Originally Posted by completemadness While your right, X86-64 offers more advantages then just more ram
Currently, it really doesn't, because no-one is programming 64bit software (well almost no-one) the only improvements will be OS and drivers, which shouldn't take that many resources anyway
So currently, the only real advantage of 64bit is more memory, and the main disadvantage is still driver support
But it will improve, but in the mean time, you may as well stick with X86
There's a lot of ignorance surrounding x86-64 and there are actually more applications than you would think... Everything from Antivirus, to firewalls, to WinRAR/7-zip, to VirtualDub/Xvid, to Firefox, to a fairly decent list of games all with 64-bit versions. I could go on...
The glaring omission from that list is Adobe Photoshop CS3, which also has x86-64 extensions.
To say that there is nobody coding for 64-bit is short sighted. Games are crashing like flies because they're running out of memory (they're hitting the 2GB application limit in 32-bit), so it's no surprise that developers are starting to include 64-bit executables.
Originally Posted by Tim S There's a lot of ignorance surrounding x86-64 and there are actually more applications than you would think... Everything from Antivirus, to firewalls, to WinRAR/7-zip, to VirtualDub/Xvid, to Firefox, to a fairly decent list of games all with 64-bit versions. I could go on...
Originally Posted by Tim S To say that there is nobody coding for 64-bit is short sighted. Games are crashing like flies because they're running out of memory (they're hitting the 2GB application limit in 32-bit), so it's no surprise that developers are starting to include 64-bit executables.
yep, was reading the STALKER crash on running out of 2GB memory about 5mins ago.
if i were to use 64bit, can i still use my 32bit antivirus? (Nod32) i really like the idea of 64bit, and 50% performance increase in Crysis with a quad core, but after my incident with Vista 64bit flipping out, i am weary to install it again.
off topic: are there any GOOD partition tools for Vista? Norton partition Magic don't work in Vista anymore. i want to dual boot 32bit and 64bit.
Originally Posted by Tim S To say that there is nobody coding for 64-bit is short sighted. Games are crashing like flies because they're running out of memory (they're hitting the 2GB application limit in 32-bit), so it's no surprise that developers are starting to include 64-bit executables.
yep, was reading the STALKER crash on running out of 2GB memory about 5mins ago.
if i were to use 64bit, can i still use my 32bit antivirus? (Nod32) i really like the idea of 64bit, and 50% performance increase in Crysis with a quad core, but after my incident with Vista 64bit flipping out, i am weary to install it again.
off topic: are there any GOOD partition tools for Vista? Norton partition Magic don't work in Vista anymore. i want to dual boot 32bit and 64bit.
Unless there are known compatibility issues, you should be able to run any 32-bit app under Vista 64-bit in hybrid mode.
Originally Posted by cpu121 However, OEM copies are limited to 32bit or 64bit.
Poops...
Ahh well. Buying vista ultimate OEM twice is still cheaper than buying it retail :p
I only use my PC for games, making websites, watching videos, listening to music and browsing the net so I may make the change at some point. It will be quite a swift process too as I store everything I want to keep mirrored on an external hard drive anyway. So just wipe the internal drive and re-install as 64 bit.
Has anyone used Flash CS3 on 64 bit per-chance? I know that has some serious bugs on vista 32 bit. I can't even begin to wonder how messed up it must be on 64 bit.
You wrote it yourself in the article - without the OS, driver (hardware), and application (software) support, it won't be able to take advantage of the 64-bit anyways. (Recompile, re-write, or otherwise).
That would mean that "did the next generation of processors really needed to support 64-bit computing on the desktop front?" Considering that people are still using XP (so much that OEM had to revert back to offering it), I would think that the answer is no. In fact, most of the hardware changes that were implemented in the Opteron (and subsequently Athlon 64) came from the defunct API EV6/EV7 platform. Most people I have met and talked with still think that 2 GB of RAM is plenty sufficient (with maybe the exception of Vista, but Vista's an odd-ball anyways).
When I attended the AMD Tech Tour conference in Toronto in 2004, that was one of the questions that I posed to one of the engineers on site. And the net conclusion from that discussion was that what IS different about current 64-bit offerings is that for people who can actually utilize (need) the 64-bit memory addressing capabilities, it doesn't cost them $30k for a UNIX workstation. THAT is the most fundamental difference - which is driven by memory (addressing/usage) needs, supported by hardware and software. (i.e. if you don't need more than 3 GB, 32-bit is fine - which is still the case for the consumer desktop market).
You wrote it yourself in the article - without the OS, driver (hardware), and application (software) support, it won't be able to take advantage of the 64-bit anyways. (Recompile, re-write, or otherwise).
He also mentioned the ability for a 64 bit OS to double up on some 32 bit code to get a speed increase without actually having to have 64 bit applications
My experience in the past with XP 32/64 was that the latter ran everything I threw at it about 15% faster and I'm talking 32 bit programs here :)
64 bit vista is to me at least a clear choice, so long as you have a good reason to pick up vista in the first place.
Originally Posted by Mister_Tad From what I understand, retail keys are inter-compatible with either 32 or 64-bit versions of Vista. My key can be used for either 32-bit or 64-bit versions anyway.
The only issue I've had with Vista 64 is one with Creative, unsurprisingly, as they've still not pulled their finger out and got some 64-bit E-Mu drivers together. But the same goes with 32-bit Vista as well :/
Yeh i think your right, OEM key's deffinetly don't work.
Creative need to get there act together and support drivers for my 32bit version of Vista, It's a joke you would of thought that they would have sorted it by now.
the key you get is for 32 or 64 on vista (just that you only get the 32 bit disk or the 64bit disk) if you can get an 64bit disk (download it) the key will work, i know this due to one of my customers buying vista 32 OEM and Vista 64 OEM and we used the 32 key on 64 no problems, unlike XP the keys are interchangable between 32 and 64 disk
Been using Vista 64 since launch more or less, Very stable, performs well and if anything getting better as time ( and drivers) go by. Like everyone else the biggest problems were with slow hardware manufacturers bringing out working drivers. I am still reluctant to install my X-Fi card again due the sheer amount of aggravation creative has caused me trying to get it to work properly.
incorrect completemadness, there are 64bit versions of many popular programs out currently. A quick look at planetamd64.com reveals several hundred thousand downloads in the 64bit native apps section. Of course, some of them might be repeats (updated versions maybe), but the number is still impressive.
Originally Posted by Tim S Unless there are known compatibility issues, you should be able to run any 32-bit app under Vista 64-bit in hybrid mode.
Watch it though, I tried norton, mcafee, AVG, and trend 32bit AV's (All free of course) before I gave up and bought Kaspersky 64
As to the browser crashing out, I found it's better just to use the 32bit IE since everything is compatible with that and 64bit IE has so many issues.
And creative is the devil, my sound will work fine usually but then sometimes it sounds like i'm talking through a fan when I'm on Ventrillo, or the sound will just become white noise...really loud white noise. A reboot is the only thing that'll fix it. but hey, i got 4gb and it's 64bit XP, so it loads up in about 15s :)
As to the browser crashing out, I found it's better just to use the 32bit IE since everything is compatible with that and 64bit IE has so many issues.
no, no, no. it's not the browser crashing out, it's ANYTHING that needed internet (strangely enough, online activation worked fine) firefox, IE7, Steam all crashed upon launch
Originally Posted by Mister_X I am still reluctant to install my X-Fi card again due the sheer amount of aggravation creative has caused me trying to get it to work properly.
Hmmm, am I in for a 'mare then, I just installed Vista64 along with my X-fi, on the surface all seems fine, i am still fine tuning the install though and have not played any games yet.
You might strike it lucky, but the period where i did have it working the sound quality was noticibly lower than when running the same card in XP Due i believe to the Vista drivers not supporting many of the fancy features of the card, apart from that I would get tons of popping and inerference like noise as if you have a really dodgy connection in one of your cables. The forums are full of people with the same issues. Its annoying because when its working ( on XP at least) It really is one of the best soundcards I've ever heard. Creative might well have sorted things out by now, Its been a good 4 months at least since i gave up. If anyone else can comment on X-Fi and Vista 64 success please PM me ! ( had enough of the distinctly mediocre on board sound I'm using at present but at least it worked with vista from day one)
See, you say CS3 works with 64-bit but when I run it under Vista Ultimate 64 it appears to list itself in task manager as a 32-bit application.
I've actually yet to see a 64-bit app (actually ANYTHING that I've installed so far) that didn't install to the "Program files (x86)" and run as a 32 bit app according to task manager :/
Thats intresting. Alot of it was more like history and having to find the benefits in but was a good read. Ive posted a link to it on another forum im a regular on to see if anyone else is intrested.
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There's a lot of ignorance surrounding x86-64 and there are actually more applications than you would think... Everything from Antivirus, to firewalls, to WinRAR/7-zip, to VirtualDub/Xvid, to Firefox, to a fairly decent list of games all with 64-bit versions. I could go on...
There's a good list here: http://www.neowin.net/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t330290.html
The glaring omission from that list is Adobe Photoshop CS3, which also has x86-64 extensions.
To say that there is nobody coding for 64-bit is short sighted. Games are crashing like flies because they're running out of memory (they're hitting the 2GB application limit in 32-bit), so it's no surprise that developers are starting to include 64-bit executables.
Ah, but *I* included it in *my* list ;)
And as for your comment, completemadness, there's lots of reasons that the OS alone having ability to handle 64bit is important.
yep, was reading the STALKER crash on running out of 2GB memory about 5mins ago.
if i were to use 64bit, can i still use my 32bit antivirus? (Nod32) i really like the idea of 64bit, and 50% performance increase in Crysis with a quad core, but after my incident with Vista 64bit flipping out, i am weary to install it again.
off topic: are there any GOOD partition tools for Vista? Norton partition Magic don't work in Vista anymore. i want to dual boot 32bit and 64bit.
Unless there are known compatibility issues, you should be able to run any 32-bit app under Vista 64-bit in hybrid mode.
Poops...
Ahh well. Buying vista ultimate OEM twice is still cheaper than buying it retail :p
I only use my PC for games, making websites, watching videos, listening to music and browsing the net so I may make the change at some point. It will be quite a swift process too as I store everything I want to keep mirrored on an external hard drive anyway. So just wipe the internal drive and re-install as 64 bit.
Has anyone used Flash CS3 on 64 bit per-chance? I know that has some serious bugs on vista 32 bit. I can't even begin to wonder how messed up it must be on 64 bit.
You wrote it yourself in the article - without the OS, driver (hardware), and application (software) support, it won't be able to take advantage of the 64-bit anyways. (Recompile, re-write, or otherwise).
That would mean that "did the next generation of processors really needed to support 64-bit computing on the desktop front?" Considering that people are still using XP (so much that OEM had to revert back to offering it), I would think that the answer is no. In fact, most of the hardware changes that were implemented in the Opteron (and subsequently Athlon 64) came from the defunct API EV6/EV7 platform. Most people I have met and talked with still think that 2 GB of RAM is plenty sufficient (with maybe the exception of Vista, but Vista's an odd-ball anyways).
When I attended the AMD Tech Tour conference in Toronto in 2004, that was one of the questions that I posed to one of the engineers on site. And the net conclusion from that discussion was that what IS different about current 64-bit offerings is that for people who can actually utilize (need) the 64-bit memory addressing capabilities, it doesn't cost them $30k for a UNIX workstation. THAT is the most fundamental difference - which is driven by memory (addressing/usage) needs, supported by hardware and software. (i.e. if you don't need more than 3 GB, 32-bit is fine - which is still the case for the consumer desktop market).
He also mentioned the ability for a 64 bit OS to double up on some 32 bit code to get a speed increase without actually having to have 64 bit applications
My experience in the past with XP 32/64 was that the latter ran everything I threw at it about 15% faster and I'm talking 32 bit programs here :)
64 bit vista is to me at least a clear choice, so long as you have a good reason to pick up vista in the first place.
the key you get is for 32 or 64 on vista (just that you only get the 32 bit disk or the 64bit disk) if you can get an 64bit disk (download it) the key will work, i know this due to one of my customers buying vista 32 OEM and Vista 64 OEM and we used the 32 key on 64 no problems, unlike XP the keys are interchangable between 32 and 64 disk
Watch it though, I tried norton, mcafee, AVG, and trend 32bit AV's (All free of course) before I gave up and bought Kaspersky 64
As to the browser crashing out, I found it's better just to use the 32bit IE since everything is compatible with that and 64bit IE has so many issues.
And creative is the devil, my sound will work fine usually but then sometimes it sounds like i'm talking through a fan when I'm on Ventrillo, or the sound will just become white noise...really loud white noise. A reboot is the only thing that'll fix it. but hey, i got 4gb and it's 64bit XP, so it loads up in about 15s :)
no, no, no. it's not the browser crashing out, it's ANYTHING that needed internet (strangely enough, online activation worked fine) firefox, IE7, Steam all crashed upon launch
Hmmm, am I in for a 'mare then, I just installed Vista64 along with my X-fi, on the surface all seems fine, i am still fine tuning the install though and have not played any games yet.
I've actually yet to see a 64-bit app (actually ANYTHING that I've installed so far) that didn't install to the "Program files (x86)" and run as a 32 bit app according to task manager :/
now what?
You know the ones