own choices, and live (hopefully) with the consequences.
Yours in Quantum Singularity Powered Plasma,
Star*Dagger
P.S. FFS stop using XP, lol
I also have plans to build a nice little 48 core system, which should stress it a little more ;-)
thats where your making a mistake just like any other average joe who thinks a bigger number is better - its not about how many watts a PSU can kick out - its about the quality of components that go into making it. my corsair 750HX costs over twice as much as yours because bigger doesnt always = better. you may think your getting a great kick ass deal but in reality that cheap PSU could go boom well below its stated spec. & thats not something that happends once in a bluemoon, there are manufacturers there some big ones & small ones that deliberately lable a PSU 850w when really it can only do 700 at the most, stuff like this happends a lot with cheaper brands.
there are loads of guides on the net that tell you which manufacturer you can trust & which one to stay away from. I know some PSUs can be very very expensive but think of it as insurance - because if a bad PSU cant keep voltage regulated it could well 'blow up' & cause an outage that will spike & in most cases, kill your hardware. & thats something you dont want to happen. so i know it puts a dent in your wallet but a decent PSU especially a bronze/silver/gold rated one will save for a fair few quid on bills & also hassle from having to RMA dead hardware if its still under warranty.
I must insist that you do read some of the guides because i cant stress how important it is if your choosing to build a really expensive machine.
I'm planning on running a 920 d0 and 2x 5850s on a 600W Enermax Modu 87+ Gold rated supply, as that's around 550W OC'ed, and I've seen upper wattage testing showing it's actual limit is around the 670W mark.
For that reason I bought an OCZZ1000m to run at 50% (or close) load and 90.93% efficiency on my pc that can pull 500-550W most of the time.
I prefer the car analogy as well and like to think of my psu cruising along all day not chucking out loads of heat, compared to a smaller psu running at 90%+ load all day.
what PC have you got? even 3x gtx480 will struggle to pull 500w at idle, where idle is most PC's will spend most of its time.
Works for my rig, plus it can support another HD4850 if I so desire.
Seriously, I replied here just for you so I hope you feel special. Cyberpower was implying that for an average system ideally 50% load is what you should go for, obviously a Quad-SLI GTX 480 System is not an Ideal Average system and therefore the requirements are not equal to an Average Gamer PC I'm taking an educated guess that he posted the video to answer the "Does anyone need a 1000w+ Power Supply".
For gosh darn diddly (Watching the Simpsons :P) at least put some form of effort into making your Sentence? Paragraph? somewhat understandable. I stopped reading your post shortly after the 3k PSU comment as it was harming my eyes by reading it.
PS: I do however disagree with what Cyberpower said, 65% is a decent number with most of my builds being around 75%, my typical Power Supply age is around 3 - 5 years after which it's replaced with a more efficient / quieter model or it blows up because it's made by Rosewill.
Self built. I7 860 @ 3.8Ghz, 6GB ram, HAF 932 case, 2 hdds, 3 8800Gt gpus (was 4 but one died) running folding 24/7 so is never idling.
You mean 5 GHz.
You need to chill out, think about what you're saying and visit the grammar and spelling thread in general whilst you're at it.
Sorry. Forgot that most fools on the internet don't understand the subtleties of sarcasm. I apologize for overlooking your intellect.
At the end of the day, provided the PSU is a high quality model, who cares if someone has a PSU that could power a system three times over? I agree with Borandi; A PSU that isn't run flat out will survive much longer - it's just basic engineering logic.
Not often I agree with PeteJ*, but he's right... let's tone down the rage a bit plz
yeah it goes way back to the g80.. people were buying into nvidia's minimum power specs until we saw a few guru's running sli and even tri sli with a 600w antec power supply.. they didn't pull what nvidia says but it sold alot of higher end psu's :D
the backlash to all that can still be felt today.. but I agree with you- just run over what you need and be done with it.. if you cut it too close and you have to upgrade later on- who's the real bozo :D
*nvidia seem to want run counter to the laws of evolution, but that's their bed and they're welcome to lay in it!
Some are noisy are low RPM also, as the fan is noisy. Its not just the RPM but the design of the fan. Had an Akasa 400w once, that at idle sounded like someone blowing across the top of an empty milk bottle.
generally speaking - ULTRA powersupplies should be avoided at all costs especially if you seeking to run a very high end/wattage system. they are really not that great & most of the people i know from the US dont use them either. ROSEWILL are sorta in the same boat but i hear less complaints about them compared to ULTRA.
Well lets see, Then to run 3 GTX295 video cards(Not any ATi cards, Not yet at least or any 470 or 480 cards, their worse than ATi 5800 series cards for Double Precision support) what do You suggest? Oh and It better have a power switch on the back or It's a no go here, Why? Overclocking an Asus motherboard, As It helps after a failed over clock to turn the power supply off and then on again, As I don't like pulling on a power cord any. Mind You the psu in the case now is an Enermax 1050w unit which is good enough for only two graphics cards or three If a 2nd psu for the motherboard and other components is used, Considering I want to water cool the P7P55D Pro motherboard(i5 750 cpu) which is in a HAF-932 case, So what's Your suggestion?
I never said It was about the wattage, It has 117A on a single 12v rail, Which is good enough for 3 GTX295 cards with enough left over for the rest of the PC, So far there has only been one review of the 1600w X4 psu and It's Here(Which looks like a short review or a Preview maybe), If Bit-tech ever makes a review of the 1600w X4, I'll read It, Provided bit-tech ever does a review of this particular X4 that is.
Does it Hover? :D
Ah! so you're it, you're the guy they designed these monsters for.
And I never said my comment was in reference to yours. The someone else in this case was Lockon Stratos
Running an overclocked E6600, 4gb RAM, 2x320gb, 2x500gb, 1x74gb raptor, 1x128gb SSD, 3 120mm fans, a GTX275 and a 7600GS all mashed into a Gigabyte GA-965P-DQ6 which in itself is probably pretty hungry.
All that gets fed by an Enermax 485w PSU. Doesn't miss a beat (except when I do something dumb) and it's been running in this configuration, give or take a couple of bits, for a couple of years now.
4x 500gb HD's
1x DVDw
Athlon 4800 X2 s939
128x256 LCD screen
6x Bulkin button lights
1x Custom circuit for lights
6x Fans
4x CCFL lights
1x 8800GT
Asus m2n mobo
power for WC Pump
fan controller
255W max powerdrain on the socket on full load (playing bench, running hd copy, all lights on)
Ok, I didn't know, You're forgiven. :D
Futhermore it is always possible you bought by accidence a poor produkt, even today that happens, with all kind of products.
A good 500watt PSU form a good manufacturer is more then capable to run your components. You sound like someone who's care engine broke, for all the reasons but not it's horsepower and say: well, it must be too light, i need a bigger engine....lol
50% load is most optimal, but more is hardly a problem. most good PSU's deliver up to about 80 a 90% without much hassle.
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1044-page4.html
Up to 400watt is no problem whatsoever for this PSU. That's about 440watt "from the wall", people. So a GTX470 will work flawless with it and even a GTX480 can do.
And if you take a look at this:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1044-page5.html
You will see that a 650watt rated PSU can manage 500watt without any problem; that's 550watt "from the wall"; minimum. 600 from the wall is no issue either.
This 850watt PSU from Seasonic can take up and over 700watt "from the wall" without any issue:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article898-page4.html
650watt netto
51c degrees celsius
84,7% efficiency
42Dba
You need extra wattage for efficiency, upgrades, heat, the effects of aging, falsified wattage ratings.
Also, just because you have enough watts, doesn't mean you have enough watts where you need them. You may simply not have enough wattage on the 12v rail because many manufacturers place too much of the wattage on the wrong rails. Then there is/was the whole multiple rail phenomenon where my 550 watt quad rail psu was unable to power my Radeon 1900AIW.
Is my Pc P&C 750 watt overkill? Maybe, but I know it will be stable, run cool and last a long time.
Andy
Probably not too many I'd think.
Reasonable wattage calculator
http://www.antec.outervision.com/
The alpha and omega of PSU reviews
http://www.jonnyguru.com/
"Why 99% of PSU reviews are WRONG"
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/410/5
Enjoy!
S*D
And since he was studying to become a bean-counter, he bought ANOTHER 15 PSU afterwards. (they do come with a 2 year warranty you know)
Other than that, fans that start to rattle after some years. And my computers run for about 8 years before discarding them.
(first, then secondary, then parents) :D
I do aim at about 80% max load though...
I'm running an overclocked quad core CPU, GTX 275, 2 HDDs, an optical drive, sound card, satellite TV tuner card, and a fan controller with 4 120mm fans. I'd consider that about average, perhaps slightly above average, in terms of power draw, and according to that calculator it only uses 481W (although it doesn't seem to be very accurate - do IDE hard drives really use 9W more than SATA hard drives?).
So I'm pretty confident in the fact I'm not running at 98% load and that my HX650 isn't going to explode any time soon. So stop your PSU scaremongering, all it does is help the manufacturers of low quality, high wattage PSUs, and that's really not something we need.
i think the typical load power draw is around 60% of what it calculated, its value is to give you a recommendation on what wattage supply you should get, don't think it tells you the load wattages.
Gets to 312W in my system. (sig) Which has a 350W PSU.
Then again the highest i've ever measured at the wall socket was <300W (280ish)
Not bad though.
Also, for a system not unlike the "Gaming Workhorse"
i7 860 + HD5870 = 373W
Or one notch up:
i7 930 + HD5870 = 401W
So, a 500W PSU should suffice easily
And according to Antec, my maximum draw is roughly 300W. 50% indeed! :D
So yes I would say so. He calculated all the peak power requirements and even the 1250 didn't give a comfortable margin. Then when you think about the fact that PSU deteriorate by an average of 10% a year even when not driven at constantly high performance in overheated environments, I would say yes. Certainly you do. I use 100 watts myself for dual 5870s mainly to leave a little bit of overhead and avoid issues. It's a simple enough question to answer for yourself if you just look up the peak power requirements and do the math.
I've had one fail myself (and seen more than a few others)...
It was sending 12volts down the 5volt rail in spikes.
It killed 2 cd-roms, damaged the mobo, ram and both hard drives I had, basically everything but the processor. Most was still under warranty, the rest I had connections to get replaced free.
I also had one give up under the strain of overclocking an Intel 805.
The most recent I saw was a customers Lenovo, it destroyed all but the processor and dvd-rom, the latter of which will probably be dead soon enough.
I just cant see the need to risk my rig or have to screw around with buying a new PSU every 18 months.
Do what you like, I've been building machines for over 15 years and haven't had 1/10th the problems other builders have.
Enjoy the hobby (with high quality parts),
Star*Dagger
Same here, Except It's been 18 years for Me. :D
There these wonderful things called adapter cables.
Excluding the bold part where you seem to take me for an idiot, I agree with you that quality should always come before power but I would still rather play safe and getting both. I will be testing a GTX260 SLI this weekend and I know I wouldn't have been able to do so with my old PSU (it's actually why I didn't try before). This is why I am glad I got an overkill one
In the PSU market you can get both, like an Enermax Galaxy 1250, which has high quality components and gives you 1250 watts.
Over estimates my power consumption by nearly 70%. The only honest way to know your power consumption is to plug your computer in to a power monitor and use it how you normally do. Before wasting money on a 1kw psu buy a £10 monitor from maplin and see how it really pans out.
Mine for my low end system (Athlon II) is only about 120w in normal use.
Seriously though, sucking up all my molex connectors just because I have an old power supply doesn't sound too pleasing, not from a cable management, asthetic, or feasibility perspective. While I'm thinking about it, I've never seen a SATA to 6 or 8 pin 12V adapter or anything of the "SATA to" sort. Starting to seem like they'd be more useful as newer power supplies seem to be cutting down the number of 4 pin molex in favor of SATA.
what is your full system spec?
that 1050 should be plenty unless you have 20 hard drives linked up too. otherwise step up to the 1250w version if you feel its not enough, you can obviously afford it.
No It's not the full specs, But this below is, Of course I have car repairs and a down payment on a house to save for all on $845 a month(SSI/SSP income as I'm a disabled person):
Note: I'm not a gamer, I crunch numbers for a Boinc project known as Seti@Home.
------
well, I think there was an artical somwhere on the site that allowed you to link 2 PSUs togther that power up & shutdown at the same time. keep the enermax. for the graphics. & upgrade the 450VX to something a little more powerfull if you see fit. because really theres no easy way out unless you do perchase the 1600watt X4 monster.
& i would be very careful if you do decide to buy the X4 because not many peoples rigs use over 1000watts of power. so it could well be a case of false advertising, the label says 1600w but it will only do 1300w before dissapearing in a cloud of smoke.
Im just trying to suggest the best method to look after your hardware because it is expensive, & i know how it feels when a PSU dies & takes stuff with it.
I do play some Civ 4 from time to time(Otherwise I don't feel like It), Browse the net, do email, sometimes some editing of pictures and listen to My music on My PC, In addition to the number crunching of course. Yeah running two psus at the same time one for the video cards(Enermax) and the other(Corsair) for the rest of the stuff is only cause the Corsair has only one 12v rail and not multiple ones like on the Enermax, There is a cable to allow one to hook two psus together as the green wire and a black wire by a small adapter cable is connected to the 2nd psu(Enermax) while everything else is powered by Corsair psu, You press the power button for the Corsair to on and the Enermax is also powered on at the same time too. Money is limited, Besides I do have a couple other PCs, One is in case the lamp in the TV burns out as It's an HP Media center with an 850w Corsair psu and needs to be replaced(about a $91 part) and then there's the one I'm typing which is a QX6700 B1(ES, circa October 2006!) cpu with a 900w OCZ psu @ 3.42GHz, the ram there is at 427MHz/533MHz(effectively 854/1066MHz or 4:5) And It's water cooled w/a Corsair H50 and a pair of Delta fans(129cfm/113/cfm 120x38mm & 120x25mm). Oh and I have the intake for the H50 filtered as It's a Dusty area here.
No. I was defending myself.
Oh and It's not a waste, I don't know If You know this or not, But Boinc is able to use some gpus to crunch with as well as cpus, Unlike Folding Boinc will launch as many apps as the client has hardware for, currently It's limited to Nvidia gpus, ATi is able to do useful work, But not on all projects as the projects all have their limits in terms of talent, equipment and funding. In any case It's time for Me to get some shut eye as I'm very sleepy now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7epu4oEQVR4
This site recommended a 1073w and minimum 1021w and I im using 850w thats got to be wrong!! :S
Your post: Today, 09:45
Seriously?