First Look: Windows 7 Beta Performance

Originally Posted by Nicb
Security wise I have every hole blocked and every ping and talk is acknowledged or blocked. My system is 80 plus % freeware. My systems performance ratings are off the charts in every way when compared to similair systems (same hardware)with Vista. I see myself as completely up to date minus the OS....but I choose to be. And so do my savvy computer friends that do the same.

I agree with all you have said. I went from Win98 to XP (skipped in between) and I have XP running as far as I'm concerned, as a gaming friendly, sleek OS - which at the time I saw as a major jump mostly because it was not based on a DOS kernel. It's still slower than I'd like, but I have more services disabled than I can think, minimal startup progs, and I choose to use the clean looking classic theme. I use objectdock for a bit of snazz and functionality, including a weather icon and nice looking clock. I use a third party software firewall, in addition to the hardware firewall my router provides. My documents I keep awayyyy from the C drive in case of system meltdown and the need to reformat. My start menu is minimalistic and organised the way I like. I have also installed an explorer extension that allows tabbed explorer browsing, and the "breadcrumbs" style navigation - which is one of the few things I found nice in Vista.

Vista currently offers me nothing that I cannot achieve with my current setup, other than directx 10 - but that I honestly think is deliberately kept from XP users, and not enough for an upgrade.

One thing that I find interesting, if not amazing, is that many users say that "if you have the beef in your system, you might as well go for the newer OS." When did the OS get to be the resource eater? I like a fast, sleek OS, so that my expensive hardware can spend most of its time doing what I want it to do - such as manipulating large files and images, playing games, watching high resolution video, listening to crystal clear sound etc etc. If I double my RAM I sure as hell don't want it to go towards making the OS pretty!

However it does sound like Windows 7 will be the one to get when I am forced to upgrade because the software I want to use will not run on XP.

If you're a fan of the sidebar widget in Vista, but find them limited to the one side, the Windows 7 widgets are now completely moveable to anywhere on the screen. This means they can be bunched in a corner, put along the top, or dumped on a second/third monitor, depending on what your habits are.

Huh???? You can do that on Vista.. just drag the widgets out of the sidebar then close the side bar. I have a few on my desktop, the weather a clock and currency. You never have to see or use the side bar, on boot the widgets just appear on the desktop in their proper locations.

Originally Posted by Joeymac
on boot the widgets just appear on the desktop in their proper locations.

Actually no, they shift to the left of few pixels. Vista gadget bug.

To everyone who's saying ditch the 32bit version: erm, NO!

We might be computer savvy here, but I know a huge number of people who are looking forward to upgrading to Win 7, but aren't going to update their hardware in the process. A good Pentium 4 can still run 99% of everything without anyone noticing any kind of slow down at all. Hell, my Pentium 4 is still working like a dream, I've never come across anything it can't handle. Why should I have to upgrade to a 64bit Processor just because a bunch of elitist hardware buffs think no-one is still using 32bit? In fact, until I actually start noticing Processor bottle necks (which to be fair is probably going to be years away) I'll upgrade (I will need a new mother board too actually, so YEARS away). But until then, I'm staying 32 bit.

And you'd be surprised how many people are in my boat. Many people have a "if it aint broke, don't fix it" attitude to hardware (me included), but are looking forward to upgrading to Win 7. My 3 year old PC can still run 99% of games like a dream. L4D is maxed out with V-Sync and 4x AA and never drops below a noticeable frame rate. Honestly, PC hardware is far more spread out than you probably realise and there are huge numbers of very enthusiastic PC users that will have quite old machines, because 99% of things still run on them perfectly well! So enough with all this 64bit only stuff.

what i really don't understand is that why are XP users so looking forward to 7 whereas it's basically Vista, just look at version: Vista: 6000, 7: 6001.

sure Vista got bad publicity, but since launch, it has been mostly problem free for me all the time. only problem i had was nVidia and ATI driver crashing, which WILL also happen in 7 seeing it's based on the same driver model.


for 64bit, sure it can be an issue for "if it aint broken, don't fix it" people, but look at the number of developers who are unwilling to simply recompile their code into 64bit. the only way forward is to ditch the 32bit and go for the new one.
for Win7 though, 32bit is necessary as it is also marketed towards the portable market, where 32bit is all it can run.

all im saying is that Microsoft should simply do 3 version of Win7: Windows 7 Portable, Windows 7 Basic and Windows 7 Ultimate. where to simplify matters, the Ultimate is 64bit ONLY.

Bauul... when we say ditch the 32-bit version, it means: "if you have a 64-bit processor, take the advantage of not using the 32-bit version, especially when you have no reason to not do so."

Now if you have an old printer without 64-bit drivers (let's say), where your are in tight budget and don't have the funds to change it, but absolutely must switch Windows 7, then yes again, go with 32-bit.

The problem is some people that do have the computer power, do have a 64-bit processor, have 2-3-4GB of RAM, and decide to have the 32-bit because they think it's better (because they think like with XP where the XP 64-bit is crap, or doesn't know in the field, or are misinformed, or didn't have the choice (ie: purchased a pre-assembled computer and no option to select the 64-bit version), or other reasons.

Interesting video:
See: http://channel9.msdn.com/shows/Going+Deep/Mark-Russinovich-Inside-Windows-7/

The title sounds like cheap geek porn. Inside Windows 7: Going deep. :|
Will watch it once I'm at my girlfriend's house and have 'real' internet access (read: broadband).

I will definitely go 64bit with Windows 7 but I downloaded the 32bit Beta because it's 1 GB smaller. Though I'm still pretty sure we all will have to go back to Vista/XP for quite some time before 7 hits the shelves. Beta ends June/August and retail is to be expected when? H209? Q409? 2010? I really hope it'll be released before the Beta expires and it looks pretty good if you ask me but it's still an OS and those always take their time.

I've been playing with Windows 7 for a few hours now and I absolutely love it. Even though I have a pretty descent machine ( Q6600 + 4G RAM + 8800 GT) it does seem to run noticeably faster than Vista, even though I'm running Windows 7 off of an old 120Gb IDE hard drive. Of course, Vista is not exactly slow on my machine, but I haven't seen OMFG slowdown moments that Vista likes to have every once in a while.

The most "performance" gain I get is from the cleaned up user interface. I like the new unified task bar idea, but I'd like to see some kind of drawer system and I'd like an option for active applications to jump to the right of inactive shortcuts. One small feature that I LOVE is the ability to VPN into my office by clicking on the Networking tab. It's been greatly streamlined and is much more intuitive to use. I also like the new Snipping Tool and the new Paint. I'm a desktop graphics software developer and I tend to use Paint quite a bit, plus documenting stuff with screenshots just got a lot better.

Another great feature is the fact that ALL Vista drivers work, even the ones that don't. Let me explain: some driver installation utilities won't start on an OS they don't know about. What an annoying "Feature" :(!!! Thankfully, all you have to do is right-click on the setup executable's icon and select "Troubleshoot compatibility"--problem solved! Microsoft also needs this feature for uninstallation though. I've encountered a problem removing one of the programs that I installed, because uninstaller kept telling me that "This installer only supports Win2k/XP/Vista". I've already installed the program, STUPID!!!

I actually like Vista, but it does feel unpolished at times. It feels like you're having to pay for this new eye candy with performance. In Win7 it's a lot more seamless and natural, save for some weird window drag stuttering--supposed to be an NVIDIA driver problem. I think a lot of flamery about programs crashing in Vista should not be directed at Microsoft. They finally decided to put in controls that broke programs that SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN RUNNING IN THE FIRST PLACE. It's sloppy coding that causes those crashes, not the OS!

In conclusion. I like Windows 7. It's been completely stable for me so far, and it's just Beta 1. I'm getting me a copy as soon as this thing comes out. Meanwhile, I'm running all the betas and RC's until the release date.

P.S.

Does anybody know how to sign up for bug reporting? I got my copy off of MSDN and it will not let me "Send Feedback".

Originally Posted by aon`aTv.gsus666
The title sounds like cheap geek porn. Inside Windows 7: Going deep. :|
Beta ends June/August and retail is to be expected when? H209? Q409? 2010? I really hope it'll be released before the Beta expires and it looks pretty good if you ask me but it's still an OS and those always take their time.

I'm sure they'll have more betas and RCs before it comes out. Final Betas/RCs usually time out a couple of months after the software is released. I'm sure that's the case with MSDN version(s). I can't speak for public Beta, but I hope they have enough sense to do the same.

Originally Posted by rembo666
Does anybody know how to sign up for bug reporting? I got my copy off of MSDN and it will not let me "Send Feedback".

Yea, you need to be a Microsoft partner. It's a 2500$US per month bases. yea.... it must be a checked with my name and send to me...

Seriously, where you downloaded Windows 7, on the page (or e-mail) you should have Windows 7 product key. You need it to get out of the 30-day trial, and be able to send feedback to Microsoft.

Originally Posted by Bauul
truth

True, if only Intel had gone 64bit at the same time as the a64 the number of 32bit chips would be vastly reduced. My mums athlon xp is still doing the business but i'm not sure there are many boxes of that era still around and in daily use.

RC is due for April followed by release to manfacturers by August so expect it to be shipping on machines by November and Jan on the shelves in it's own box.

Last I saw, most Pentium 4's have EM64T?

Am I the only one who can't figure out why everyone thinks it’s a new feature to be able to put sidebar gadgets anywhere on the desktop? You can already do that in Vista.

What about Windows 7's OpenGL performance? Windows Vista has considerably worse OpenGL performance vs XP. Atleast ive noticed a huge difference with OpenGL apps, like Maya and others.

Wondering if it's as good as XP was.


Could someone With a dual Boot of Windows 7 and Windows Vista run the OpenGL test on Cinebench? And compare the results.

Originally Posted by kenco_uk
Last I saw, most Pentium 4's have EM64T?

not this one...

Originally Posted by wuyanxu
what i really don't understand is that why are XP users so looking forward to 7 whereas it's basically Vista, just look at version: Vista: 6000, 7: 6001.

Because if #7 is optimized Vista, why not just skip Vista :) .

As a skilled XP user there are few things I don't like about Vista. Under XP I got used to finding 75% of all settings in control panel(clasical view - legacy of Win98 user interface!) and rest after right-clicking This Computer \ Properties or \ Manage. Vista is pretty confusing to me. I don't see a single reason why MS moved / separated so many settings all over Vista. Some time ago I needed to test headphone output so I disabled loudspeakers(wasn't set as default when I plugged in headphones). I spent good hour looking where to enable loudpseakers again. I run through various volume settings, device manager - until I accidentaly right clicked and displayed context menu where I didn't expect it...at last...
That's why I'm looking forward to #7. I hope they organized it a bit better than vista.

OpenGL performance cannot be calculated due to the lack of official and optimized and final version of Windows 7. So such result would be irrelevant. It might be faster, but when the final version is out of Windows 7 and the dirvers it might be worst, like it could be the reverse scenario.

Windows 7 BETA is not supposed to be your trial version of Windows 7.

Originally Posted by Kúsař
I hope they organized it a bit better than vista.

No miracles here, but it's sightly more ""organized"". I actually think that Vista was more organized than XP, but ok...

What you can do now in Windows 7 is that you can serach for an option.
For example, if you type "Mouse", you get stuff like:
"Mouse settings"
"Change how the mouse looks"
"Change how the mouse moves"
and so on for about all the options you can find inside the mouse setting panel.

What I really like about windows 7 is that it's the Windows with the most consistent layout since Windows 95. It's not perfect, but it's miles ahead of XP and improved over Vista.

Originally Posted by Kúsař
Because if #7 is optimized Vista, why not just skip Vista :) .

As a skilled XP user there are few things I don't like about Vista. Under XP I got used to finding 75% of all settings in control panel(clasical view - legacy of Win98 user interface!) and rest after right-clicking This Computer \ Properties or \ Manage. Vista is pretty confusing to me. I don't see a single reason why MS moved / separated so many settings all over Vista. Some time ago I needed to test headphone output so I disabled loudspeakers(wasn't set as default when I plugged in headphones). I spent good hour looking where to enable loudpseakers again. I run through various volume settings, device manager - until I accidentaly right clicked and displayed context menu where I didn't expect it...at last...
That's why I'm looking forward to #7. I hope they organized it a bit better than vista.

so what's topping you simply press START and type in the stuff you want?

start -> "mouse" gives me mouse options
start -> "sound" for sound options

i go to university lab computers, and i am lost. XP's so stupid way of launching stuff made my work efficiency so low, it's mostly searching for programs/files. at home, on my Vista machine, START -> "whatever-i-want" will ALWAYS come up with the stuff i want.

Win7 will only take after Vista, it will never be a modified XP, and it should never be viewed such a way. if you are familiar with XP and hate Vista (for reasons beyond my understanding) stick with XP, because 7 will only make you remember it's Vista.

Originally Posted by GoodBytes
OpenGL performance cannot be calculated due to the lack of official and optimized and final version of Windows 7. So such result would be irrelevant. It might be faster, but when the final version is out of Windows 7 and the dirvers it might be worst, like it could be the reverse scenario.

Windows 7 BETA is not supposed to be your trial version of Windows 7.

Obviously I understand that. This thread is about Windows 7 Beta performance. So I'm interested to see how Windows 7 BETA performs in relation to Windows Vista with OpenGL. That's a fair Question.

Originally Posted by wuyanxu
Win7 will only take after Vista, it will never be a modified XP, and it should never be viewed such a way. if you are familiar with XP and hate Vista (for reasons beyond my understanding) stick with XP, because 7 will only make you remember it's Vista.

But I'll have to upgrade OS sooner or later(there's no DX10 in XP) and from what I have read #7 will give me more control and - judging by screenshots - it has better layout than vista.
The reason why I don't like vista surely isn't beyond your understanding :) - I just don't like getting used to vastly changed layout.
These finesses like start->anything sounds really cool but I didn't even know it's there. In fact if they have kept the same layout in Vista I'd be delighted with it and I'd learn these new "start->anything" finesses over time.

Originally Posted by Kúsař
But I'll have to upgrade OS sooner or later(there's no DX10 in XP) and from what I have read #7 will give me more control and - judging by screenshots - it has better layout than vista.
The reason why I don't like vista surely isn't beyond your understanding :) - I just don't like getting used to vastly changed layout.
These finesses like start->anything sounds really cool but I didn't even know it's there. In fact if they have kept the same layout in Vista I'd be delighted with it and I'd learn these new "start->anything" finesses over time.

let me get this straight, Win7 interface is based on Vista with changes makes it look more like Mac OSX rather than XP. and you prefer the layout of 7.

the fact you didn't know quick search was there is just a case of seeing all the bad reputation. Vista is a perfectly fine OS on its own, there is no reason to look down on Vista. besides, benchmarks have shown very little performance gain from Vista to 7. and after SP1, Vista performs almost the same as XP anyway, so the performance arguement has gone out of the window.

bottom line is that your post shows distinct sign of just hearing about the bad reputation. all im saying is that give it a try and you'll get use to it, it's far easier to get use to comparing the the new Win7 task bar.

I can see where kusar is coming from, neither vista nor 7 offer much to make me want to upgrade (over 2K), however much as i was dragged kicking from win2k it is inevitable i will have to leave xp behind however if can put this off as long as possible, fine, so while win7 may just be a version of vista i still don't mind too much since i'll have saved at least one upgrade stage and probably £80.

Besides they seem to be stealing more and more from linux and os x maybe they'll have a decent wm sometime soon.