What will you put up with for a good storyline?
Posted on 28th Jan 2010 at 11:57 by Mark Mackay with 33 comments
After finishing my new gaming rig recently, I installed a few games that I’ve been meaning to get through. Mass Effect and Fallout 3 were amongst those titles. I’d dabbled in both before but found that the slow pace and masses of dialogue weren't really what I was looking for at that time. This is a pair of games that focus heavily on storyline. However, I always had the nagging feeling that I was missing out on some great games and so, with my new rig purring away, wanted to give them another shot.
I started with Fallout 3. The prologue section in Vault 101 was pretty slow going, but I knew the story was being set so I sat patiently through it, relishing the prospect of getting stuck into the post-apocalyptic exploration outside. When I eventually got outside, I was awestruck by how good the game looked. I’ve benchmarked a section of the game many times before but with all the settings maxed out, 8x AA,15x AF, at 1,920 x 1,200 and with the time to really absorb it all, the game looked amazing.
Welcome to VATS - No skills required
After exploring some, I eventually encountered my first combat situation and was introduced to VATS. Quite frankly, I found the idea of clicking where I wanted my bullets to land and then having the shots executed for me a ridiculous one. So I opted for regular FPS-style combat. However, the mouse pointer feels laggy and delayed. I tried with various mice with a myriad of settings, but using the crosshair just felt sloppy. Coupled with the low skill points in all areas as a new character and the combat in Fallout 3 was terrible. The character development was deep and I’m assured that the storyline is awesome, but with combat soggier than a Weetabix that’s been left in warm milk for a week, I just couldn’t stomach it.
The combat in Mass Effect didn't push my buttons
The same was true of Mass Effect. I found the combat severely tiresome, with the team AI making for another sloppy combat system. I’ve always been into RPGs as my main game choice but I guess as the years have gone by and multiplayer gaming takes up increasing portions of my time - that’s changed. I’m going to give Mass Effect another shot as Mass Effect 2 looks amazing and I don’t want to miss out on what could be one of the greatest gaming trilogies of all time. But by gum, I hope things pick up as I get into it.
But this all got me wondering. What’s more important to you? Did you also find Mass Effect and Fallout 3 tiresome and feel like gameplay was thrown in as an afterthought to the storyline? Are you prepared to stomach a portion of bad gameplay if it means that you can get involved in a well-written, interactive book with some gorgeous visuals or would you can the game and fire up something else that delivered a more immediately gratifying gameplay experience?
I started with Fallout 3. The prologue section in Vault 101 was pretty slow going, but I knew the story was being set so I sat patiently through it, relishing the prospect of getting stuck into the post-apocalyptic exploration outside. When I eventually got outside, I was awestruck by how good the game looked. I’ve benchmarked a section of the game many times before but with all the settings maxed out, 8x AA,15x AF, at 1,920 x 1,200 and with the time to really absorb it all, the game looked amazing.
Welcome to VATS - No skills required
After exploring some, I eventually encountered my first combat situation and was introduced to VATS. Quite frankly, I found the idea of clicking where I wanted my bullets to land and then having the shots executed for me a ridiculous one. So I opted for regular FPS-style combat. However, the mouse pointer feels laggy and delayed. I tried with various mice with a myriad of settings, but using the crosshair just felt sloppy. Coupled with the low skill points in all areas as a new character and the combat in Fallout 3 was terrible. The character development was deep and I’m assured that the storyline is awesome, but with combat soggier than a Weetabix that’s been left in warm milk for a week, I just couldn’t stomach it.
The combat in Mass Effect didn't push my buttons
The same was true of Mass Effect. I found the combat severely tiresome, with the team AI making for another sloppy combat system. I’ve always been into RPGs as my main game choice but I guess as the years have gone by and multiplayer gaming takes up increasing portions of my time - that’s changed. I’m going to give Mass Effect another shot as Mass Effect 2 looks amazing and I don’t want to miss out on what could be one of the greatest gaming trilogies of all time. But by gum, I hope things pick up as I get into it.
But this all got me wondering. What’s more important to you? Did you also find Mass Effect and Fallout 3 tiresome and feel like gameplay was thrown in as an afterthought to the storyline? Are you prepared to stomach a portion of bad gameplay if it means that you can get involved in a well-written, interactive book with some gorgeous visuals or would you can the game and fire up something else that delivered a more immediately gratifying gameplay experience?
33 Comments
Discuss in the forums ReplyMark, as I said, if Fallout 3 isn't fitting then just go to STALKER instead.
So I decided to give it another go, and now I'm actually quite enjoying it! I do still think the combat is pants in KOTOR, but as you mentioned in your blog, I put up with it because I'm immersed in the world, storyline and with the characters.
I havn't tried Fallout 3 yet, but I know what you mean about Mass Effect. As Joe said though, you get used to it. I actually like to play Mass Effect on easy, so the combat is just a non-issue element of the game that crops up from time to time, and kind of acts as an interlude from all the dialogue.
It's probably blasphemous to say it, but I found both Mass Effect and Fallout 3 much less frustrating on the PS3 and Xbox 360, respectively, than on the PC. The control schemes for both just result in a hamstrung feeling on the PC; whereas on console they feel 'right' and as such you can enjoy the story more.
Thanks for the reply storm20200, glad it's not just me. It really does feel crappy compared with proper FPS shooters.
I would rather go for pure gameplay games (Armagetron) or games with heavy emphasis on story (most Final Fantasy) than a poor mishmash, but a balance can be achieved.
Haven't played FO3, but Mass Effect was decent.. Story was average, gameplay was average. It had shiny graphics, but wasn't as good as KOTOR.
KOTOR, Deus Ex, Diablo II are games that combine the two the best I think.
Mass Effect on the 360 I found really enjoyable (I mainly used the sniper rifle which (once leveled up) made the combat a lot easier) - I think it's more suited to a Joypad than Keyboard and mouse.
No vsync for me, Never turn it on unless there's an option for triple buffering, I find my screen doesn't tear with it off anyway so I don't care.
I always use vsync. I hate tearing almost as much as jaggies...
Obviously, there are limits; a ridiculously fun game that looks ****, I am unlikely to play. Basically, I shouldn't have to put up with anything excessive. Bad story? No difference, since I play for the gameplay. I could even put up with an exceptionally bad story. But sounds, graphics and content etc, should all be of a certain quality at least, otherwise it's a no-go.
turn it off and your mouse lag will be cured... but you will get tearing. so either get a 120hz monitor to kill it more of the time... or turn the settings up higher to get ur frame rate down below 60. or leave it on and keep the lag :/
I am dissapoint.
+1 You selfish nerd =P
I personally had no problem with VATS or the Mass Effect combat. Everyone operates under the logical fallacy that all things have an absolute quality, that if something is 'good', then everyone must like it.
Ask people about marmite, doctor who, or opera. If you like marmite, then you'll think marmite is awesome, if you don't like doctor who, you'll think doctor who is rubbish, and if you like opera, well, you're weird aren't you?
My point is: These things are a matter of personal preference. If you find yourself 'putting up' with something, what is actually happening is you forcing you to play a game you do not like, because you have the faulty logical belief that just because other people say something is good, that you should like it.
Don't feel bad if you don't like the gameplay features that other people do. I personally hate mmorpgs, but a hell of a lot of people like them. If I played an mmo, I would be 'putting up' with a lot of the aspects of the game, that wouldn't be a reflection of it's absolutely quality, a) because there is no such thing, and b) because it is my personal opinion.
Perfectly said. Rep.
Personally, Story > gameplay by a huge margin.
crappy gameplay but great story? - I will play it to the end even if i have to resort to easy mode and/or cheats to do so
Crappy story but good gameplay. - I might not bother finishing it, unless the gameplay is exceptional.
Results in me giving RPGs a huge leeway on gameplay, but games such as doom3 meaning i can't bring myself to finish them...
Are you honestly saying you would put yourself through all kinds of **** for a good story? And you play JRPGs?! That's a lot of **** to put up with for what usually amounts to a mediocre at best story.
Each to their own I guess.
As far as I'm concerned it was a paper-thin bland questline characteristic of Bethesda.
Like most elements of Fallout 3, it just felt like Oblivion with different art assets.
Mass Effect had a good story, good roleplaying elements and good presentation of the above and I played it to the end.
The combat was crappy, though, and puts me off actually revisiting the game.
So you could say I put up with it once, but the horrible gameplay was enough to kill the longevity or replayability of the game for me.
As said elsewhere on the forums, just go and play Planescape Torment or Deus Ex.
Then weep over the sorry state of modern gaming. :p
Oh, and Fallout 3 has a dogshit storyline. It's better than the average shooter's, sure, but the game is overall much too schizophrenic and the main story is far too short and repetitive, with far more emphasis on linear action than on proper freeform role-playing that made the first two Fallouts so excellent. Fallout 3 has its strengths, but they're in atmosphere, exploration, and the whole sandbox nature of the game; there's very little in the way of deep game systems or memorable characters, events, story twists, etc.
Mass Effect on the other hand has pretty poor combat, but it's offset by the excellent universe the game features, along with its characters and storyline. Probably the first BioWare game where character interactions don't feel forced and stilted, and in some ways it does a better job than Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age. Some moments in the game are just phenomenal too, including the entire endgame sequence, and make up a lot for some of the occasional slowness.
There will probably be Mass Effect 4 out by the time I get round to it
Fallout I do enjoy though each to their own though I guess.
...THEN they decided the gameplay had to be optimised for consoles.
You need VATS or autoaim when running about with no mouse.
I've found both games mediocre at best, and both very repetitive.
If you stick to the main storyline* ME is very, very short.
Fallout3 and Stalker both make you collect loot, return to a selling point, collect again, return, collect, return...
Xir
*and ME urges you to continue the main storyline (Hurry, he's getting away!) instead of wandering the universe.
Take Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time, for example. Wonderful story, beautiful characters. I love it. The combat is incredibly shoddy though, to be honest, and the final fights are...ugh. Just, ugh. That's OK though because the fighting is concentrated into short bits and the bulk of the action is the platforming, which is excellent. If the platforming had been bad and the combat good though, well the story would be much less of a concern.
I love story. I love good characters. My favourite games are the ones which have interesting plots, like Deus Ex and Thief. At the end of the day though a game has to have more than just story - because if ALL I cared about was the story then I'd just read a book instead. I don't because I want to interact with the story in a meaningful, intelligent and fun manner - which is something you can't do in a book.
Fallout 3 was a non-starter for me at first, I just couldn't handle myself once out of the vault. Aiming's fine for me though, sometimes use VATS to get a couple or so shots in while I think how best to dispatch the baddies.
Mass Effect just got very annyoing very quickly. I was enjoying it up to the point where you first land on a planet in the transport vehicle you control. I think it's a bug wherein you can't tell if you've fallen off the sometimes fairly narrow path you have to follow, the textures aren't 'complete' and then you start back at the beginning. I like to be given at least a fair chance. Because of that, I gave up on it after the umpteenth go.
PoP:SoT was incredible although I agree with Joe, sometimes the combat was completely against you. I remember a part where you dropped into a room and there were several guards to defeat. That took a lot of fancy footwork and new swear words.
DragonAge Origins - I'd prefer to play the game rather than watching a fairly poor graphics engine try and provide a cinematic experience. It's just so bloody boring! Give me a dragon to stick a fork into!
Basically, the going is tough in the early parts of the game. Remember you are just some youth who's lived in a vault all their life. Not some kind of special forces commando. It's better to avoid combat and conflict entirely against anything bigger than a wild dog until you've levelled up enough!
My first attempt at playing it was infuriating. My graphics card wasn't up to the job meaning the draw distance had to be brought right down. I'd find bullets flying past my ears out of the nothingness in the distance only to find i'd come with in range of a couple of supermutants - by that time it was too late!
I will allways pick gameplay over story, and if the aim/engine is fundamentaly flawed to the point of no return, like Bioshock, I will pass out on it. I still played Fallout 3, allbeit did not like free-aim at all, and led me to not finish up the game even if I was at the end of the story. I passed on Mass Effect as it looked too flat and uninspired, not my kind of artstyle, and the planet-explorations looked sucky.
Hopes up for Metro 2033 to get som rpg-elements and perfect freeaim of course, Stalker: Call of Pripyat has also gotten good critics and have been said to fix up inventory and gui a lot.
At first, FO3 did feel rather clunky and sluggish - I expected to be able to approach combat in the same manner as you do with an FPS, which is not the way the game was built. Once you get used to the combat mechanics and using VATS, I found combat really entertaining. My first strategy was to bludgeon the crap out of everything with the biggest gun going. This worked well enough until I encountered my first deathclaw (a good way into the game), whereupon I was quickly slaughtered. This forced me to rethink how I approached combat and take a more creative approach (in the case of the deathclaw, cripple or poison it's legs and you can easily run rings round the thing, without it getting close enough to attack). You can approach the game as an FPS and get incredibly frustrated with it, or you can at least try and be more creative with the combat and enjoy it a whole lot more. It doesn't help that, as others pointed out, it takes a while for your combat skills to be improve. This just adds to the immersion though; you've lived all your short life in a sterile and safe vault - now you have to face the post-apocalyptic wasteland with nothing more than a piddly pop-gun of a pistol.
I've just started playing Mass Effect, so can't really form much of an opinion, but I find the combat to be a bit of a pain in the ass to be honest; the first "real" mission I took - no spoilers here - was to find Liara, and I kept getting my ass kicked. I must have re-played that fight about 20 times. I often find myself re-loading the game, because some super attack comes out of nowhere and wipes me out. The squad control system can be a pain, too - I usually let squad members do what they want, only directing their actions with the occasional tech/biotic ability. Again though, with more experience, combat does get easier.
Mass Effect is all about the story telling & dialogue - having previously played KOTOR to death, I expected this. In contrast, Fallout 3 - at least to me - is more about combat and exploration; the story is quite good, but not a patch on the first two games.
Back to the point of the point of the post... I'm willing to put up with quite a lot for a good story line. The game has to be playable though - I wouldn't put up with dire gameplay mechanics just to finish the story. I'd put up with quite a bit, but I have my limits. The first time I ever played Final Fantasy VII, it took me some time to get into it. The gameplay felt completely alien at first - I was used to fast-paced FPS games or Resident Evil, not the relatively slow and calculated turn-based combat. It took about 5 hours of putting up with confusing combat and character development before the story got it's hooks in to me; once it did, I couldn't put it down (I damn near failed exams in school, because I'd be playing that game until 3 in the morning). It took me even longer to master the combat, which forms a major part of the gameplay - in fact, I don't think I truly nailed combat until the third time I played it. It now stands out as possibly my favourite game of all time.
Admittedly FFVII is a bad example because the game play and story are just brilliant. But if it's not a style of game you're used to, the random combat and complexity of the character progression/customisation can very quickly put you off. Gameplay and story don't necessarily go hand in hand: you can have a game that's incredibly good fun to play, but has no story whatsoever - see Audiosurf, one of the best game purchases I've ever made. On the other hand, a game with a fantastic story line is not worth playing if the game mechanics/engine doesn't work well.
The game is definitely all about the story though. I'm playing through Mass Effect 2 at home right now and my girlfriend has quickly got into the habit of sitting behind me and watching me play. She says she doesn't truly know what's going on in terms of the gameplay and fighting, but she loves the story and is treating it as a TV show where she occasionally gets to jump in and yell at me to kill someone.