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Interfaces, metaphors & multi-touch

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DreamTheEndless 28th August 2006, 14:39 Quote
1st, a nice companion to this article is "In The Beginning Was The Command Line" by Neal Stephenson.

Second - If voice recognition is in its infancy, and I agree with you that you can't say it has progressed beyond that, that's an infant with some serious developmental disabilities.... I mean seriously - what is it - a ten or fifteen year old infant? That's just depressing.

:D
Ramble 28th August 2006, 15:04 Quote
Interesting article.
I'll still stick with my keyboard and mouse. They may be useless for 3D manipulation, but for 2D they rock.

3D desktops are hard for the novice to understand anyway.
Spacecowboy92 28th August 2006, 16:42 Quote
I used a iBar interface once, atleast I think it was. It was at a chocolate museum in Germany on the Rhine if I rember. The only thing with having a projector projecting from behing you is that you have to stand to the side of the display to read whats on the screen.
DarkReaper 28th August 2006, 16:51 Quote
A trackball thing would be the perfect extra control for source forts - the problem would be moving your hand from keyboard to ball and back. Great article with some very interesting insights
Votey 28th August 2006, 17:47 Quote
I had a PC game controller years ago called the Space Orb, I think. It had a ball on it that allowed for 6 degree movement. It could be pushed, pulled, lifted, depressed, turned, twisted, tilted, etc. I don't have it anymore, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't $500.
http://www.mindflux.com.au/products/spacetec/sorb360.html

Also, WoW != Warcraft 3.
Sea Shadow 28th August 2006, 18:26 Quote
Some of Jeffs other work is very interesting too. Such as this multi touch LED array.


*random tidbit of the day* in Minority Report they used a gestural-recognition interface developed by John Underkoffler while at MIT.
link
g3n3tiX 28th August 2006, 18:41 Quote
Or we could investigate getting an extra hand, so we could use that trackball...
Cheap Mod Wannabe 28th August 2006, 19:27 Quote
Voice Recognition is great in Wnidows Vista... so what. You need to have silent environment, or else all the efforts become useless.

You'd need voice recognition that would listen to the specific user. And that is so far out into the future.
DarkReaper 28th August 2006, 19:36 Quote
it's possible to use a combination of two microphones on a beam arrangement and some software to effectively get a directional mike. Not perfect but still a useful external noise filter
Flibblebot 28th August 2006, 19:50 Quote
I'm not convinced the iBar (crap name, btw) is a touchscreen. If you watch the video, you can see patches of light where people's arms cross the bar without touching it. Kind of looks more like a series of sensors above the bar rather than a touch screen (having worked in bars, and knowing how messy and sticky they get by the end of the night, I'm not sure a touchscreen would work that long anyway!)

The Jeff Han stuff was way cool, the cynic in me says that I don't think it'll ever become mainstream though...
Kipman725 28th August 2006, 19:56 Quote
command line is still the fastest if you can be bothered to learn how to use it.
quack 28th August 2006, 20:15 Quote
Bob isn't dead, he's alive and well in Windows XP as the default animated character (now called Rover) in Search... which thankfully you can turn off.
EK-MDi 28th August 2006, 20:21 Quote
I quite like the interface shown in Jeff's demonstration. It seems almost perfect for any usage, as it's like controlling paper. Much more intuitive and flexibly manageable than a mouse & keyboard; for 2D, and 3D!
yahooadam 28th August 2006, 20:29 Quote
very interesting article, maybe we will have a UI like in minority report some day soon

also, there is a big typo in this article ;)
Quote:
as this WoW demonstration shows
It is a Warcraft 3 Demo, not a World Of Warcraft demo ;) (this was pointed out above also it seems)
Nexxo 28th August 2006, 20:32 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Votey
I had a PC game controller years ago called the Space Orb, I think. It had a ball on it that allowed for 6 degree movement. It could be pushed, pulled, lifted, depressed, turned, twisted, tilted, etc. I don't have it anymore, but I'm pretty sure it wasn't $500.
http://www.mindflux.com.au/products/spacetec/sorb360.html

Also, WoW != Warcraft 3.
More like about $30,--. At one point PC World in the UK was giving them away as a freebie with the game "Forsaken" (remember that one? It was a "Descent" clone) with which it worked rather well. I got one then.

Drivers were never developed for Windows XP because it was discontinued before then, but it soon gathered a cult following and some enterprising geeks programmed their own. They work quite well and I use the SpaceOrb for Quake and UT2003 .
CollinstheClown 28th August 2006, 20:36 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by the article, page 3
Sure, you can stick a few files on the desktop, or put them in folders - but all Desktop style OS’ tag extras into the metaphor. Think about it this way. To access your files in Windows you have to go through My Computer which sits on your desktop.
Few mistakes I saw.

This is a very good article, I learned from it. Not only could these multitouchscreens be used for computers and such, think about a new wave in musical instruments!




-CollinstheClown
DreamTheEndless 28th August 2006, 21:00 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kipman725
command line is still the fastest if you can be bothered to learn how to use it.

Yeah, for some stuff -
but at the same time shortcut keys are pretty damn fast if you can be bothered to learn how to use them.

For instance - Let's you and I both start in our starting point - you at c:\ and me on a windows desktop - and we both delete a file in the default location for files on a windows XP computer: "My Documents" (C:\Documents and Settings\username\My Documents\)

We will both delete a file called "trash.bmp" I hit tab once to get to "My Documents" - then hit enter. I then click on "trash.bmp" and hit shift+delete. Who's faster?

Don't get me wrong, the command line is mucho powerful for lots of stuff, but it's certainly not the "fastest" in many cases.

(At the same time, if I want to run word, excel, charmap, mspaint, cmd, etc... I do it by hitting windows key+r and just typing in the name of the app I want instead of clicking on the start menu etc... This is a hybrid between gui and cli - and this hybrid is much faster than either of the other two)
yahooadam 28th August 2006, 21:22 Quote
the command line can be faster for some things, but in general the GUI is more useful, however the command line is still used for many things
Wrigley1 28th August 2006, 22:38 Quote
Quote:
Think about it this. To access you files in Windows
:| :)

Great article.
neocyprinus 28th August 2006, 22:40 Quote
When thinking of a inovative way to use the "classic" desktop in a modern way the following innovation comes to mind. I think with the proper developement this might be a winner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0ODskdEPnQ

Edit: just a thought, combine this with a Wiimote like controler
OtakuHawk 29th August 2006, 00:07 Quote
that demo with multi-touch was warcraft 3, not WoW.

I don't play either of them.
yahooadam 29th August 2006, 00:47 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by neocyprinus
When thinking of a inovative way to use the "classic" desktop in a modern way the following innovation comes to mind. I think with the proper development this might be a winner.
this was mentioned in the article

however, that video has been around for a while, and if u think about it in practical terms it just seems like a gimmick
metarinka 29th August 2006, 01:12 Quote
good article, I saw that multi-touch screen video before and I had been wondering about it, along with other new imput devices and how usefull they would be in my dabblings with cad and such.

the thing is with complexity you can get more utility. The simple analogy would be say a musical instrument, I played tuba for many years and all the student models tend to have 3 keys, while performance instruments tend to be 5-6 keys. With every increase in key count the imputs become more complex but the utility goes up. This doesn't mean the more complex an interface automatically the faster or better utilized it just has the propensity and it looses it's level of intuition. Likewise if you take programs like say sketch up and inventor, Sketch up on the surface is more intuitive and straight forward but lacks on the utility side. Once you start memorizing and learning the complexity of invetor's tool's you can do such things as find internal volume of objects make moving parts etc. this holds true for all sorts of software from cad and mediea creation programs, down to GUi interface menu's where old school people prefer hot key's and CLI and your grandma wants to just hit the giant blue E.

I think we are at a crossroads, professionals and gamers want more utility, and the average user wants more intuition. They aren't nessicarily opposing factions, I'm particularily interested in that multi touch screen and accompaning Gui. In say photo shop you could have more intuitive handstrokes and gesture summon various tools and use the simplicity to pan and zoom a photo while you work on it, instead of a current system of obscure key strokes (ala ctrl+a thru ctrl+z having a different function). Likewise getting grandma to poke the blue E or sort through her photo's doesn't sound that hard on this interface.

It will be interesting to see how this all pans out, below the instant mind readers and such (anyone remember those demo's that read the nerve impulses in your hand to choose left or right?) I could see the minority report level, but more like a virtual cube where you could gesture in true 3d, that way say rotating a model and zooming would be as analogous as having the item in your hand.
yahooadam 29th August 2006, 02:12 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by metarinka
I could see the minority report level, but more like a virtual cube where you could gesture in true 3d, that way say rotating a model and zooming would be as analogous as having the item in your hand.
at first, that might be true, but then further in the future we could end up with a minority report style interface

something like where you control where atoms are, then you can make a UI wherever you want
Reaper_Unreal 29th August 2006, 02:47 Quote
I thought I should say something about a recent display I've been exposed to. I dont' know the product name, but it's made by Jester Tech, an Ottawa company. It projects onto the back of a piece of glass and you touch the front of the glass to control it. It has two cameras with mirrors and special lenses that peer out over the front of the glass. Using some trigonometry, it can determine where you're trying to push on the glass. The current system can detect up to 10 presses, however sometimes they'll overlapp, and things get complicated. It's not perfect, but it's really cool, and is cuirrently being used to give interactive storefront displays.

Great article btw. I had a Spaceball back in the day, but it used an ADB connection (ADB = Apple Desktop Bus). :(
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