I have never bought a computer in my life. Bought a BUNCH of parts, but never a computer.
I just *gasp* purchased a copy of XP with my latest upgrade last week. I still don't really *want* to be using XP either. It's just this one thing....
Battlefield2 :'(
I know, I know... Cedega, and I guess now that I don't have weedy hardware anymore, it would probabbly run ok.
I've managed to get away from Microsoft products for the most part in my home. Really, the only windows boxes I have are my gaming box and my work laptop (not my choice). My Mythbox is about to be re-installed with gentoo (fc didn't feel right to me), my laptop is gentoo, my router / firewall is openbsd and my fileserver / test box waiting for the new mobo to go in will probabbly be solaris. Linux, as a computing platform, is getting quite mature and I'm glad to see it happen. Yes, there's a learning curve to using unix, but for some people, the effort is well worth it. There's a reason that Big Corporations and Banks and Governments use unix for the heavy lifting (well... besides the venerable mainframe).
Now that free software is catching up (or has caught up and surpassed) to commercial software, emphasis is shifting to polish. User interfaces NEED to improve, but it's a lot easier to do with a solid foundation.
As for drivers and hardware support, I really just don't see that as an issue anymore. Perhaps I've been a linux hippie for too long, but I consider drivers and community support to be almost as important for a purchasing decision as performance. This is exactly why every videocard in my house is nvidia... it's just one more criterion to judge vendors by.
I know I don't speak for joe average user, but I can say that I've been using free (beer and speech) alternatives for quite a while, and would be lost without them. The generosity of some of the greatest programmers in the world will never end commercial software, however. There has been and always will be companies that are able to make a better / faster / slicker / better marketed widget, and I'm glad that they are there. Commercial software and the responsibility for "merchantability" and "fitness of purpose" are things that no community effort can muster. You won't see an open source nuclear reactor control system. You won't see an open source missle guidance system. The competition that free software provides keeps the folks in Redmond (and at IBM and at Oracle and at Sun ...) honest and pricing in line. They will need to continue to innovate.
And I guess, in the end, innovation is what I'm most interested in. Having more developers and more choices just makes the available gene pool a little deeper. That's better for all of us, including Pete the Pirate.
The article started out with saying your hard drive was formatted and now you have to be 100% legal. If this were true world wide and MS or Adobe or whoever would be guaranteed that the only copy of their software in use was a purchased one.... would the pricing then be more reasonable? There are a bunch of programs I would like to play around with. Unless there is a demo this will never happen as I can't afford their prices to try out something to see if it want to use it or not. So I make do without (I make a serious effort to stay legit).
It's always been an arguement that those who are buying software are paying for the copies that weren't purchased thus the higher prices. On the other hand, another arguement is that most of the "stolen" copies are used by someone who wouldn't buy it at any price. I don't know which (if either) are truely accurate but both have valid viewpoints.
How about unbundling? Or selling feature sets? I use Word, Excel and sometimes Access and Powerpoint. I could see buying word and excel and renting access and powerpoint for the few times I need them. How about a lite vs full version? In Word I use about 10-15% of the features on a regular basis and I don't think I have ever used more then 25% of what's in there. Give me a lite version and a full version. They keep cramming more and more in there and I use (proportionately) less and less. Don't make me buy office if all I want is one app. Back in the 90's I sold a lot of Mac stuff and MS offered apps on their own or in office. Customers wanted Word and Excel. It was cheaper to buy office and get Powerpoint and whatever else was in there too instead of just buying the two apps on their own. How about offering each Office app for $99 by itself or say $325 for Word, Excel, Powerpoint, Access bundle. Then if all I need is one or two apps that all I need to buy and I save some money and MS still gets a sale.
There are a whole variety of different options to offer the consumer what is a better value to them and still allows companies to recoup their R&D and support costs but I don't know what it will take to make this shift. Or if other consumers would even want any of these other models (unbundling, more lite versions, renting, base app and then pay more to activate features, etc.)
Another option I did not see offered in the original article is ebay and used/old stuff. If you don't need to run FEAR or any of the newest stuff you can probably get by with an older PC, older video, etc. These old parts can be quite cheap on the used market. The same is true of software. Some of the games I want to play I'll wait a year or two until everybody is selling it on ebay and then pick them up used for $5 - $10 rather then $35 - $50 new. Do you need office 2003? Would office 97 or 2000 work for you? Will you use the newest Photoshop features? or will a version (or 2 or 3) back be sufficient? And in some cases it's cheaper to pickup an old version for $20 bucks and then buy the upgrade to the newest verison. It's really a case of self control. If you need/want the latest then you will pay for it. If not then you can save quite a bit of money.
Originally Posted by DriftCarl I think the MAJOR problem left with people stuck using windows is games. Home users buy PC's for games now rather than letters and stuff. PC's really are much better gaming machines than Xboxes or playstations. And the reason why my main PC is XP is simply because the games I play wont work on linux or mac.
Just install Debian. It has lots of games, many of which are very good. All for free, along with many other free programs.
One more reason to use Linux is its smarter memory management. It will only use swap when it runs out of RAM. Windows, however, will use some swap even if most of RAM is unused. As a result, Linux tends to be faster than Windows. Stability was an advantage of Linux, although there's less merit since the introduction of Windows 2000. The biggest advantage I see now is no need to worry about spyware.
Now let's discuss legal alternatives to pirating music, movies, and cable TV!
On the Windows OEM issue - you can buy them without hassle from most online stores. I think ebuyer require you do buy hardware (but that has been a mouse for £1 before) other well know overclocking stores have shipped me oem licences on their own without hassle. AS for the licence terms, we all build our own PCs here so OEM it is surely. Moreover the chance of MS going and getting heavy with people here who actually buy licences for their OS seems remote now doesn't it.
On software alternatives, I bet a lot of photoshop downloaders hardly need the package. Its a bit heavy for a quick crop, balance and resize isn't it!
Originally Posted by Risky AS for the licence terms, we all build our own PCs here so OEM it is surely. Moreover the chance of MS going and getting heavy with people here who actually buy licences for their OS seems remote now doesn't it.
But there are still rules on those OEM licenses. New motherboard == new OEM license. Have you bought new licenses for Windows/Office any other MS software that you've bought OEM each time you've replaced your mobo?
The fact that the odds of being caught might be slim doesn't make it any less illegal.
I wasn't certain that was true, but I'll take your word for it.
However my point is that Microsoft are in every position to 'catch' you with the activation business, but clearly they are choosign not to as it would not be that smart to hit out on customer who are bending the rules but still actually buying off them, as oppose to those who are ripping them off completely.
I'll asume your OS are all licenced within the terms, but I'm tired of others saying they "have" to pirate windows as it costs £230 (XP Pro Retail) when they've just built the PC thus OEM eligible and they only probably mostly only need Home in any case -thus £60.
Originally Posted by star882 The biggest advantage I see now is no need to worry about spyware.
i don't agree...since the problem of spyware is the user that let applications install them, the problem is for the average user on windows and also on linux.
the user follows the instructions and install, if he doesn't know what is doing the program could do whatever...it's the same for me.
and yes, there aren't spyware for linux.........yet.
Originally Posted by lepre i don't agree...since the problem of spyware is the user that let applications install them, the problem is for the average user on windows and also on linux.
the user follows the instructions and install, if he doesn't know what is doing the program could do whatever...it's the same for me.
and yes, there aren't spyware for linux.........yet.
most people who install spyware and stuff deserve it half of the time due to stupidity and lack of common sence. :)
and to make spyware for linux is a hell lot harder to do than in windows along with the fact theres likely to only be 1 maybe 2 other people in the world with the same setup as you which will go on the same dodgy site as you :) so is relativley pointless... along with the whole linux concept?
Originally Posted by webbyman most people who install spyware and stuff deserve it half of the time due to stupidity and lack of common sence. :)
Thats unfair, alot of crap is installed without people knowing by ligitemate software which often trash windows FYI adobe and apple are also culprits
I hate PS, i had to wipe my hd because a legit copy trashed windows.
Gimp is much better and i can use its native file format on 2 pc's without wine or due boot.
The main games Quake 4 UT2K4 have company made ports but hardly anyone knows there there.
as to email i use outlook cus thunder bird doesn't work with hotmail.
office - OOo rules (this pc had star office which ive not got on with).
My current setup
main pc = XP, Firefox, gimp, desktop sidebar,PSPvideo9,paint.net and inkscape (svg program)
however pc 2 is full linux no duel boot or win.
as to email i use outlook cus thunder bird doesn't work with hotmail.
It can though they don't admit it, you need to get an extension called WebMail from http://webmail.mozdev.org/. Outlook makes my eyes hurt
I have been using Fedora for the last few days for a project and have been surprised by how much it angers me. Things like installing programs, doesn't work like you think it would and half the time the program disapears to some remote folder and you get no link to it anywhere. Bit better using YUM. Suppose after a bit more use I will get to like it more, I need to change the way it looks though as the standard setup is butt ugly.
A friend has suggested Xandros, he has started using it and is now nearly weaned off of windows! Anyone else use it? Verdict?
The new hotmail Beta is very nice, significant interface and loading time improvements in my eyes.
I agree with Chunky, Linux kinda annoys me aswell as there is very limited documentational support and its VERY hard for the devs to test something on every distro.
SO some very hard to come by tools I need for my Degree won't run on FC4 but will run on FC3, using exactly the same packages.
Outlook is a fairly nice client, outlook express even is clean enough. You haven't experienced a really awful mail client unless you've used Lotus Notes.
Lotus is a hellish package that should be destroyed, although my Sis works for Ernst Young and uses it as she can open over 30 different databases from it!
Originally Posted by Ryszvaldo Lotus is a hellish package that should be destroyed, although my Sis works for Ernst Young and uses it as she can open over 30 different databases from it!
don't call notes a database :P
it's insulting real db systems ;)
wow runs in cedaga fine from what i am told
also the apple query about how it bundles the software this is mainly a non issue because they are not seperate organisations
apple computers come with apple os you need the hardware to run the os this is quite a different package from requiring the oems to bundle the software exactly as it comes from ms only small areas were allowed to change so in this way they were using their hold on the software market to prevent oem companies from bundling something else
my method of licensing was through the action pack basically a multipack of licenses designed for small it companies with a variety of licenses its about 700au$ a year
then again important boxes of mine run *nix or linux because its needed and its what i consider secure
when you consider the documentation point of view looking at the majour LAMP components they are all very well documented with good support forums and most systems have companies that will support them
when it comes to my personal area of specialty wireless networking and security related to it the Free (as in speech) apps are THE best in the world there is not something that can compete with kismet and other apps that are nice to have when doing the work
while it is true OS stuff does have some ways to come on the desktop and it will get there. it already runs most of the internet and will probably continue running most of it
it runs all my servers except the exchange\mssql box i have to run for a stupid POS that doesnt like anything bar that combo >.<
on the desktop side nix\nux runs on my desktop dual booted my laptop the 3 other machines for the family and on my planed car cluster setup :)
also those who had the hotmail issues can i recommend another email provider :) gmail or even getting your own domain and just renting a shared server so much nicer and if you think before you act and get a good domain you will look a lot more professional in the future for job apps and the like
Originally Posted by tacticus also those who had the hotmail issues can i recommend another email provider :) gmail or even getting your own domain and just renting a shared server so much nicer and if you think before you act and get a good domain you will look a lot more professional in the future for job apps and the like
Sure I have a few domains of my own, and a gmail account but with the new mail.live.com it is the best webmail client I have used, and certainly better than the ropey efforts that will come with your hosting service. It's probably ok to use as an alternative to outlook express for some users.
From others *nix users - dont use FC series, the more its developed the more is broken.
From my experince any debian based system is best but mandriva is my os of choice.
As to documentation
1) have you installed it? there usually installed seperatly.
2) try writing some.
Good article, great threads!
The arguments for pirating software are feeble attempts to justify wrongdoing, which is something we see all too often today. If you like the licensed version more than a free alternative, pay for it.
I use Open Office, AVG Free, GIMP and several other free items. Most of the good free software have several support options. One is through donations, a second is to upgrade to a commercial version, and the last is to become part of the development team. If I get to the point where I'm successful in business using the free stuff, I intend to donate.
Thanks to the user who posted info on Blender and Inkscape. My son recently became interested in animation, and I have had little luck finding reputable freeware. These items look good, and we will play with them.
Regarding the XP license upgrade issue, I'm a little confused. I replaced a motherboard a year ago, and had to re-load. Had to call MS, and when I told them I had put in a new MB, they gave me an activation number.
Comments 76 to 94 of 94
ReplyI just *gasp* purchased a copy of XP with my latest upgrade last week. I still don't really *want* to be using XP either. It's just this one thing....
Battlefield2 :'(
I know, I know... Cedega, and I guess now that I don't have weedy hardware anymore, it would probabbly run ok.
I've managed to get away from Microsoft products for the most part in my home. Really, the only windows boxes I have are my gaming box and my work laptop (not my choice). My Mythbox is about to be re-installed with gentoo (fc didn't feel right to me), my laptop is gentoo, my router / firewall is openbsd and my fileserver / test box waiting for the new mobo to go in will probabbly be solaris. Linux, as a computing platform, is getting quite mature and I'm glad to see it happen. Yes, there's a learning curve to using unix, but for some people, the effort is well worth it. There's a reason that Big Corporations and Banks and Governments use unix for the heavy lifting (well... besides the venerable mainframe).
Now that free software is catching up (or has caught up and surpassed) to commercial software, emphasis is shifting to polish. User interfaces NEED to improve, but it's a lot easier to do with a solid foundation.
As for drivers and hardware support, I really just don't see that as an issue anymore. Perhaps I've been a linux hippie for too long, but I consider drivers and community support to be almost as important for a purchasing decision as performance. This is exactly why every videocard in my house is nvidia... it's just one more criterion to judge vendors by.
I know I don't speak for joe average user, but I can say that I've been using free (beer and speech) alternatives for quite a while, and would be lost without them. The generosity of some of the greatest programmers in the world will never end commercial software, however. There has been and always will be companies that are able to make a better / faster / slicker / better marketed widget, and I'm glad that they are there. Commercial software and the responsibility for "merchantability" and "fitness of purpose" are things that no community effort can muster. You won't see an open source nuclear reactor control system. You won't see an open source missle guidance system. The competition that free software provides keeps the folks in Redmond (and at IBM and at Oracle and at Sun ...) honest and pricing in line. They will need to continue to innovate.
And I guess, in the end, innovation is what I'm most interested in. Having more developers and more choices just makes the available gene pool a little deeper. That's better for all of us, including Pete the Pirate.
enough rambling for now
-q
It's always been an arguement that those who are buying software are paying for the copies that weren't purchased thus the higher prices. On the other hand, another arguement is that most of the "stolen" copies are used by someone who wouldn't buy it at any price. I don't know which (if either) are truely accurate but both have valid viewpoints.
How about unbundling? Or selling feature sets? I use Word, Excel and sometimes Access and Powerpoint. I could see buying word and excel and renting access and powerpoint for the few times I need them. How about a lite vs full version? In Word I use about 10-15% of the features on a regular basis and I don't think I have ever used more then 25% of what's in there. Give me a lite version and a full version. They keep cramming more and more in there and I use (proportionately) less and less. Don't make me buy office if all I want is one app. Back in the 90's I sold a lot of Mac stuff and MS offered apps on their own or in office. Customers wanted Word and Excel. It was cheaper to buy office and get Powerpoint and whatever else was in there too instead of just buying the two apps on their own. How about offering each Office app for $99 by itself or say $325 for Word, Excel, Powerpoint, Access bundle. Then if all I need is one or two apps that all I need to buy and I save some money and MS still gets a sale.
There are a whole variety of different options to offer the consumer what is a better value to them and still allows companies to recoup their R&D and support costs but I don't know what it will take to make this shift. Or if other consumers would even want any of these other models (unbundling, more lite versions, renting, base app and then pay more to activate features, etc.)
Another option I did not see offered in the original article is ebay and used/old stuff. If you don't need to run FEAR or any of the newest stuff you can probably get by with an older PC, older video, etc. These old parts can be quite cheap on the used market. The same is true of software. Some of the games I want to play I'll wait a year or two until everybody is selling it on ebay and then pick them up used for $5 - $10 rather then $35 - $50 new. Do you need office 2003? Would office 97 or 2000 work for you? Will you use the newest Photoshop features? or will a version (or 2 or 3) back be sufficient? And in some cases it's cheaper to pickup an old version for $20 bucks and then buy the upgrade to the newest verison. It's really a case of self control. If you need/want the latest then you will pay for it. If not then you can save quite a bit of money.
-G
One more reason to use Linux is its smarter memory management. It will only use swap when it runs out of RAM. Windows, however, will use some swap even if most of RAM is unused. As a result, Linux tends to be faster than Windows. Stability was an advantage of Linux, although there's less merit since the introduction of Windows 2000. The biggest advantage I see now is no need to worry about spyware.
Now let's discuss legal alternatives to pirating music, movies, and cable TV!
On software alternatives, I bet a lot of photoshop downloaders hardly need the package. Its a bit heavy for a quick crop, balance and resize isn't it!
The fact that the odds of being caught might be slim doesn't make it any less illegal.
However my point is that Microsoft are in every position to 'catch' you with the activation business, but clearly they are choosign not to as it would not be that smart to hit out on customer who are bending the rules but still actually buying off them, as oppose to those who are ripping them off completely.
I'll asume your OS are all licenced within the terms, but I'm tired of others saying they "have" to pirate windows as it costs £230 (XP Pro Retail) when they've just built the PC thus OEM eligible and they only probably mostly only need Home in any case -thus £60.
i don't agree...since the problem of spyware is the user that let applications install them, the problem is for the average user on windows and also on linux.
the user follows the instructions and install, if he doesn't know what is doing the program could do whatever...it's the same for me.
and yes, there aren't spyware for linux.........yet.
most people who install spyware and stuff deserve it half of the time due to stupidity and lack of common sence. :)
and to make spyware for linux is a hell lot harder to do than in windows along with the fact theres likely to only be 1 maybe 2 other people in the world with the same setup as you which will go on the same dodgy site as you :) so is relativley pointless... along with the whole linux concept?
FYI adobe and apple are also culprits
I hate PS, i had to wipe my hd because a legit copy trashed windows.
Gimp is much better and i can use its native file format on 2 pc's without wine or due boot.
The main games Quake 4 UT2K4 have company made ports but hardly anyone knows there there.
as to email i use outlook cus thunder bird doesn't work with hotmail.
office - OOo rules (this pc had star office which ive not got on with).
My current setup
main pc = XP, Firefox, gimp, desktop sidebar,PSPvideo9,paint.net and inkscape (svg program)
however pc 2 is full linux no duel boot or win.
It can though they don't admit it, you need to get an extension called WebMail from http://webmail.mozdev.org/. Outlook makes my eyes hurt
I have been using Fedora for the last few days for a project and have been surprised by how much it angers me. Things like installing programs, doesn't work like you think it would and half the time the program disapears to some remote folder and you get no link to it anywhere. Bit better using YUM. Suppose after a bit more use I will get to like it more, I need to change the way it looks though as the standard setup is butt ugly.
A friend has suggested Xandros, he has started using it and is now nearly weaned off of windows! Anyone else use it? Verdict?
I agree with Chunky, Linux kinda annoys me aswell as there is very limited documentational support and its VERY hard for the devs to test something on every distro.
SO some very hard to come by tools I need for my Degree won't run on FC4 but will run on FC3, using exactly the same packages.
don't call notes a database :P
it's insulting real db systems ;)
wow runs in cedaga fine from what i am told
also the apple query about how it bundles the software this is mainly a non issue because they are not seperate organisations
apple computers come with apple os you need the hardware to run the os this is quite a different package from requiring the oems to bundle the software exactly as it comes from ms only small areas were allowed to change so in this way they were using their hold on the software market to prevent oem companies from bundling something else
my method of licensing was through the action pack basically a multipack of licenses designed for small it companies with a variety of licenses its about 700au$ a year
then again important boxes of mine run *nix or linux because its needed and its what i consider secure
when you consider the documentation point of view looking at the majour LAMP components they are all very well documented with good support forums and most systems have companies that will support them
when it comes to my personal area of specialty wireless networking and security related to it the Free (as in speech) apps are THE best in the world there is not something that can compete with kismet and other apps that are nice to have when doing the work
while it is true OS stuff does have some ways to come on the desktop and it will get there. it already runs most of the internet and will probably continue running most of it
it runs all my servers except the exchange\mssql box i have to run for a stupid POS that doesnt like anything bar that combo >.<
on the desktop side nix\nux runs on my desktop dual booted my laptop the 3 other machines for the family and on my planed car cluster setup :)
also those who had the hotmail issues can i recommend another email provider :) gmail or even getting your own domain and just renting a shared server so much nicer and if you think before you act and get a good domain you will look a lot more professional in the future for job apps and the like
Sure I have a few domains of my own, and a gmail account but with the new mail.live.com it is the best webmail client I have used, and certainly better than the ropey efforts that will come with your hosting service. It's probably ok to use as an alternative to outlook express for some users.
From my experince any debian based system is best but mandriva is my os of choice.
As to documentation
1) have you installed it? there usually installed seperatly.
2) try writing some.
The arguments for pirating software are feeble attempts to justify wrongdoing, which is something we see all too often today. If you like the licensed version more than a free alternative, pay for it.
I use Open Office, AVG Free, GIMP and several other free items. Most of the good free software have several support options. One is through donations, a second is to upgrade to a commercial version, and the last is to become part of the development team. If I get to the point where I'm successful in business using the free stuff, I intend to donate.
Thanks to the user who posted info on Blender and Inkscape. My son recently became interested in animation, and I have had little luck finding reputable freeware. These items look good, and we will play with them.
Regarding the XP license upgrade issue, I'm a little confused. I replaced a motherboard a year ago, and had to re-load. Had to call MS, and when I told them I had put in a new MB, they gave me an activation number.
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