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Windows Vista - First Impressions

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Atomic 3rd August 2005, 16:18 Quote
The constant apple 'big-ups' are getting annoying, but other than that a great intro of the new bits :)
RotoSequence 3rd August 2005, 16:48 Quote
Now really Mr. Harris, is it REALLY necessary to enforce your position on things in literally every review on this site with editor's remarks? :|

Interesting review, and a nice summary of basically everything to be heard about Vista thus far. I hope it gets intersting; its going to take more than a fancier GUI and wierd features to make me upgrade from 2000.
<A88> 3rd August 2005, 17:03 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by FredsFriend
Surely if it takes external software to allow you to change anything but the basics, it isn't really customisable.
Well yes it is, because the files are still open to modification, you just need a decent bit of GUI software to know what you're doing. Who knows, they might offer skins through the OS, though it's unlikely. The fact is, you can get XP to look like practically anything, which is something I'm sure the OSX fanboys will have no comeback to (well, maybe "OSX just looks perfect)...

<A88>
Da Dego 3rd August 2005, 17:16 Quote
Good job, kna. I understood where you were coming from. For a lot of this stuff, windows IS behind the curve a bit...and it's nice to see it catching up. The creation of 3d space for a desktop has incredible possibilities. And Wil, I'm going to join the bandwagon saying "Mac is nice and all, but come on..." We usually slap Froggy around for this kind of fanboy crap. :)

As for the interface, I'm very excited about a number of things. First of all, it's interface is designed in MARKUP, people. This is like Desktop out of XML, which I have been dreaming about. How can you say something is not flexible when it's markup?! Just because we don't fully know how to implement it yet does not mean it is inflexible.

I hate the bloody start bar. I think I mentioned that before. I hate the very design of the start bar. They should honestly consider taking a cue from the better-than-mac interface of ObjectDock.

The search feature rules, but I think they should drop the "rating" thing. Not every folder needs a rating. And I don't want my GUI to be my music player and everything else, so it has no reason to rate things in its own database. I like the keywords. A lot. The virtual folders, as mentioned, are a great idea (about damn time), but somewhat poorly implemented. Largely because it doesn't index properly, so you end up indexing each time you access the folder, which takes forever. It's like running access instead of SQL server, with waaay too many entries.

The entire thing feels a bit like web-design, which someone mentioned. This isn't a bad thing to me. In fact, I really like it, because like web design, I can have control over my layout and my interface (eventually). Web interfaces, because of their customizeablilty, have become some of the most intuitive and/or creative user interfaces I have seen. Feels just a touch flat because of that, though...so I can see how that may not be to everyone's taste. I hope that the markup gets powerful enough to truly allow me to *create* on my desktop and my windows...maybe implement a bit of 3d to it to remove that web-page-y look. I'd like to see it be able to develop into a true space, with depth instead of just a z-index. That would help, and it shouldn't be all that difficult.

The idea of a truly modular registry is something that should have been implemented ages ago. AGES. I never understood why they didn't. It's nice to see that they did now.

My prelim $0.02.
FredsFriend 3rd August 2005, 17:27 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by <A88>
Well yes it is, because the files are still open to modification, you just need a decent bit of GUI software to know what you're doing. Who knows, they might offer skins through the OS, though it's unlikely. The fact is, you can get XP to look like practically anything, which is something I'm sure the OSX fanboys will have no comeback to (well, maybe "OSX just looks perfect)...

<A88>
Course there is always linux , x.org are working on hardware acceleration and kde and gnome can be made to look like anything, out of the box

I don't know why people keep slating the mac referances, in a quick scan i count 4, two of them in relating to a new feature that has already been implemented before in an apple OS. One is used to describe the sort of UI improvements, and the last is a subjective comment.
Correct me if i'm wrong but this is the second most popular mainstream desktop OS, surely you would expect comparrisons. Firefox is mentioned twice in referance to IE7, where are the flames over that?
Cheap Mod Wannabe 3rd August 2005, 17:40 Quote
Come on guys, like kna said already he can write whatever he wants. Who are we to tell him how to write and what to write. If we don't like it we can just go read at THG.

As for Vista... I wanna find out what memory usage it has..? (someone asked that already earlier)

Let's be friends =) Maccer's Linuxers... and other... let's go play around with parental controls and see how much can we f*** up games... I mean if you can change the way blood looks and etc... it's pretty fun... Maybe even make UT look like Mario....

I think this Beta release should be called Sandbox (quite popular term these days)...
Cause we all play around in it... we can do anything but nothing really works well. Let's wait till Microsoft finishes what they started and let's hope to see another Bluescreen in Bill Gate's presentation...

Life is too amusing to be bitching in forums ;)
TheAnimus 3rd August 2005, 17:43 Quote
x.org to be a threat need to pull their collective heads out of their collective arses and realise that 96.84% of users are using x.org locally, and make APIs acordingly not stupid sockets everywhere.

I had some arguement with someone about this before, he said his XP1800 could do 160,000 sockets a second, and what was i complaing about, as i explained it could do well over a million fast calls a second :(

Seriously guys, i like BT's view on a lot of reviews, but this one, is terrible.
Its not objective enough, i know you can write what you like, but BT has grown because you guys normally have such good quality. I know you didn't want to turn it into a sob story about WinFS and all the other exciting stuff been missing, and this OS been soo many years after XP. But it wasn't really enough of a look (and i know talking about the new markup, saftey in kernel mode, low downtime patching stuff dosen't do it for everyone).
Atomic 3rd August 2005, 17:45 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by :: kna ::
he can't help himself at having a little dig at Windows when the opportunity arises.
Well he is bit-tech.net's Apple fanboy...

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/1695/aboutwil3ov.gif

Either he'll take offence at it (not intended) or see the intended funny side...
FredsFriend 3rd August 2005, 17:48 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAnimus
x.org to be a threat need to pull their collective heads out of their collective arses and realise that 96.84% of users are using x.org locally, and make APIs acordingly not stupid sockets everywhere.

Are you thinking about XFree86?
The whole reason that x.org was created was because XFree86 had their heads up their arses. There is a more open development process to x.org than there ever was for XFree86.
TheAnimus 3rd August 2005, 17:51 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by FredsFriend
Are you thinking about XFree86?
The whole reason that x.org was created was because XFree86 had their heads up their arses. There is a more open development process to x.org than there ever was for XFree86.
the API interface manner is still a hot topic. I really don't see why, with todays hardware for most users using a remote machine dosen't make sense (but it was an XFree86 person i was arguing with, x.org wasn't around then... and i say person, i think he might of checked the mailing list for them, but when the underlings are that..... this is going way Off topic!)
FredsFriend 3rd August 2005, 17:55 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAnimus
this is going way Off topic!
Yeh

*Topic course correction*
I spose however much any of us bash or praise it, we will all still install it and have a dam good play. After all it will be a new bit of kit.
quadmodz 3rd August 2005, 18:14 Quote
I think this software is a GOD MODE like. LOL. Too much high on the requirements. BUt its cool! ;)

anyway where i can get this Windows Vista?
Fusen 3rd August 2005, 18:17 Quote
can't seem to find any article about vista which isn't doused in apple fanboy comments.
<A88> 3rd August 2005, 18:19 Quote
Your local software store, Holiday 2006 :)

<A88>
quadmodz 3rd August 2005, 18:27 Quote
I think that OS will arrive next year here in the Philippines. LOL
:: kna :: 3rd August 2005, 18:39 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by theanimus
Seriously guys, i like BT's view on a lot of reviews, but this one, is terrible.
You have Dyslexia, which is why you can't spell. I'm an opinionated, free-thinking, unbiased, arrogant, outside-the-box tech writer and columnist, that's why I write articles which don't just regurgitate PR hype but instead freeform out of my head onto the page.

You don't expect people to hassle you about your spelling, I don't expect you to hassle me about my writing style. End of conversation.

Like you say, back on topic.
ufk 3rd August 2005, 19:08 Quote
The question is will microsoft ever finish it or are windows users still going to be stuck with an infinite procession of updates as we are at the moment?

Are they still going to imbed internet explorer and wmp as part of the OS or is it going to be uninstallable? (properly!! not like in xp where it just removes the links)

Just the first of many questions that are no doubt going to come up, and as for the apple fanboy comments, so what? osx is something that windows can aspire to in terms of looks especially , why do you thing som many people try and make xp look like osx?

I dont own a mac, can't afford one but i have occasional use of an ibook and i must admit, the interface is slick but it takes a while to get used to where things are
charl3s_fatal1ty 3rd August 2005, 19:17 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomic
Well he is bit-tech.net's Apple fanboy...

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/1695/aboutwil3ov.gif

Either he'll take offence at it (not intended) or see the intended funny side...

That gives a whole new meaning to eyeglasses/iGlasses!!
Cheap Mod Wannabe 3rd August 2005, 19:27 Quote
I am sorry <A88> but what is software store.... is this like some new p2p software or something..... Damn I was playing games too much no I got behind the bleeding edge news.... sad... =[

I heard that after few days the beta should go public... is it true?
Skutbag 3rd August 2005, 19:45 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by BioSniper
I also feel that for new users it'll actually be HARDER to use than the old interfaces, they have tried to make it more informative but what they have done at the same time imo is put far too much on screen and it will confuse the hell out of any new user.

I agree totally. Granted, I know sweet fa about software development, but I think an idea would be to have a basic and advanced desktop that you could switch between. Like how in XP there is an option to have control panel sorted by the task you want, or the full list of tools for people who know what there up to.

In short, information scares normal people.
Sparrowhawk 3rd August 2005, 21:33 Quote
First impressions will be my last and only impressions, if Microsoft doesn't get their collective heads out of their arses and stop planning to cripple everything.
L'Inq
Da Dego 4th August 2005, 00:28 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by unluckyfriedkitten
The question is will microsoft ever finish it or are windows users still going to be stuck with an infinite procession of updates as we are at the moment?
Unfortunately, you can't get around this. And if they ever did, I wouldn't buy their product anymore.

The bulk of upgrades are security patches or genuine improvements that were not technologically feasible when the first incarnation came out. So, to not update means that they're not fixing security. Or, it means they're not delivering new technology as new tech becomes available.

The alternative to this is, of course, that they could just not make an update or release a new DX or WMP or IE until they release the next OS. Do YOU want to update your OS that frequently? We'd be buying new versions each year, like Autocad or photoshop, for minor functional improvements. See kna's article called "Anti-upgraders Unite..."

Frankly, I much prefer that it's win2k, winXP, and then it's been another 4 years until Longh...vista. ;) That means they've made something that can function for that long, keep up with that much technology, over the course of those years. I know my software has improved, my games have gotten prettier, and I haven't had to pay a penny more for my Windows to make sure that I can display it.
seanblee 4th August 2005, 03:33 Quote
I'm sorry, maybe it's me, but you seem to have totally missed the point of this beta release. This is a developer-targeted beta, it's not intended for the masses because most of the Longhorn functionality is missing. The purpose of this release is so that developers can see what stage the APIs are at at present, and in some cases start developing against the finalised APIs like Avalon and Indigo.

The user interface as you're seeing it is effectively a modded version of Windows XP's Explorer/Luna interface, it's not the final Aero interface in the slightest, so I'm not sure what the purpose of a comparative review of it is?
:: kna :: 4th August 2005, 08:21 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanblee
The user interface as you're seeing it is effectively a modded version of Windows XP's Explorer/Luna interface, it's not the final Aero interface in the slightest, so I'm not sure what the purpose of a comparative review of it is?
*takes deep breath, counts to ten*

This isn't a comparative review, as I explained to TheAnimus. This is my first impressions of the Beta release, with a view to explaining the look and feel, what stage it's at and what to expect.. it's impossible to review an unfinished product, which is why this is just a first look.
WilHarris 4th August 2005, 09:35 Quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanblee
I'm sorry, maybe it's me, but you seem to have totally missed the point of this beta release. This is a developer-targeted beta, it's not intended for the masses because most of the Longhorn functionality is missing. The purpose of this release is so that developers can see what stage the APIs are at at present, and in some cases start developing against the finalised APIs like Avalon and Indigo.

The user interface as you're seeing it is effectively a modded version of Windows XP's Explorer/Luna interface, it's not the final Aero interface in the slightest, so I'm not sure what the purpose of a comparative review of it is?

Dude, did you even read the second paragraph?
Quote:

The drive for this first release is clear. This isn't a showcase of the new features to you and I, this is the starter course for many months of development work from partners and application designers. Many of the new and exciting features which interest the users are missing from this release and there is far more emphasis on getting the under-the-bonnet revamping out there to the people writing the software for it.

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