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IPTV decoded

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Mr. Tinker 2nd May 2006, 14:20 Quote
Hey! Great article - very enlightening.
Bindibadgi 2nd May 2006, 14:26 Quote
Just for everyone: If you dont like BSplayer either (it's my player of choice mind), .264 stuff can be played well in media player classic and vlc player. Or, there's zoom player as the "direct competitor" to BSplayer.
Herbicide 2nd May 2006, 14:46 Quote
Nice informative article.

I know what I'm going to be doing for (quite) a while...

- H.
DaSuperFly 2nd May 2006, 14:55 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindibadgi
.264 stuff can be played well in media player classic and vlc player.
I believe that if we do recieve an alien transmission, VLC will be used to play it. After all it can play anything right?
Herbicide 2nd May 2006, 15:05 Quote
That or foobar.

- H.
Bindibadgi 2nd May 2006, 15:07 Quote
Yea, pretty much. Even subbed stuff. Im sure the US and other countries use it to decode their, uh, alien transmissions as you say.

I really really like the idea of IPTV. The BBC are trailing it to merely 1000 people in this country, which is crap because I want BBC IPTV NOW. I also want to turn on my TV, scroll through my pre-downloaded programs that Ive setup to record entire series as they arrive and pay for on a per-episode basis. No extra channels, no extra crap, simply and completely what I want to watch when I have time to watch it in any order I fancy watching it. THAT is the beauty of torrents. If these companies could get over themselves and their obsession with DRM maybe we'll be able to have proper, simple set-top boxes where we can choose to have only exactly the shows we want.
Pay for with or without adverts over the net, subscribe to a series, put in your IP/settop box password and you're able to watch them 3 times before they delete themselves. Things get downloaded via torrents on locked servers, and you can set it to be as fast/slow as you want.

Simple and completely effect and enabling. The settop boxes can have a huge harddisk and a DVDRW. These companies should employ the people who stick the HDTV+AC3 torrents on the net: getting a good quality HDTV rip on the net in just 650meg is genius and an infininately crucial part these companies seem to completely lack at doing.
stephen2002 2nd May 2006, 15:18 Quote
I'll wait until they stop using 320x240 resolution with heavy compression. I would much rather wait for a higher quality version to download than watch instant streaming fuzz. The people doing the torrents of shows have the right idea and are using higher qualities. I've been spoiled by OTA HD :D
Hiren 2nd May 2006, 15:44 Quote
Why did your round up not include French Maid TV? :|

http://www.frenchmaidtv.com/
Hamish 2nd May 2006, 16:07 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindibadgi
Or, there's zoom player as the "direct competitor" to BSplayer.
hell yea, zoomplayer rocks :D

zoomplayer + ffdshow + ac3filter + any relevant splitters you need
always worked for me :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindibadgi
These companies should employ the people who stick the HDTV+AC3 torrents on the net: getting a good quality HDTV rip on the net in just 650meg is genius and an infininately crucial part these companies seem to completely lack at doing.

and they do it incredibly fast
felix the cat 2nd May 2006, 17:41 Quote
nice read will + kudos for "the revolution will not be televised"! ...great tune! and on that note, fires up winamp
BioSniper 2nd May 2006, 17:44 Quote
My gripe with the ABC streams:
They are windowed only, you cannot full screen though you can switch between high and low res versions..
I would try the AOL ones but that means installing WM10 and I refuse to do that :p

Anyone know of any other player software (im too lazy to really look), Ive taken a look at democracy which is all well and good but there isnt really any proper settings for it (like a download directory path or bandwidth limitation) and I really dislike the Itunes software.
Any help is appreciated
Anakha 2nd May 2006, 19:44 Quote
Personally, I already have a MythTV box here that's used to record regular programming.

Why is this important, in an IPTV sense? Because I also installed TorrentFlux on the box, and have that set to download streams from UKNova (Which is legal, as long as you pay a UK TV License - They only do broadcast programming, and nothing that's released on DVD) into Myth's "Videos" directory.

However, this isn't IPTV in the strict sense of the phrase.

IPTV is (Usually) RTP (Or RSTP) UDP Multicast streams, delivered over a fixed connection (Usually *DSL) like how HomeChoice in the UK, FreeBox in France, and SaskTel in Canada deliver.

Usually, this requires a set-top box, but using the (Ever-capable) VLC player, you can receive the SAP/SDP "Announcements" coming over your DSL line, and tune-in to the UDP streams in exactly the same way Set-Top-Boxes do.

And yes, I'm pushing to get this functionality in Myth too. :)
Firehed 2nd May 2006, 21:02 Quote
I noticed a couple little vague inaccuracies in the first two pages (something about WMP, and iPods can use mpeg in addition to .264), but overall it's very enlightening. I've got myself some more content for my god-awful stats class
zachjowi 2nd May 2006, 21:10 Quote
is it legal to download recorded shows like 24 from torrents?
Anakha 2nd May 2006, 21:18 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by zachjowi
is it legal to download recorded shows like 24 from torrents?
That's a difficult one. In Thoery, if you have the capability to watch the show normally (albeit CableTV or Satellite) then you should be legal to download it and watch it (Under "Fair Use", with the same kind of legal standpoint as recording and watching on a regular VCR). This has not been tested from any kind of legal standpoint, however, and is extremely shaky ground.

And, of course, IANAL, so this is only my £0.02-worth. No warranty is implied, E&OE, offer void where prohibited, the judge's decision is final, available while stock last.
DriftCarl 2nd May 2006, 23:08 Quote
I would gladly watch TV shows with commercials(localised content) in them if they were available at full speed download and decent torrent type quality. Unfortunatly there is nothing out there like this at the moment. Sure I could get up to my PC and just move the slider past the adverts, but I can also get up and make a cup of tea when watching normal TV.

These companies are shooting themselves in the foot a bit by embrasing IPTV, and then trying to restrict and control it in an unnatural way. Ive watched all of the scrubs shows up to date(love that show) I would watch it on ABC1 on freeview but all they do is show repeats of damn season 1 every day when its nearing the end of season 5 in the real world. Why cant they just show the next ones too.

I watch lost on torrents because UK is atleast 6 months behind america and with the international community closer than ever on the internet, I hate americans accidently telling stuff about the show that I havnt seen yet.
szlater 4th May 2006, 17:55 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anakha
That's a difficult one. In Thoery, if you have the capability to watch the show normally (albeit CableTV or Satellite) then you should be legal to download it and watch it (Under "Fair Use", with the same kind of legal standpoint as recording and watching on a regular VCR). This has not been tested from any kind of legal standpoint, however, and is extremely shaky ground.

And, of course, IANAL, so this is only my £0.02-worth. No warranty is implied, E&OE, offer void where prohibited, the judge's decision is final, available while stock last.

Going to have to disagree with you there, on one major point.

When you download using a torrent you're not merely downloading the file, you're uploading (distributing) it too. Unauthorised distribution has always been excluded from 'fair use' or any other justification.

I would also be wary of relying on the defence of 'fair use' as I believe that is derived from the 1st Ammendment in the US and therefore not applicable in the UK. In the UK (and I beleive Canada, Australia and New Zealand) the closest thing to 'Fair use' is 'Fair Dealing' and this relates to the criticism, parody and review of copyrighted materials. It gives you no right to record, view or distribute copyright materials without the authorisation of the copyright holder.
Bindibadgi 4th May 2006, 18:00 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by zachjowi
is it legal to download recorded shows like 24 from torrents?

No. No adverts and it's uncontrolled by the owners so they dont like it. If it has DRM it's legal, basically, unless it explicitly says otherwise.

But then again, it's going to be on C4/E4 eventually so does it really matter, is my opinion.
szlater 4th May 2006, 18:12 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindibadgi
No. No adverts and it's uncontrolled by the owners so they dont like it. If it has DRM it's legal, basically, unless it explicitly says otherwise.

Err...not quite.

If you don't have the express permission of the copyright holder, it is illegal to view or distribute their material.

Whether the file has DRM or not has no bearing on the legality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindibadgi
But then again, it's going to be on C4/E4 eventually so does it really matter, is my opinion.

That's the answer to a whole other question (one that I'm more inclined to agree with you on).
Anakha 4th May 2006, 18:32 Quote
Well, I'm talking from a Canadian standpoint here, as in Canada P2P Filesharing has been fould legal.

In the UK, however, this would fall under "Fair Dealing", which can be summed up thusly:
Quote:
Originally Posted by JISC Legal

A. Fair Dealing

This applies particularly, but not exclusively, to the restricted act of copying. There is no precise definition and interpretation is ultimately made by the courts. However, it essentially allows limited copying without permission provided it is fair and the commercial interests of the rights holder are not damaged. 4 Fair Dealing applies principally to literary, artistic, dramatic and musical works. For films, sound recordings, computer software etc. it may apply in more limited circumstances.
(Full article here)

Now, as you are not copying for profit, and are not interefering with the original broadcaster's commercial interests (Preventing them making a profit from the broadcast), you shouldn't be in so much trouble, provided it is only broadcast content you are sending.
szlater 4th May 2006, 19:01 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anakha
Well, I'm talking from a Canadian standpoint here, as in Canada P2P Filesharing has been fould legal.

So I see
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anakha

In the UK, however, this would fall under "Fair Dealing", which can be summed up thusly:


(Full article here)

Now, as you are not copying for profit, and are not interefering with the original broadcaster's commercial interests (Preventing them making a profit from the broadcast), you shouldn't be in so much trouble, provided it is only broadcast content you are sending.


Well, further down that article the actual conditions of fair dealing (which is a defence and not a right) are explained.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JISC Legal

The principal purposes for which the Fair Dealing defence may be used are:
  • Research and Private Study. Note that many commentators feel these two should be separated. It excludes sound recordings and films in both cases.
  • Criticism and Review.
  • News Reporting. Photographs are excluded from this.

emphasis mine

So, I don't agree that P2P downloading is protected by 'fair dealing', and I don't think that that argument would hold up at all.
Anakha 4th May 2006, 20:05 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by szlater
Well, further down that article the actual conditions of fair dealing (which is a defence and not a right) are explained.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JISC Legal

The principal purposes for which the Fair Dealing defence may be used are:

* Research and Private Study. Note that many commentators feel these two should be separated. It excludes sound recordings and films in both cases.
* Criticism and Review.
* News Reporting. Photographs are excluded from this.

emphasis mine
So, I don't agree that P2P downloading is protected by 'fair dealing', and I don't think that that argument would hold up at all.
The question then becomes if a "Broadcast work" (A TV show, as we are talking about that in this instance) is considered a "Film", and if, by public transmission of said work, the copyright-holders are waiving their right to control distribution (As they have placed the work in the public domain, and no modification of the work is involved).
szlater 4th May 2006, 21:01 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anakha
The question then becomes if a "Broadcast work" (A TV show, as we are talking about that in this instance) is considered a "Film", and if, by public transmission of said work, the copyright-holders are waiving their right to control distribution (As they have placed the work in the public domain, and no modification of the work is involved).

I don't see how you can back up this argument.

The copyright of books, music nor pictures lapses when they are published (in any format) so why should this be the case for film?

It's much more logical to conclude that 'Broadcast works' are transmitted under licence, where in the copyright holder (either broadcaster or production house) retains all rights to a work, but allows those able to receive the broadcast limited rights to view (or record for later viewing).

P2P falls under distribution, and the copyright holder does not licence the redistribution of it's IP.

If a 'broadcast work' lapsed into the public domain on broadcast, it would undermine the actual point of copyright in the first place, in that by granting holders sole rights to benefit from their IP encourages them to continue producing works.

You could argue that the protections afforded copyright holders are too extreme, and that the period of exclusive copyright is too long and that this is detrimental to society. I wouldn't argue against that. But, as it stands there really is no legal justification that I'm aware of for P2P in the UK.

What we need is a test case to come before the courts (just as in Canada, where it seems your judges have their heads screwed on right), but the odds at present are too heavily stacked in favour of the media cartels and their pockets are too deep for a private individual to take on in this manner.
djDEATH 5th May 2006, 12:17 Quote
seriously, who gives a flying whatever....

there are 6 odd billion people in the world, and only one kiefer sutherland. The show is broadcast on tv and can be recorded by any standard VCR or TiVO or PVR or whatever, and then you can take the tape round ya mates house and watch it again. This was the case 20 years ago, same as it is now - legal or not; you own the VCR, and you BOUGHT the video tape, who cares?

I am well up for breaking the system, as are THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of people every minute of every day - an episode of 24 comes down in less than an hour on my broadband conneciton, and at any time, there are thousands (5000+) seeds - so arguable, maybe 3000 people an hour download it, arent the jails full enough?

My weekely torrent downloads:

24, lost, southpark, trailer park boys, scrubs, malcolm in th middle, family guy, simpsons. THe best thing is, i now enjoy watching tv more than ever when i had an actual TV, now its just my six year old latitude, and its awesome - no adverts, no big brother, no ******** morning tv, and if i need a pee, i hit the SPAVCEBAR in Mplayer, and i can go for a pee and i dont miss anything. Real world cause and effect.

This kinda reminds me of a film i watched a while back, PIRATES of SILCONE VALLEY. About the whole Steve Jobs/Bill Gates fiasco in the 80s 90s, Apple, it seemed, was formed by Jobs after a successful spate of illegal phone line tapping, granting free international calls and selling this service. This man went on to become the man he is today, hell bent on DRM and freedom restricting substandard digital music players, so are we all criminals, or are we part of this revoilution we all hear about. You cannot, and they will not imprison thousands if not millions for watching tv programmes downloaded from torrent sites, this is the nature of the internet. Its OUR internet, and they cant take it from us.

The thing is, its not EASY as such, your average person gets RIPPED off with the advent of new technoogy because they have no idea what they're paying for, or how easily these measures can be circumvented. As a result, these IPTV servces will take off eventually, but sadly DRM will most likely play the key role in the networks aloowing it, and OUT-OF-THE-BOX functionality for Mr and Mrs Smith. Further to this, DRM completely sideleines the open source moevement, as explained in nearly all tech news roundups on the internet, (see here for a comprehemnsive epxlaination of why http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=24638)

i am never gonna fork out for VIIV, DRM enabled MP3s or anyhting that restricts my freedom as a human being to freely use the technology in front of me.

The fact is the law doesnt understand the ins and outs of how the technology works, come to think of it, neither does any one person in the world, so how can this be regulated? if at all? has ANYONE received a fine for downloading 24 and watching it, and enjoying it? pls let me know , im interested to hear - no? oh yeah thats right - nobody cares - lets spend more money educating people to not be racist and to treat each other with more respect, and get kids off the streets - without the people who are 'responsible' for the use of technology in this way, we will never get to the moon or cure world hunger or anyhtign else, we are the future, and the corporations can suck my balls.

MY $0.02

DEATH

btw - more weekly rantings available on my weekly DRUM AND BASS radio show, www.live.theshedcrew.com wednesday nights UK time 8pm-11pm.
MiT 9th May 2006, 14:49 Quote
Great article.
Some very intresting comments.
Learnt something new today.

"Keep um coming"

I like the idea of IPTV. Currently i always miss an epsiode of "24", so instead i wait untill the season is out on DVD then watch it. So am always one season behind!!!
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