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Cyberlink PowerDVD 8 & Media Show 4

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Joeymac 24th March 2008, 08:18 Quote
So you have to buy the Ultra edition for 5.1 DTS? That's ridiculous.
Quote:
It supports the interactive standards: HDi, BD-J and BD 1.1 – this is a key feature given the mouse option rather than remote only. Having used PowerDVD Ultra for several months testing HTPC motherboards, we’ve found Cyberlink regularly updates its software to support new features – these updates are free and the good thing is that the software prompts you when there’s a new one available.

Is this wrong? Because surely if it supports HDi then it must support HD DVD, what would be the point of including otherwise?

Really, the only reason to actually buy PowerDVD would be for Blu-Ray/HD DVD. If you are using it for DVD alone then you are going to use the free copy (that comes with all video related hardware), or just use freeware. If they've dumped HD DVD already that cuts out a chunk of that small market. Would make more sense to dump if for version 9.

Media thing looks like a waste of time when you could use Picasa for the photo stuff. If you only get the 3D swanky interface with Vista, then Vista has it's own 3D slideshow. The video playback functions look pointless.

Basically...... why? comes to mind. Looks like a load of bloaty rubbish.
Bindibadgi 24th March 2008, 09:21 Quote
I've got to double check the HDi standard - there was a late change in spec and some of Cyberlink's documents weren't changed.

EDIT: Just talked to Cyberlink and the Ultra version supports HD DVD but will be available at a later date.

I'll double check the Ultra edition too. MoovieLive doesn't interest you? ;) You are right about 5.1 DTS on Ultra version - that is total crap. I'll bring that up with Cyberlink.

You bring up good points Joey :) and you don't just get the interface in Vista - you can use it in XP too.
Glider 24th March 2008, 09:42 Quote
Seems like a lot of bloat... I'll stick to mplayer and CLI for playing my media...
Joeymac 24th March 2008, 10:30 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindibadgi
I've got to double check the HDi standard - there was a late change in spec and some of Cyberlink's documents weren't changed.

EDIT: Just talked to Cyberlink and the Ultra version supports HD DVD but will be available at a later date.

I'll double check the Ultra edition too. MoovieLive doesn't interest you? ;) You are right about 5.1 DTS on Ultra version - that is total crap. I'll bring that up with Cyberlink.

You bring up good points Joey :) and you don't just get the interface in Vista - you can use it in XP too.

.. But you don't get the 3D interface elements with XP? I though it said that somewhere.

On the MoovieLive stuff... didn't read that first time. Saw "social networking" and skipped to the next page :P
I've read it now, the collecting and cataloguing backups is a good feature. There definitly needs to be some good software for that job. But I don't think I would want to use powerdvd software to do it (when I have the space to actually backup my DVD collection 'losslessly'.).
Firstly their interfaces look clunky, appletv rip off or not. And I would want something open source. My music is all trapped up in itunes now (ratings and play-counts etc.) and I wouldn't want to go down that route again for a movie collection.
As for the mash ups/social bumf.. etc. I can't see I would ever use that. I wouldn't listen to a most director's commentaries.... let alone some youtube retard. Maybe it would be good for "film experts" or tutors to offer commentaries with. But since it's a closed system that works through software people have to pay for, that's never going to happen. I would rather wait for something like Song Bird for movies, which is made using mozilla. Seems more sensible.

Is PowerDVD still the only software that gpus allow full H264 and VC1 offloading? That's reason enough never to buy this product. How stifling is it for the PC industry that we find ourselves in this situation? People could be doing so much with their GPUs.

The quagmire of DRM and encryption schemes is just destroying the "PC". You should tell Cyberlink to make a lightweight player that has a "less is more" interface and make a single version. Then tell them to start busting some studio heads. They have the entire 'HD'HTPC market in their hands.. that's drive makers to graphic card manufacturers, the lot. They could use that power to lay down some rules and get this crap in order.
I would buy PowerDVD 8 when it comes out if I actually "knew" it was going to work. But I tried it before with my HD DVD drive and there was some problem with my graphics card.. then my driver..... then my display. I got a new system (needed one anyway), decide to try it again, all HDCPed-up. I see Dreamworks logo, then it slows to a crawl. So now I'm not going to bother because there feels like a 90% chance I'll have to return everything.
I'm certainly not going to bother with PowerDVD 8 (or Blu-Ray) if they have no HD DVD support in there. A promise of it being included at a later date isn't really enough.

Sorry... rant over
Nikumba 24th March 2008, 10:44 Quote
You mention it will upscale DVDs to HD res, but what about upscaling of xvids, divx etc?

Kimbie
Joeymac 24th March 2008, 10:53 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikumba
You mention it will upscale DVDs to HD res, but what about upscaling of xvids, divx etc?

Kimbie

On a PC???.. Everything is upscaled on PCs. Just press the "full screen" button on whatever video player you like and your graphics card does the rest. If videos weren't up-scaled to the panels resolution then you would be watching all your videos in a little box in the middle of the screen.
Glider 24th March 2008, 11:00 Quote
I tought upscaling also meanth reducing the blur because of the lower resolution?
Joeymac 24th March 2008, 11:24 Quote
Yes. Graphic card does that for all video you watch on the system. If it didn't, then the video would be scaled with via the basic "nearest neighbour" approach. That results in big ol blocks everywhere.
Glider 24th March 2008, 11:26 Quote
Which I always get... I always thought up scaling involves re-encoding...
Joeymac 24th March 2008, 11:58 Quote
No upscaling can't get anything out of video that isn't there already. It just means zooming out the video, how well it does it depends on how much processing you do to the image. Basically the lines and shapes in the video are tracked within a sample size (8x8 pixel blocks or something like that) then those shapes are increased in pixel resolution. Upscaling won't make a 700MB xvid file into HD, but throwing some processing at it can help matters.
Nearly all media players and codecs (free) do this upscaling, many are tweakable so that they can be better quality than PowerDVD etc.

Here's what it looks like in Media Player Classic (home cinema version).

http://pix.nofrag.com/2/d/e/568c3625eacf47db118c9ea9c6a91.html
Bindibadgi 24th March 2008, 13:10 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joeymac
many are tweakable so that they can be better quality than PowerDVD etc.

Not entirely true. If you use a good graphics card with enough shader power and PureVideo or UVD you'll get a fantastic quality output and upscaling, although, yes, it is less tweakable, but you're still offloading everything from CPU. - this is also why it'll slow to a crawl in HD, you need a very beefy dual core CPU or GPU offloading.

But the quality is a highly subjective issue and someone who's spent the best part of a few hours tweaking ffdshow (I've been there) will always contest it looks better than anything else :P

I will freely admit the open-source community does a fantastic job with that but until they made ffdshow compatible with h.264 and VC1, plus get round the HDCP encryption PowerDVD, WinDVD and the Nvidia one (if they still do it), you can't watch encrypted stuff.

And for you having problems with HD playing: http://www.cyberlink.com/english/support/bdhd_support/diagnosis.jsp That'll tell you what works and what doesn't on your PC ;) Like I did say on one of the pages - HDCP is a frikkin nightmare and everyone has to dance to the beat of content producers. It pisses me off no end.
Quote:
The quagmire of DRM and encryption schemes is just destroying the "PC". You should tell Cyberlink to make a lightweight player that has a "less is more" interface and make a single version. Then tell them to start busting some studio heads. They have the entire 'HD'HTPC market in their hands.. that's drive makers to graphic card manufacturers, the lot. They could use that power to lay down some rules and get this crap in order.
I would buy PowerDVD 8 when it comes out if I actually "knew" it was going to work. But I tried it before with my HD DVD drive and there was some problem with my graphics card.. then my driver..... then my display. I got a new system (needed one anyway), decide to try it again, all HDCPed-up. I see Dreamworks logo, then it slows to a crawl. So now I'm not going to bother because there feels like a 90% chance I'll have to return everything.
I'm certainly not going to bother with PowerDVD 8 (or Blu-Ray) if they have no HD DVD support in there. A promise of it being included at a later date isn't really enough.

The less is more approach I agree with: something simple that works, to me a simple plugin for MCE would be awesome but but it'll be hard to make it cost less. BD/HD licenses currently cost A LOT, even though Cyberlink is a BD part patent holder itself. Everytime you buy a graphics card you pay for it, everytime you buy Vista you pay for it - all sorts. The only people that lay down the ground rules are content owners and Hollywood. :( Tbh you just sound a bit raw because you own a HD drive not BD :P ;)
Joeymac 24th March 2008, 14:00 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindibadgi
Not entirely true. If you use a good graphics card with enough shader power and PureVideo or UVD you'll get a fantastic quality output and upscaling, although, yes, it is less tweakable, but you're still offloading everything from CPU. - this is also why it'll slow to a crawl in HD, you need a very beefy dual core CPU or GPU offloading.

New system is quadcore with a 2600xt. It'll do the job, PowerDVD just wouldn't work. The CPU wasn't taxed... no warnings, started ok for a few seconds then it slowed to a crawl.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindibadgi
The less is more approach I agree with: something simple that works, to me a simple plugin for MCE would be awesome but but it'll be hard to make it cost less. BD/HD licenses currently cost A LOT, even though Cyberlink is a BD part patent holder itself. Everytime you buy a graphics card you pay for it, everytime you buy Vista you pay for it - all sorts. The only people that lay down the ground rules are content owners and Hollywood. :( Tbh you just sound a bit raw because you own a HD drive not BD :P ;)

Hardly raw because I got a HD drive. If I didn't get one in 2006, I would have gotten one recently... the firesale prices are so dam good. Heroes HD boxset £14.. Bourne Ultimatum £6... tip of the iceberg. Brought more discs since it's been canned than I brought in the previous 18 months. You try and get those on Blu-Ray for comparable prices when they do finally come out. It'll be years, if ever.

I would like to get a Blu-Ray drive (PS3 will cost nearly as much as my PC.. rather use the PC as it could do it), but as I said, I can't trust PowerDVD will work properly. 7 doesn't work with my HD DVD drive on a fresh Vista SP1 install. I couldn't even check PowerDVD 8 will work using a HD DVD (to get even a vague idea) because 8 won't have HD DVD out of the box. Suppose I'll check out WinDVD, I read that had even more problems though, like BD+ discs.
Bindibadgi 24th March 2008, 14:22 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joeymac
New system is quadcore with a 2600xt. It'll do the job, PowerDVD just wouldn't work. The CPU wasn't taxed... no warnings, started ok for a few seconds then it slowed to a crawl.

Sounds like a HDCP problem then. Are you using an OEM version that came with the HD drive?

Quote:
Hardly raw because I got a HD drive. If I didn't get one in 2006, I would have gotten one recently... the firesale prices are so dam good. Heroes HD boxset £14.. Bourne Ultimatum £6... tip of the iceberg. Brought more discs since it's been canned than I brought in the previous 18 months. You try and get those on Blu-Ray for comparable prices when they do finally come out. It'll be years, if ever.

I would like to get a Blu-Ray drive (PS3 will cost nearly as much as my PC.. rather use the PC as it could do it), but as I said, I can't trust PowerDVD will work properly. 7 doesn't work with my HD DVD drive on a fresh Vista SP1 install. I couldn't even check PowerDVD 8 will work using a HD DVD (to get even a vague idea) because 8 won't have HD DVD out of the box. Suppose I'll check out WinDVD, I read that had even more problems though, like BD+ discs.

I can't say I've ever had a problem with 7 Ultra, but you'll have to wait until 8 Ultra for HD DVD support - however I would be pissed if I couldn't get it to work. Is your monitor HDCP? Are you using HDMI? You can try WinDVD - but I dont know the cost and feature comparison off hand. I do agree that BD prices are just silly though :( Thank Sony, I suppose. :P;)
Joeymac 24th March 2008, 14:45 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindibadgi
Sounds like a HDCP problem then. Are you using an OEM version that came with the HD drive?

I can't say I've ever had a problem with 7 Ultra, but you'll have to wait until 8 Ultra for HD DVD support - however I would be pissed if I couldn't get it to work. Is your monitor HDCP? Are you using HDMI? You can try WinDVD - but I dont know the cost and feature comparison off hand. I do agree that BD prices are just silly though :( Thank Sony, I suppose. :P;)

HDCP checks out on the advisors. Using a Samsung 1080p TV and HDMI cable... retail version of 7 :(

WinDVD 9 trial version doesn't include Blu-Ray/HD DVD playback. Do these companies not realise that you might need to try these features, especially these (!), before you buy?
Bindibadgi 24th March 2008, 15:00 Quote
But it costs to include them :P

Retail version of 7 ultra? If so, I dont know :|
[USRF]Obiwan 24th March 2008, 16:33 Quote
VLC can play br/hd iso's if your system can handle it, otherwise switch to powerdvd 7+ for some hardware acceleration and disable their crap h264 codec with regsrv32 /u (folder)\videofilter\cl264dec.ax. download the CoreAVC and have it registered as the primary directshow filter for x264 add some nvidias purevideo and then Haali, coreAAC and AC3 filter for audo processing magic and you're set.
Bindibadgi 24th March 2008, 16:44 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by [USRF]Obiwan
VLC can play br/hd iso's if your system can handle it, otherwise switch to powerdvd 7+ for some hardware acceleration and disable their crap h264 codec with regsrv32 /u (folder)\videofilter\cl264dec.ax. download the CoreAVC and have it registered as the primary directshow filter for x264 add some nvidias purevideo and then Haali, coreAAC and AC3 filter for audo processing magic and you're set.

Nice tip! ;)

I might try that and test the difference. :)
Ramble 24th March 2008, 19:08 Quote
Cyberlink still have the best H.264 decoder I've seen, flawless quality and it offloads too.
Their MPEG decoder ain't too shabby either and that's why I continue to use them.
konsta 24th March 2008, 19:45 Quote
To be perfectly honest, is there any real perceivable difference between watching a DVD on this very expensive piece of software that probably takes 1GB of disk space and installs goodness only knows how many services, and using Media Player Classic, which is free, and weighs 4MB?

If I'm watching a DVD on my PC, I basically want a play button, a pause button and a fullscreen button.

(I don't own any HD drives, and probably won't do for years...nor does anyone else I know, come to that)
Ramble 24th March 2008, 20:40 Quote
No, there isn't. Free MPEG-2 decoders have gotten just as good.
However play some 1080p H.264 material and you will notice a difference, on MPC it'll be crawling along with 100% CPU usage and with powerdvd it'll fly along at 50% usage or less.
MonkeyNutZ 25th March 2008, 01:25 Quote
For a second I was like "Oh sweet, there's a picture of an Opel GT on Bit-tech." Then sadly I realized after actually looking at the picture that it was in fact a Corvette.
Saivert 25th March 2008, 01:25 Quote
konsta: I guess you don't download High def videos from the internet, but a lot of people do even though some of it is copyright infringement.

CoreAVC is the only software based H.264 decoder with acceptable quality and good performance (don't need quad core CPU or anything). Cyberlink H.264 decoder only works reliable inside the PowerDVD application and is useless for pretty much everything else. It does however support some forms of H.264 (PAFF) better than CoreAVC but you will be better off with MainConcept's codec then.

For all video content the Media Player Classic Home Cinema software is excellent, It not comes with it's own H.264/AVC decoder and is also available in a 64-bit version (x64).

What about 64-bit compatibility? PowerDVD 7 Ultra crashes during Blu-ray playback on Windows XP x64 Edition.

I don't need anything shiny. I just want something that works.

Oh and btw: Cyberlink is EVIL!
Bindibadgi 25th March 2008, 10:28 Quote
LOL where did you get that from? :P All the people I've met from there have been very nice, actually :p
legoman666 25th March 2008, 16:20 Quote
PowerDVD is and always has been a bloated piece of crap. MPC + CoreAVC FTW.
Fozzy 26th March 2008, 05:54 Quote
/offtopic I don't really care about the software since I have full nero on my computer. I just wanted to say that is my favorite corvette on the front page. Those stingrays really call to me. Not all for the baby blue. I like em' in gloss block or rat black with the headers coming straight out the hood. Or with twin exhaust out the side with an enormous blower in the front........mmmmmmmmmmhmmmmmmm tasty. /endofftopic
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