Originally Posted by sandys Oh and my original reason for getting it was that it was supposedly good for netbooks, I'd be interested in knowing if it actually is, as I see it, now I have three options
use win7 on HTPC if its going to be a better experience.
use win7 on netbook if its going to be a better experience.
or sell win7 and stick with my current setup.
Can you install it without using the code like you could Vista, I'm a bit reluctant to open it as I had pretty much decided to sell it on, as early previews pretty much put it at no faster than XP, XP blows on my netbook and have since moved to Linux for that and its much better than XP, after some grief I might add.
I have it on my netbook, it's much better than xp.
Speed-wise, it's not much different with the benchmarks, but real world responsiveness is much improved. Also, the new start menu and task bar are much more friendly for low resolutions. My work PC has a resolution of 1400x1050 and the start menu still takes up 3 columns when expanded so is a nightmare to use. With Windows7, things are are made a million times easier by allowing you to filter the menu as you type making opening all programs a quick and painless task and means you don't spend ages searching through rows and rows, of columns and columns, of badly organised programs. Also, the fact that the taskbar groups all programs behind the same quick launch icon means that you don't struggle to see what programs are open if you like to have a number of things open. I've not tried it, but looking at the task bar, I reckon you could get at least 20 different programs + multiple instances of each, before the full width is reached - even more if you use 'small icons' rather than the standard... not that you'd want to on a netbook!
I'm not convinced by the starter version of the os simply due to the 3 program limit. If I'm not mistaken, each tab in chrome is technically a different process, does that mean that you're limited to 3 tabs?! Or assuming you listen to music and have an email client open, 1 tab?!?! That would suck.
Multi-threading kernel - stuff runs faster / as fast on xp currently...
Better multi-tasking UI - no, alt tab is still alt tab, more shiny != faster
64-bit - YES, oh wait no, xp pro
Bigger memory footprint support, err same as above?
Direct compute, see multi threading
DX11, yay for dx11, cos dx10 really rocked my world man! ...
Native AVCHD support in MCE/Media Centre, like... go away quicktime, but use showcase anyways?
TRIM and SSD support, finally :)
More efficient Windows update method, meh - i quite like the update website myself
Better driver - kernel relationship (think "this driver stopped responding" rather than bluescreen), woot!
Better handling of hardware in general, cant say Ive noticed
Better RAID support (through additional driver/software support like Intel Matrix RAID however), meh
Generally better networking (wireless notably), yay!
Library functionality, cool for 5 mins, then I just windows + e and organise my folders logically
Quick access directories from the taskbar, see library functionality, with a bit more enthusiasm
Windows docking, whating?
Improved multi-monitor support , windows + multi gpu + folding?
Ive been dual booting it with xp pro and gOS for ages and ages, and I havent felt the need to reinstall stuff under W7. I honestly cant see what all the fuss is about, also a bit grumpy that 'stuff' isnt faster in W7 than XP - it just seems like faster hardware has allowed them to put more fluff around a couple of nice upgrades without improving outright speed.
^that list is better than the article, btw :)
edit: dual boot list should obviously read gos, xp, w7
here's a nab question, I'm running Vista 64 Ultimate at home now - if I want to upgrade to Win 7 do i need to do a reinstall of everything on my HD? Or can it install on top of Vista? I thought I read somewhere that if I get 7Ultimate that it could install without loss of data on my HD.
(BTW - been running RC for a while and am like everyone else, I love it)
Improved multi-monitor support (although still no task bar extension! boo!)
There's a really great program I've found for that, and it supports Windows 7's UI and all, it's called DisplayFusion and it's actually quite cheap (20$).
Anyways, on topic, good review, and I agree that going from Win7 to Vista/XP creates withdrawal symptoms :p
use win7 on HTPC if its going to be a better experience.
use win7 on netbook if its going to be a better experience.
or sell win7 and stick with my current setup.
I have 7 on my HTPC and its fantastic (with mediabrowser plugin)
Multi-threading kernel - stuff runs faster / as fast on xp currently...
Quote:
Direct compute, see multi threading
Key word, I think, is currently. Close to real-time video transcoding sounds nice to me... dunno about you.
Quote:
Better multi-tasking UI - no, alt tab is still alt tab, more shiny != faster
Who mentioned alt+tab? I don't see it mentioned anywhere in that respect. The better UI is more about the way the taskbar organises stuff. The way you preview windows, the way you find stuff much quicker via desktop search, the way everything is much more responsive.
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DX11, yay for dx11, cos dx10 really rocked my world man! ...
Close to real-time video transcoding sounds nice to me...
I can do that with free software right now - doesn't mean it's going to be any good.
Quote:
The better UI is more about the way the taskbar organises stuff
This is what I'm talking about. Good god, is that really all they've got to shout about? They aren't doing anything tremendously significant here.
And oh, yes. Improved multimonitor support. You mean that multimonitor support that they completely screwed in Vista? That multimonitor support that we've had for years and years in XP? Sorry, but un****ing something you previously ****ed is not progress.
Been using win 7 for months now. My machine was dual booting vista 64 and XP, and I basically went back to XP, it now dual boots win 7 64 and XP and I now use win 7. Would still keep my XP boot however - covers any old software that gets on badly with win 7 and any old devices (e.g. USB widgets with no 64 bit driver).
it's the ideal place to pin email clients, web browsers and any other application you use on a regular basis.
Isn't that what the Desktop is for? Or has that been reduced to pure picturebackground and gadget-area?
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drag windows to the edge of your screen and they'll snap to fill exactly half of the display
Finally a good use of widescreen monitors, bravo! Looking forward to this! ;)
Quote:
as with Vista, there is no button to go up one level in your folder structure
Sad, (for me) an absolute pain-in-the-butt with vista not solved (why not optional?)
I'm also not sure about the new start menu...large icons, if you have many, you resort to SCROLLING :( and they seem to shift dynamically. Also boo that there seems to be no way to use the XP (well win2000 really) style startmenu
But all in all: Vista's kept me at XP, this will go onto my new computer. :)
Close to real-time video transcoding sounds nice to me...
I can do that with free software right now - doesn't mean it's going to be any good.
Quote:
The better UI is more about the way the taskbar organises stuff
This is what I'm talking about. Good god, is that really all they've got to shout about? They aren't doing anything tremendously significant here.
And oh, yes. Improved multimonitor support. You mean that multimonitor support that they completely screwed in Vista? That multimonitor support that we've had for years and years in XP? Sorry, but un****ing something you previously ****ed is not progress.
Originally Posted by Xir I'm also not sure about the new start menu...large icons, if you have many, you resort to SCROLLING :( and they seem to shift dynamically. Also boo that there seems to be no way to use the XP (well win2000 really) style startmenu
But all in all: Vista's kept me at XP, this will go onto my new computer. :)
The start menu scrolls? After bringing the start menu up, I just type the first three/four letters of the app I'm looking for and press enter. No need to scroll. :p
as with Vista, there is no button to go up one level in your folder structure
Sad, (for me) an absolute pain-in-the-butt with vista not solved (why not optional?)
Actually there is.. you just click on the path at the top, the directories in the explorer address bar turn into clickable buttons, and they also have dropdowns to allow rapid-switch to another directory.
Originally Posted by Tim S The start menu scrolls? After bringing the start menu up, I just type the first three/four letters of the app I'm looking for and press enter. No need to scroll. :p
Exactly.
A major innovation from MS in the field of GUI design is the addition of... A command line
while 7 media center is improved overall, there are new bugs/ stupid features (it not defaulting to the correct aspect ratio all the time when windowed, it using a new wtv containter which can take up to twice the filesize of the old one, despite containing exactly the same audio and video, it going to a big prompt at the end of playing a video (with options to either delete or play the same video again, neither of which i ever want to do), when normally you would just want to go back to the directory you came from)
the pin/upin taskbar thing is no different from the quick launch before, expect now every app is further away and in a more random order.
something i noticed just now.... if you change resolution and/or monitor, you get stuff like: http://i36.tinypic.com/14lu0s3.png (note the cut off icons)
i dont actively go out looking for problems, but the amount of things i come across is insane.
Originally Posted by Tim S Key word, I think, is currently. Close to real-time video transcoding sounds nice to me... dunno about you.
That would be why I wrote the word in there doodles! :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim S Who mentioned alt+tab? I don't see it mentioned anywhere in that respect. The better UI is more about the way the taskbar organises stuff. The way you preview windows, the way you find stuff much quicker via desktop search, the way everything is much more responsive.
Sorry, was just scribbling my thoughts down rather than qualifying my statements more thoroughly.
Perhaps entirely because XP has such a crappy taskbar im in the habit of using alt+tab to move bewteen apps, kind of a FPS left hand on the keyboard route to productivity... So Im not really seeing any sort of productivity gain in 7 for stuff being more organised in places that I dont really bother with.
The preview windows are nice if I have 40 000 papers open on the desktop and want to get to the right one easily, though (if you arent using a tabbed foxit app!). Its rare that I have more than GSAS, TOPAZ, 3 or 4 papers in adobe, excel sheet, email, couple tabs in a browser and some random db open concurently though. So its of limited value to me, beyond looking shiney.
The UI being more responsive.. I think you measn more responsive than vista, rather than more responsive than xp?
VPNing (connecting to work from home... sigh...) I much prefer on 7 compared to XP, but then I eschewed Vista completely so that might be a vista thing.
To be honest all it does for me is provide a platform that will support current gen hardware / next gen games / next next gen web content. It does it with a deal of style, looks 80% as good as some of the nicer gui linux distros (slackware, gos etc), and has some neato driver handling that annoys me somewhat in xp. Asside from that, nothing to see. Yet.
VPNing (connecting to work from home... sigh...) I much prefer on 7 compared to XP, but then I eschewed Vista completely so that might be a vista thing.
i havent noticed any real difference between them. they both worked for me pretty well, its one thing i havent had problems with.
oh btw, i turned off the snapping gestures. i found they would happen more when i didnt want them to than when i actually wanted to use them. as for the window preview on the taskbar..... ive not found any use for it so far.
I for one really miss the up one directory button. It's much faster to use that button than to keep clicking on the directory icons in the address bar. Especially when only the last few levels are shown.
I also am annoyed how slow copying is. I thought they would have fixed this from vista. It seems to be at least 3 times slower than XP still.
Besides these 2 items I really love Windows 7. Definitely feels much faster than XP. Although I did just upgrade to a core i5 from a 754 amd64.
Windows 7 user here. To answer some of the questions here. Regarding the task bar. Basically if you have several instances of the same application, like multiple Firefox instances or multiple windows explorer windows and so on, they are all binded to a single taskbar icon. When you hover that icon you can select the instance that you want to open as if your switching a browser tab. It works great because the taskbar is less cluttered and it is easier to find the window you want to switch to.
Regarding GPU transcoding. Windows 7 now uses Windows Media Foundations. It substitutes the old DirectShow codec filters.
Basically any codec built based on Windows Media Foundations can use the GPU processing power. Does windows 7 can transcode certain media files like H.264 files without any external software requirement. As additional codecs are built aroun Windows Media Foundations, they to will be able to use the GPU for media viewing and transcoding to other devices.
Windows 7 doesn't come with MKV format support but you can download a Windows Media foundations MKV codec from the web and it will use your GPU. So will soon be able to use our gpu to play any media file.
As for the question regarding what Windows 7 brings that makes it that much worth upgrading?
Well same question could have been asked when Windows XP came out. What Windows 7 brings basically is built in support for a lot new
technologies and devices and added productivity features. The same exact phrase could have been used for Windows Xp when it came out.
To put it simple, it binds with the "cloud" better, Has built in DLNA support. So if you have multiple networked devices at home, you can send media to them from Windows 7 with the "play-to" feature. Or you could enable internet media streaming so you can access your media files remotely.
Another point is if you have a new computer you probably have a recent gpu and a multi-core system. Windows 7 takes advantage of this in a much better way. It is faster doing what needs to be done.
If you have a notebook you can take advantage of all this features as Windows 7 uses resources better and thus can ran faster in a notebook.
I agree with Bit-tech; it's worth installing and using.
It overshadows the previous Operating systems and Microsoft has done the things as they should be done.
Now I hope, that with the next generation we will move to new technological concepts; especially with Fermi with ARM cores when the 28nm generation of GPU/CPU starts.
Originally Posted by docodine On page seven, it seemed like you could do GPU transcoding to a Zune, but not when it was mentioned again..
Argh, my bad - it's the latter at the moment. It's more likely to get support than the iPod though (we all know what Apple is like), but we could see it in a later version of iTunes I guess. :)
I doubt we'll see transcoding video in iTunes as it could reduce sales of videos from iTunes store, but who knows, they've surprised me in the past. That is, unless they lock it down to iTunes purchases only or something.
Flip3D is pointless, I still yearn for exposé on my windows 7 machine.
Comments 26 to 50 of 111
ReplySpeed-wise, it's not much different with the benchmarks, but real world responsiveness is much improved. Also, the new start menu and task bar are much more friendly for low resolutions. My work PC has a resolution of 1400x1050 and the start menu still takes up 3 columns when expanded so is a nightmare to use. With Windows7, things are are made a million times easier by allowing you to filter the menu as you type making opening all programs a quick and painless task and means you don't spend ages searching through rows and rows, of columns and columns, of badly organised programs. Also, the fact that the taskbar groups all programs behind the same quick launch icon means that you don't struggle to see what programs are open if you like to have a number of things open. I've not tried it, but looking at the task bar, I reckon you could get at least 20 different programs + multiple instances of each, before the full width is reached - even more if you use 'small icons' rather than the standard... not that you'd want to on a netbook!
I'm not convinced by the starter version of the os simply due to the 3 program limit. If I'm not mistaken, each tab in chrome is technically a different process, does that mean that you're limited to 3 tabs?! Or assuming you listen to music and have an email client open, 1 tab?!?! That would suck.
Multi-threading kernel - stuff runs faster / as fast on xp currently...
Better multi-tasking UI - no, alt tab is still alt tab, more shiny != faster
64-bit - YES, oh wait no, xp pro
Bigger memory footprint support, err same as above?
Direct compute, see multi threading
DX11, yay for dx11, cos dx10 really rocked my world man! ...
Native AVCHD support in MCE/Media Centre, like... go away quicktime, but use showcase anyways?
TRIM and SSD support, finally :)
More efficient Windows update method, meh - i quite like the update website myself
Better driver - kernel relationship (think "this driver stopped responding" rather than bluescreen), woot!
Better handling of hardware in general, cant say Ive noticed
Better RAID support (through additional driver/software support like Intel Matrix RAID however), meh
Generally better networking (wireless notably), yay!
Library functionality, cool for 5 mins, then I just windows + e and organise my folders logically
Quick access directories from the taskbar, see library functionality, with a bit more enthusiasm
Windows docking, whating?
Improved multi-monitor support , windows + multi gpu + folding?
Ive been dual booting it with xp pro and gOS for ages and ages, and I havent felt the need to reinstall stuff under W7. I honestly cant see what all the fuss is about, also a bit grumpy that 'stuff' isnt faster in W7 than XP - it just seems like faster hardware has allowed them to put more fluff around a couple of nice upgrades without improving outright speed.
^that list is better than the article, btw :)
edit: dual boot list should obviously read gos, xp, w7
(BTW - been running RC for a while and am like everyone else, I love it)
There's a really great program I've found for that, and it supports Windows 7's UI and all, it's called DisplayFusion and it's actually quite cheap (20$).
Anyways, on topic, good review, and I agree that going from Win7 to Vista/XP creates withdrawal symptoms :p
I have 7 on my HTPC and its fantastic (with mediabrowser plugin)
At least Tim S has sence...
I can do that with free software right now - doesn't mean it's going to be any good.
This is what I'm talking about. Good god, is that really all they've got to shout about? They aren't doing anything tremendously significant here.
And oh, yes. Improved multimonitor support. You mean that multimonitor support that they completely screwed in Vista? That multimonitor support that we've had for years and years in XP? Sorry, but un****ing something you previously ****ed is not progress.
P
I'm also not sure about the new start menu...large icons, if you have many, you resort to SCROLLING :( and they seem to shift dynamically. Also boo that there seems to be no way to use the XP (well win2000 really) style startmenu
But all in all: Vista's kept me at XP, this will go onto my new computer. :)
Your opinion has been noted, thank you.
The start menu scrolls? After bringing the start menu up, I just type the first three/four letters of the app I'm looking for and press enter. No need to scroll. :p
Actually there is.. you just click on the path at the top, the directories in the explorer address bar turn into clickable buttons, and they also have dropdowns to allow rapid-switch to another directory.
Example:
http://www.tech-burrow.com/example/WinVistaExplorer.jpg
Exactly.
A major innovation from MS in the field of GUI design is the addition of... A command line
the pin/upin taskbar thing is no different from the quick launch before, expect now every app is further away and in a more random order.
something i noticed just now.... if you change resolution and/or monitor, you get stuff like: http://i36.tinypic.com/14lu0s3.png (note the cut off icons)
i dont actively go out looking for problems, but the amount of things i come across is insane.
lol pmsl XD
That would be why I wrote the word in there doodles! :)
Sorry, was just scribbling my thoughts down rather than qualifying my statements more thoroughly.
Perhaps entirely because XP has such a crappy taskbar im in the habit of using alt+tab to move bewteen apps, kind of a FPS left hand on the keyboard route to productivity... So Im not really seeing any sort of productivity gain in 7 for stuff being more organised in places that I dont really bother with.
The preview windows are nice if I have 40 000 papers open on the desktop and want to get to the right one easily, though (if you arent using a tabbed foxit app!). Its rare that I have more than GSAS, TOPAZ, 3 or 4 papers in adobe, excel sheet, email, couple tabs in a browser and some random db open concurently though. So its of limited value to me, beyond looking shiney.
The UI being more responsive.. I think you measn more responsive than vista, rather than more responsive than xp?
VPNing (connecting to work from home... sigh...) I much prefer on 7 compared to XP, but then I eschewed Vista completely so that might be a vista thing.
To be honest all it does for me is provide a platform that will support current gen hardware / next gen games / next next gen web content. It does it with a deal of style, looks 80% as good as some of the nicer gui linux distros (slackware, gos etc), and has some neato driver handling that annoys me somewhat in xp. Asside from that, nothing to see. Yet.
(Not like Im going to remove it though!)
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/6662/w7desktop.png
I posted that pic because most of you that are against W7 sound like you've never even looked at it...
i havent noticed any real difference between them. they both worked for me pretty well, its one thing i havent had problems with.
oh btw, i turned off the snapping gestures. i found they would happen more when i didnt want them to than when i actually wanted to use them. as for the window preview on the taskbar..... ive not found any use for it so far.
I also am annoyed how slow copying is. I thought they would have fixed this from vista. It seems to be at least 3 times slower than XP still.
Besides these 2 items I really love Windows 7. Definitely feels much faster than XP. Although I did just upgrade to a core i5 from a 754 amd64.
Regarding GPU transcoding. Windows 7 now uses Windows Media Foundations. It substitutes the old DirectShow codec filters.
Basically any codec built based on Windows Media Foundations can use the GPU processing power. Does windows 7 can transcode certain media files like H.264 files without any external software requirement. As additional codecs are built aroun Windows Media Foundations, they to will be able to use the GPU for media viewing and transcoding to other devices.
Windows 7 doesn't come with MKV format support but you can download a Windows Media foundations MKV codec from the web and it will use your GPU. So will soon be able to use our gpu to play any media file.
As for the question regarding what Windows 7 brings that makes it that much worth upgrading?
Well same question could have been asked when Windows XP came out. What Windows 7 brings basically is built in support for a lot new
technologies and devices and added productivity features. The same exact phrase could have been used for Windows Xp when it came out.
To put it simple, it binds with the "cloud" better, Has built in DLNA support. So if you have multiple networked devices at home, you can send media to them from Windows 7 with the "play-to" feature. Or you could enable internet media streaming so you can access your media files remotely.
Another point is if you have a new computer you probably have a recent gpu and a multi-core system. Windows 7 takes advantage of this in a much better way. It is faster doing what needs to be done.
If you have a notebook you can take advantage of all this features as Windows 7 uses resources better and thus can ran faster in a notebook.
It overshadows the previous Operating systems and Microsoft has done the things as they should be done.
Now I hope, that with the next generation we will move to new technological concepts; especially with Fermi with ARM cores when the 28nm generation of GPU/CPU starts.
I doubt we'll see transcoding video in iTunes as it could reduce sales of videos from iTunes store, but who knows, they've surprised me in the past. That is, unless they lock it down to iTunes purchases only or something.
Flip3D is pointless, I still yearn for exposé on my windows 7 machine.
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